A BMW driver's take on the IS
12-17-05, 06:45 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by AmethySC
I think the Bimmer boards will start to talk more about Lexus( & other competitors) if more people that just bought a Lexus go over there to post why they bought a Lexus & not a BMW 
It seems at least some of the discussions/comparisons here are started by people like that ^^^
It seems at least some of the discussions/comparisons here are started by people like that ^^^
Once more IS' are out there, there will prolly be more debate on BMW boards since what I've experienced so far is nice.
12-18-05, 03:41 PM
#32
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First off, by no means did I mean to spark a "this car is better than that car" debate. While I'm a longtime BMW driver, I don't just plunk my money down on a BMW when I'm looking for a new car because it's a BMW. I think many people fall in love with the badge on the front of the car, and not the car itself. If I love a car and how it drives, I don't care if it says Kia on the front..... okay, yeah... maybe not KIA.
GETTING BACK TO THE TEST DRIVE(S)
Yesterday I was able to test drive both the IS and the 3-series back-to-back. This time I took another car afficionado with me. I felt I needed another opinion as I would probably have a bias towards BMW (see initial post).
THE IS350
We arrived at the Lexus dealer and asked to drive an IS. We sat with the salesman for a bit and I told him what kind of car I was looking for. That is, a fun to drive car that handles well and accelerates quickly. He immediately ruled out the IS250 and said that if I were comparing the IS to a 330ix I'd certainly opt for the BMW. Like mentioned earlier in this thread, he suggested dedicated snow tires. Actually, he said they would be a necessity.
Out came the IS350 (a base model with a stunningly beautiful Sterling interior!)...
The test drive started out with me snapping the necks of all 3 occupants. No, not serial killer style... I just didn't expect the car to leap as quickly as it did. It was obvious from the word GO that this car had power. Starting off, we headed down a bumpy back road and the IS soaked up every bump. At the first stop sign I punched the gas while making a right. Traction control kicked in, but no VDIM. A mini straightaway let me open the car up a bit, only to test its stopping power which was exceptional. So far this car was performing beyond my expectations.
Heading onto the highway was a large "S" shaped ramp, with the second curve covered with water from the melting snow. I carved through these turns at 60mph with ease. There was much more body roll than that of my current 328i, but I suspect the sport package which sits 1/2" lower and on larger rims would eliminate some of it.
Once we jumped on the highway, I found another meaning behind "fun to drive". This thing takes off like a rocket. Already cruising at 70mph, I hit the gas again and in a flash we were up to 85. Even as I backed off the gas, I still had the feeling that this car wanted to go even faster. Feeling more confident with the car, I took the exit ramp a bit more aggressive than the entry ramp. I was more than impressed at the handling, and can honestly say I have no idea why VDIM is so maligned. It didn't take over once, and I really pushed the car.
As I mentioned above, the interior of the Lexus is second to none. The technology, the comfort (oh, those air cooled seats!), and the layout are very well thought out.
I must say that this was one of the best test drives I've ever done. The salesman was always urging the both of us to push the car a bit more, and he really knew every technical aspect of the IS. I've often found that I go into a dealership knowing more about the car than the salesman, so this was quite refreshing.
After leaving the Lexus dealer I was convinced I found my car. The fact that they had a Matador Red Mica with Sterling interior, and fully loaded (with the exception of the ML audio) in stock was also very tempting. I could seriously have the car by Wednesday. My friend felt the same way. He absolutely loved the IS350 and was also surprised at it's power & handling (he drives an Audi A4).
Next we headed to the BMW dealer... which I'll post about later.
GETTING BACK TO THE TEST DRIVE(S)
Yesterday I was able to test drive both the IS and the 3-series back-to-back. This time I took another car afficionado with me. I felt I needed another opinion as I would probably have a bias towards BMW (see initial post).
THE IS350
We arrived at the Lexus dealer and asked to drive an IS. We sat with the salesman for a bit and I told him what kind of car I was looking for. That is, a fun to drive car that handles well and accelerates quickly. He immediately ruled out the IS250 and said that if I were comparing the IS to a 330ix I'd certainly opt for the BMW. Like mentioned earlier in this thread, he suggested dedicated snow tires. Actually, he said they would be a necessity.
Out came the IS350 (a base model with a stunningly beautiful Sterling interior!)...
The test drive started out with me snapping the necks of all 3 occupants. No, not serial killer style... I just didn't expect the car to leap as quickly as it did. It was obvious from the word GO that this car had power. Starting off, we headed down a bumpy back road and the IS soaked up every bump. At the first stop sign I punched the gas while making a right. Traction control kicked in, but no VDIM. A mini straightaway let me open the car up a bit, only to test its stopping power which was exceptional. So far this car was performing beyond my expectations.
Heading onto the highway was a large "S" shaped ramp, with the second curve covered with water from the melting snow. I carved through these turns at 60mph with ease. There was much more body roll than that of my current 328i, but I suspect the sport package which sits 1/2" lower and on larger rims would eliminate some of it.
Once we jumped on the highway, I found another meaning behind "fun to drive". This thing takes off like a rocket. Already cruising at 70mph, I hit the gas again and in a flash we were up to 85. Even as I backed off the gas, I still had the feeling that this car wanted to go even faster. Feeling more confident with the car, I took the exit ramp a bit more aggressive than the entry ramp. I was more than impressed at the handling, and can honestly say I have no idea why VDIM is so maligned. It didn't take over once, and I really pushed the car.
As I mentioned above, the interior of the Lexus is second to none. The technology, the comfort (oh, those air cooled seats!), and the layout are very well thought out.
I must say that this was one of the best test drives I've ever done. The salesman was always urging the both of us to push the car a bit more, and he really knew every technical aspect of the IS. I've often found that I go into a dealership knowing more about the car than the salesman, so this was quite refreshing.
After leaving the Lexus dealer I was convinced I found my car. The fact that they had a Matador Red Mica with Sterling interior, and fully loaded (with the exception of the ML audio) in stock was also very tempting. I could seriously have the car by Wednesday. My friend felt the same way. He absolutely loved the IS350 and was also surprised at it's power & handling (he drives an Audi A4).
Next we headed to the BMW dealer... which I'll post about later.
12-18-05, 04:39 PM
#33
Another nice write up and can't wait to hear your review on the BMW next.
Thanks for posting your test car review of the IS350. I enjoyed reading that.
Thanks for posting your test car review of the IS350. I enjoyed reading that.
12-18-05, 07:05 PM
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She bought the IS250AWD
My wife and I went back and forth between the IS250AWD and the BMW325xi for a month. Test drove back to back several times and finally chose the IS 1 month ago. I stayed objective and was partial to the handling and tightness of the Bimmer. She currently and has been driving a 98 Honda Accord Ex V6 Vetec Coupe. This will be her commute car and decided to go with it for the following reasons:
- Styling both inside and out vs BMW 325 although BMW exterior is also attractive
-Luxrious interior and softer leather seating, vs stiffer and boring in the Bimmer
-poor placment of BMW cupholders, too far for driver to reach
-stupid looking Fin on bimmer roof deck
-Loves the SMG exterior color and the sterling color interior combo
-Loves the voice activated NAV, thought the I drive system was useless and too difficult to use
She ordered the IS250AWD, SMG/Sterling, LUX, NAV, paid $38,325 with a $500 discount.
What finally stole her heart toward the Lexus was the extremely professional sales lady at our Minneapolis dealership. We are going into our 2nd month in wait for this car and everyday she asks me if the car has arrived at the dealer yet. About ready to buy a case of Midol for her Christmas present.
- Styling both inside and out vs BMW 325 although BMW exterior is also attractive
-Luxrious interior and softer leather seating, vs stiffer and boring in the Bimmer
-poor placment of BMW cupholders, too far for driver to reach
-stupid looking Fin on bimmer roof deck
-Loves the SMG exterior color and the sterling color interior combo
-Loves the voice activated NAV, thought the I drive system was useless and too difficult to use
She ordered the IS250AWD, SMG/Sterling, LUX, NAV, paid $38,325 with a $500 discount.
What finally stole her heart toward the Lexus was the extremely professional sales lady at our Minneapolis dealership. We are going into our 2nd month in wait for this car and everyday she asks me if the car has arrived at the dealer yet. About ready to buy a case of Midol for her Christmas present.
12-18-05, 08:44 PM
#35
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Onto the BMW review. In this case, it was a 330ix with iDrive, and premium package.
I'll start with the interior, which based on the pictures I expected to be very bland. There is certainly a minimal approach to German styling, especially in comparison to the Japanese designed Lexus. The placement of the navigation screen (iDrive) is in a much better location versus the Lexus. By this I mean it sits on the same plane as the instrument cluster, and your eyes only have to move horizontal to view the screen. That being said, the screen is much smaller than the one on the Lexus. Both systems have a voice activated feature operated via a steering wheel button (Ironically, both use the same icon to denote the button). In this case, the Lexus navigation is much more comprehensive, and easier to use. Still, I found the BMW's iDrive to be very easy to use, contrary to published reports.
Comfort wise, the IS wins again. The seats in the BMW were definately an improvement over that of my current 328, but the IS was much softer and supportive. The model I drove did not include the sport package, which has the more comfortable seats, but these were more than adequate. Sitting in the rear of the 330ix is much easier than in the IS. I am 6'1" and I had plenty of room to sit in the back of the BMW, whereas the IS was a bit more cramped. One nice feature the 330ix had was rear vents with separate fan controls -- this is a nice addition that my 3 year old son would certainly benefit by.
Onto the test drive.
Unlike the IS, a keyless key is inserted into a rectangular slot in the dash. When this key is inserted, the push start is operational. The optional $500 comfort access allows the same operation of the start button, as well as unlocking of the doors as the IS. Just keep the key in your pocket and push to start.
Starting off, this car has much more power than my 328. It didn't have as much jump off of the line as the IS350 though, but still had tremendous get up and go. Our BMW salesman had us take the car through an industrial park as it had many twists and turns. If the Lexus could be described as smooth and silky through the turns, the BMW could be described as aggressive and responsive. Similarly, as the IS seemed as if it wanted to go faster on the highway, the BMW was begging for more through the turns.
The sensory feel of the car was also different. In the IS there is a gentle purr of the engine as you drive, and push the car. There is a gentle, yet aggressive sway as the IS cuts through the turns. In the 330ix, the gentle vibration in the steering wheel lets one feel the engine's power. It also twists and turns with little body roll. In this case, at least as far as I'm concerned, the BMW has a distinct advantage.
With the tactile feedback of the BMW also comes a drawback. Where the IS350 soaks up the bumps in the road, the BMW lets you know they're there. My current 328 includes the sport package (stiffer suspension), so the bumps are even more pronounced than in the current 330ix I drove. The IS has a definate advantage here.
Jumping on the highway the BMW quickly revs through all 6 gears and brings you to top speed almost as fast as the IS350. Not knowing the 0-60 stats, I'd venture a guess that the IS350 is faster, but not by much. The 330ix definately has some power - it's just applied in a different way. Again, the IS350 gets you to top speed in a silky smooth manner, where the BMW is, for lack of a better term, more athletic. All in all, the IS350 is much more fun to drive at highway speeds.
Regarding the BMW salesman... he was polite, and friendly. When I told him I had just driven the IS350 he looked at me as if I just said a Toyota Camry. He even referred to Lexus as a "Japanese Cadillac". My first thought was that he should go check out his competition before he makes such statements. The IS is definately a threat to the 3-series' supremacy... I am living proof of that.
CONCLUSION
Both of these cars are exceptional machines. For anyone to discredit the other probably just means that they've never DRIVEN the other with an open mind. For me, it's almost a coin-flip. I absolutely LOVE the comfort level and technology in the IS. Pushing down on the gas pedal is pure exhilaration, and the reports of VDIM destroying the ability to drive the car are utter nonsense. In the 330xi it's all about FEELING the car drive. It's about power and simplicity.
For me, it comes down to ONE factor. I want to buy the IS350... TODAY. But I want to buy the IS350 in an AWD variety. I know snow tires will make the IS a better driving car in the snow, but it's still a RWD car with 300hp. The 330ix offers a lot of power, and I love the drive it gives me. It is also AWD, which makes my wife very happy.
In the end, I've decided to go with the BMW 330ix for the primary reason that it offers a lot of power, and great handling in an AWD package. The rear seat being bigger is also a benefit as my son's car seat will fit nicer in the back (Yeah, I know... a new sports car with a carseat). Actually, it will soon be 2 car seats... but that's another story.
I managed to negotiate the car at $500 over dealer invoice, which is a phenomenal deal. This puts the car only a couple thousand over that of the IS350. It is also a 3 year lease, which contributed to my decision. Should Lexus put the badge AWD on the back of the IS350, I'll certainly be a former BMW driver.
Seriously, it is THAT close between the two cars. BMW should definately be concerned with the IS350, as I expect it to be the car which will dethrone the 3 (if only the magazines have the guts to write such an article). I suspect that many of you are just shaking your heads right now at my decision, but my guess is that many of you who currently have the IS350 may not be in a climate where you are subject to snow.
Hopefully my review on both cars will help someone else out. Under no circumstances can you go wrong with either car. My situation just leaned SLIGHTLY more to the 330ix... but it was a VERY tough decision.
I'll start with the interior, which based on the pictures I expected to be very bland. There is certainly a minimal approach to German styling, especially in comparison to the Japanese designed Lexus. The placement of the navigation screen (iDrive) is in a much better location versus the Lexus. By this I mean it sits on the same plane as the instrument cluster, and your eyes only have to move horizontal to view the screen. That being said, the screen is much smaller than the one on the Lexus. Both systems have a voice activated feature operated via a steering wheel button (Ironically, both use the same icon to denote the button). In this case, the Lexus navigation is much more comprehensive, and easier to use. Still, I found the BMW's iDrive to be very easy to use, contrary to published reports.
Comfort wise, the IS wins again. The seats in the BMW were definately an improvement over that of my current 328, but the IS was much softer and supportive. The model I drove did not include the sport package, which has the more comfortable seats, but these were more than adequate. Sitting in the rear of the 330ix is much easier than in the IS. I am 6'1" and I had plenty of room to sit in the back of the BMW, whereas the IS was a bit more cramped. One nice feature the 330ix had was rear vents with separate fan controls -- this is a nice addition that my 3 year old son would certainly benefit by.
Onto the test drive.
Unlike the IS, a keyless key is inserted into a rectangular slot in the dash. When this key is inserted, the push start is operational. The optional $500 comfort access allows the same operation of the start button, as well as unlocking of the doors as the IS. Just keep the key in your pocket and push to start.
Starting off, this car has much more power than my 328. It didn't have as much jump off of the line as the IS350 though, but still had tremendous get up and go. Our BMW salesman had us take the car through an industrial park as it had many twists and turns. If the Lexus could be described as smooth and silky through the turns, the BMW could be described as aggressive and responsive. Similarly, as the IS seemed as if it wanted to go faster on the highway, the BMW was begging for more through the turns.
The sensory feel of the car was also different. In the IS there is a gentle purr of the engine as you drive, and push the car. There is a gentle, yet aggressive sway as the IS cuts through the turns. In the 330ix, the gentle vibration in the steering wheel lets one feel the engine's power. It also twists and turns with little body roll. In this case, at least as far as I'm concerned, the BMW has a distinct advantage.
With the tactile feedback of the BMW also comes a drawback. Where the IS350 soaks up the bumps in the road, the BMW lets you know they're there. My current 328 includes the sport package (stiffer suspension), so the bumps are even more pronounced than in the current 330ix I drove. The IS has a definate advantage here.
Jumping on the highway the BMW quickly revs through all 6 gears and brings you to top speed almost as fast as the IS350. Not knowing the 0-60 stats, I'd venture a guess that the IS350 is faster, but not by much. The 330ix definately has some power - it's just applied in a different way. Again, the IS350 gets you to top speed in a silky smooth manner, where the BMW is, for lack of a better term, more athletic. All in all, the IS350 is much more fun to drive at highway speeds.
Regarding the BMW salesman... he was polite, and friendly. When I told him I had just driven the IS350 he looked at me as if I just said a Toyota Camry. He even referred to Lexus as a "Japanese Cadillac". My first thought was that he should go check out his competition before he makes such statements. The IS is definately a threat to the 3-series' supremacy... I am living proof of that.
CONCLUSION
Both of these cars are exceptional machines. For anyone to discredit the other probably just means that they've never DRIVEN the other with an open mind. For me, it's almost a coin-flip. I absolutely LOVE the comfort level and technology in the IS. Pushing down on the gas pedal is pure exhilaration, and the reports of VDIM destroying the ability to drive the car are utter nonsense. In the 330xi it's all about FEELING the car drive. It's about power and simplicity.
For me, it comes down to ONE factor. I want to buy the IS350... TODAY. But I want to buy the IS350 in an AWD variety. I know snow tires will make the IS a better driving car in the snow, but it's still a RWD car with 300hp. The 330ix offers a lot of power, and I love the drive it gives me. It is also AWD, which makes my wife very happy.
In the end, I've decided to go with the BMW 330ix for the primary reason that it offers a lot of power, and great handling in an AWD package. The rear seat being bigger is also a benefit as my son's car seat will fit nicer in the back (Yeah, I know... a new sports car with a carseat). Actually, it will soon be 2 car seats... but that's another story.
I managed to negotiate the car at $500 over dealer invoice, which is a phenomenal deal. This puts the car only a couple thousand over that of the IS350. It is also a 3 year lease, which contributed to my decision. Should Lexus put the badge AWD on the back of the IS350, I'll certainly be a former BMW driver.
Seriously, it is THAT close between the two cars. BMW should definately be concerned with the IS350, as I expect it to be the car which will dethrone the 3 (if only the magazines have the guts to write such an article). I suspect that many of you are just shaking your heads right now at my decision, but my guess is that many of you who currently have the IS350 may not be in a climate where you are subject to snow.
Hopefully my review on both cars will help someone else out. Under no circumstances can you go wrong with either car. My situation just leaned SLIGHTLY more to the 330ix... but it was a VERY tough decision.
12-19-05, 09:04 AM
#37
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I suppose that now the accolades given to my initial post will be taken away.... lol... But hey, I was completely honest here. I'm sure I'll have some buyers remorse when I see that IS350 in Matador Red Mica pull up next to me.
Hopefully there will be AWD in the IS when my 3-years is up. Even better would be a job relocation to a warm climate.
Hopefully there will be AWD in the IS when my 3-years is up. Even better would be a job relocation to a warm climate.
12-19-05, 09:11 AM
#38
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Lexus will lose some potential customers like yourself without as many transmission/drivetrain/engine options as the 3 series, I certainly won't hold that against you, enjoy your new car 
& congratulations 
& congratulations
12-19-05, 10:07 AM
#39
Originally Posted by eleven24
I suppose that now the accolades given to my initial post will be taken away.... lol... But hey, I was completely honest here. I'm sure I'll have some buyers remorse when I see that IS350 in Matador Red Mica pull up next to me.
Hopefully there will be AWD in the IS when my 3-years is up. Even better would be a job relocation to a warm climate.
Hopefully there will be AWD in the IS when my 3-years is up. Even better would be a job relocation to a warm climate.
I fully understand your decision, and I have the same "beef" with lexus for not offering AWD in GS430 and IS350. They will lose a lot of sales to BMW and Infiniti, and rumor is Acura is planning to inject their SH-AWD system into TL and TSX, so Lexus better shape up.
12-19-05, 10:16 AM
#40
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Congratulations on your new car, eleven24!
I'm definitely inclined to agree with you -- you really can't go wrong with either choice. They're both fantastic sedans, and it really does sound like the BMW is the better choice for you if snow is a major concern. (If you're willing to make the performance tradeoff from the 330i to the 330xi, you've already staked out your priorities pretty firmly, so it's not a big surprise.) Hopefully Lexus will start offering some more transmission and drivetrain options with the IS once they get a feel for how well the current models will do -- and hopefully we'll see more reviewers warm to the car as people adopt it and the "BMW aura" fades a little.
Very glad you dropped by to share your thoughts, and I definitely wish you many miles of enjoyment in your new 330!
I'm definitely inclined to agree with you -- you really can't go wrong with either choice. They're both fantastic sedans, and it really does sound like the BMW is the better choice for you if snow is a major concern. (If you're willing to make the performance tradeoff from the 330i to the 330xi, you've already staked out your priorities pretty firmly, so it's not a big surprise.) Hopefully Lexus will start offering some more transmission and drivetrain options with the IS once they get a feel for how well the current models will do -- and hopefully we'll see more reviewers warm to the car as people adopt it and the "BMW aura" fades a little.
Very glad you dropped by to share your thoughts, and I definitely wish you many miles of enjoyment in your new 330!
12-19-05, 10:24 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by Och
eleven24, thank you very much for taking the time to share your progress and rationale! Great writeup
12-19-05, 10:26 AM
#43
A good comprehensive look. Thanks!
Originally Posted by eleven24
In the end, I've decided to go with the BMW 330ix for the primary reason that it offers a lot of power, and great handling in an AWD package.
I think that there are a lot of issues that Lexus has yet to address. People have discussed their concerns with manual trannys, safety features and controls, 2/4-wheel drive configurations, and the such. Your perspective in test driving the two cars illuminated these concerns in a positive light.
Good luck and enjoy your car. Hopefully, by the time your lease is up, Lexus will have new offerings that will satisfy your needs.
12-19-05, 10:33 AM
#44
Originally Posted by eleven24
.
In the end, I've decided to go with the BMW 330ix for the primary reason that it offers a lot of power, and great handling in an AWD package. The rear seat being bigger is also a benefit as my son's car seat will fit nicer in the back (Yeah, I know... a new sports car with a carseat). Actually, it will soon be 2 car seats... but that's another story.
I managed to negotiate the car at $500 over dealer invoice, which is a phenomenal deal. This puts the car only a couple thousand over that of the IS350. It is also a 3 year lease, which contributed to my decision. Should Lexus put the badge AWD on the back of the IS350, I'll certainly be a former BMW driver.
Seriously, it is THAT close between the two cars. BMW should definately be concerned with the IS350, as I expect it to be the car which will dethrone the 3 (if only the magazines have the guts to write such an article). I suspect that many of you are just shaking your heads right now at my decision, but my guess is that many of you who currently have the IS350 may not be in a climate where you are subject to snow.
Hopefully my review on both cars will help someone else out. Under no circumstances can you go wrong with either car. My situation just leaned SLIGHTLY more to the 330ix... but it was a VERY tough decision.
In the end, I've decided to go with the BMW 330ix for the primary reason that it offers a lot of power, and great handling in an AWD package. The rear seat being bigger is also a benefit as my son's car seat will fit nicer in the back (Yeah, I know... a new sports car with a carseat). Actually, it will soon be 2 car seats... but that's another story.
I managed to negotiate the car at $500 over dealer invoice, which is a phenomenal deal. This puts the car only a couple thousand over that of the IS350. It is also a 3 year lease, which contributed to my decision. Should Lexus put the badge AWD on the back of the IS350, I'll certainly be a former BMW driver.
Seriously, it is THAT close between the two cars. BMW should definately be concerned with the IS350, as I expect it to be the car which will dethrone the 3 (if only the magazines have the guts to write such an article). I suspect that many of you are just shaking your heads right now at my decision, but my guess is that many of you who currently have the IS350 may not be in a climate where you are subject to snow.
Hopefully my review on both cars will help someone else out. Under no circumstances can you go wrong with either car. My situation just leaned SLIGHTLY more to the 330ix... but it was a VERY tough decision.
Not sure which version of 335i US will get. (new 3.5 L6 or 3.0 TT, but both will have at least 310HP with about 280 lb-ft of torque).
12-19-05, 10:42 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by eleven24
I suppose that now the accolades given to my initial post will be taken away.... lol... But hey, I was completely honest here. I'm sure I'll have some buyers remorse when I see that IS350 in Matador Red Mica pull up next to me.
Hopefully there will be AWD in the IS when my 3-years is up. Even better would be a job relocation to a warm climate.
Hopefully there will be AWD in the IS when my 3-years is up. Even better would be a job relocation to a warm climate.