sha4000

iTrader: (1)

lexus is fine just doing what they do

jlin101

If you recall 15 years ago when Toyota and Nissan started Lexus and Infiniti, they imitated the two German makers. Lexus copied Mercedez (luxurious and conservative), and Infiniti went after BMW (sporty and adventurous). Over the years the distinctions blurred, as Lexus started adding more performance to luxury, and Infiniti the opposite (until the current G and M series, that is). It's not that Toyota/Lexus couldn't build a great handling car, it's what they think the majority of their buyers would desire and demand. Sales number have indicated that they are indeed quite successful, with the exception of IS300 (nimble and fun to drive, but tanked in sales).

OUMalibu

That's a good point about Lexus and Infiniti starting off on opposite ends of the luxury/sports spectrum, but it's also obvious that Lexus has really been targeting BMW of late, not MB.

I'm not complaining... As stated, when I get my IS it will be my 4th Lexus in a row. But if they could do a little better job in the handling department, they would convert more BMW drivers.

meta1

That's it in a nutshell. They have a formula that works. We a small community that make up a very small percentage of the Lexus market. I think the current IS350 handles very well compared to a BMW 330. If it takes a couple of drivers on a closed track pushing the cars to there limits to say the BMW handled slightly better, I wouldn't feel bad at all. I look at the trade off that the current IS250/350 provides in real world driving. We keep talking about BMW's and how much better they handle. The majority of people who own a Bimmer couldn't tell you squat about the car. What it's strong points are, etc. Most of those owners buy because of the nameplate. Im not mad at that. They are regular driving folks like most of the population. They aren't carrening around tracks. Lexus is still spreading it's wings across the globe. So if it handles 9/10 of what a BMW limits are. I will take the trade off. And I think most daily drivers will too. Above average handling, reliability, value, fit & finish, service, in most cases.

Zephyr

iTrader: (1)

Go around and ask random people what they think about Lexus. Most hear Lexus and say "oh luxury and comfort" because Lexus is considered a luxury brand. Most people in the world are not car nuts, they just like to own a car that can take them places. And like what some people already mention, we are just a tiny percentage of the market. Lexus did a great job on this car, comfort and styling, I don't think they need to go out of their way to please a tiny specific market with one of their more affordable models, thats why we have aftermarket companies.

izzyracer

Let me see, mild traffic, passing one car from the other, left to right.

carenthus

Why doesn't Lexus build better handling cars?

You ask for it you got it. The car will be coming out soon. It's the LF-A. With the LF-A introduction, Lexus will have three sport luxury cars (IS, GS, LF-A) to choose from.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

I don't think it's about ride comfort. I think the IS cannot handle as well as a BMW because of its safety features such as VDIM. I believe that Lexus decided long ago that "Safety" is far more of a luxury than "Performance and Handling." That is why although they make performance cars, they still add computer/electronically-controlled handling components that will make them inferior to BMW and the such. Safety is something that Lexus can market (and they are on top of the game with safety), whereas performance and handling can be taken by anyone -- even Honda Civic owners.

I think that Lexus has made an excellent commitment to safety (in fact, a little too much of a commitment). By doing so, they have sacrificed handling in the performance department, and has covered it up by increasing the HP. Perhaps they can add an off button for these functions in the near future, but is unlikely as discussed on previous posts with Lexus engineers.

GOD FORBID THEY ADD THE VDIM SYSTEM TO THE LF-A!!!

We'll see how Lexus addresses this concern in the future. As for now, I think that the GS and IS will always have the safety controls such as VSC and VDIM, and will always compromise handling for safety.

mkaresh

You could as well ask this same question about any manufacturer. Porsche and Mazda both put out some very fine handling sports cars, but only BMW puts out a whole line of top-handling vehicles.

If you haven't driven a new 3 with sport package (but not necessarily the active steering) along a challenging road, then you should. Except that this might raise your expectations of how a car should handle, and make you dissatisfied with anything else. I've personally had trouble getting excited about past 3-Series. You really had to push them to enjoy them, and this wasn't often possible on public roads. But I find the new 3's handling very enjoyable even when far from the car's limits.

One problem with relying on the aftermarket is that I'm personally not aware of any aftermarket steering systems, and steering is a HUGE part of the equation that very few companies get right. Similarly, the manual shift mechanism in the new IS 250 feels like junk. How hard is it to get a shifter right after decades of engineering the things? Apparently pretty hard.

The answer to this question likely has to do with how organizations work. I wrote a Ph.D. thesis on the topic based on time spent inside an auto manufacturer. Steering and handling quality involve a lot of intangibles. Most organizations have a lot of trouble working with intangibles, because you've got to have experts and then--this is the hard part--trust these experts enough to put time and money into doing what they say to do, just because they're the experts and they say to do it.

Most organizations are more comfortable just dealing with "facts" and metrics. And you can't really describe steering feel in numbers. I'm sure many manufacturers have tried, but you really can't.

OUMalibu

That's a very interesting perspective, mkaresh.

Emphasis and expertise in handling dynamics probably needs to be cultural... Engineers with a passion for it and that spend decades refining the subtleties. It seems Lexus has only made this a priority of late and the IS is step in the right direction and I'm sure they'll continue to make gains in this area.


I've owned Bimmers and I've really loved the way they handled and they have some great engines. Other than that, I strongly prefer Lexus.

lovemytrx

How many people are actually going to push their cars to the limits where there would be a noticeable difference in the handling between BMW and LEXUS?

The only place that I could think of where a person would appreciate the edge in handling would be at a roadcourse or autox, otherwise its just not necessary, other than bragging rights.

Of course bragging rights do add up to sales, but Lexus has their own bragging rights since the IS is so much faster in a straight line than the 330i.

Gojirra99

Lexus have a few more bragging rights over the BMW than just that . . . I won't mind having either, both great choices

BradmanOH

I am a recent convert from a BMW330xi and I think many people are missing an important part of the equation. Both of my previous BMW's were in the shop numerous times, sometimes for major issues. My first BMW left my wife and I stranded at an Arby's drive through when the battery shorted out. Talk about a fun time, pushing your new car into a parking spot while the entire resturant watches. . . . Whee! When I picked up the car the next day they said that some of the cars had defective batteries and mine must have been one of them. Then the transmission started popping out of 2nd, after a new transmission they again said that they had found some cars had some incorrect linkages. That first car was in the shop 13 times in 24 months. I jumped over to Audi and didn't have any issues but I didn't like the "feel" of the car, especially at higher speeds. I returned to BMW with the 330xi and I only had a few issues but I just didn't enjoy the interior and the looks.
My IS350 has performed perfectly from day one and I have been very impressed with the build quality and technology features.
Lexus has moved into BMW's performance territory but it is bringing Lexus reliability and luxury (which is a pretty big feature set). Sure Lexus could tighten up the handling a bit, but I could almost guarantee that they would get a lot of comments that the car rides rough and isn't comfortable. I think Lexus is the perfect blend of performance and luxury but everyone will have their own version of the perfect combination.

Bradman

Lexus3oi

i'll preface this by saying i plan on buying my first Lexus, an IS350

but what does the average person think of Lexus, BMW/Mercedes - lite

mkaresh

Every auto company contains a good number of skilled drivers who know what a great-handling car feels like. Similarly, there are few great ideas that haven't been thought of a number of times before by someone in each of these companies. True, some companies contain more expertise than others in various areas, but in my experience expertise isn't usually the limiting factor.

Instead, the big challenge in any of these companies is getting the company to do what you think it ought to. Any organization that truly cares about handling has the talent within it to create a great-handling car. There is certainly a cultural element to this, as cultures drive priorities.

BMW clearly listens to its creative people. If anything it listens too much, as the world hasn't exactly fallen in love with Bangle's styling or iDrive. Lately it seems as if every idea within BMW gets put into a car.

Of course, people differ in how they define great handling. Whoever's in charge of how the Corvette handles, for example, clearly has a much different definition than my own.