GonzoBuggs

Percy,

You posted some specifics a while back, but the details you provided only included four speakers. Which speakers would you replace and with what?

I think the two mids and two tweaters with crossovers you quoted was somewhere around $700. Do you think it is worth it and what other speakers would you consider replacing?

Would you try replacing the sub? Increase it's size?

TimboIS

Bad analogy. The Big Mac comes with everything. You have to special order if you want less than everything. So with that said. The IS should come with ML, and you'd have to order to get something different.

GonzoBuggs

You're just mad because my burger is coming with onions and is just about to come off the grill.

Percy

The good part is that the IS350 seems to use 6.5 inch midwoofers and 1 inch tweeters. You may still have to pop the MD100's out of their casing in order for them to fit. As for the MW160 Dyn, if you're lucky, they should drop right in. Not sure though as I haven't taken one apart. The only ones that know right now are the factory guys and gals!

It would be interesting to compare a stock IS350 equipped with Dyn speakers versus a IS350 w/ML (no Dyn) system. Your ears will thank you for the Dyns as their tweeters do not induce any listener fatigue. Try that with titanium. (ouch.)

Too bad I don't have the funds for an IS350. I would like to open one up and write a book on audio with these guys. Anyone near the Chicago area?

Percy

Percy

Replace the tweets with MD100s, and the midwoofers with MW160s. That's for the front. Rears will also receive the same treatment, provided that they are the same driver array. As for the sub, the MW180 might do the trick nicely.

Percy

cooney

At over $500 per pair for the Dynaudio MD100/MW160 set (sold, with crossovers, as the Dynaudio System 240), that's around $1,100 if you replace the speakers in all four doors. Adding the MW180 subwoofer increases the price by over $200. And that's all before installation. My point is that the ML system is only $940 standalone (without nav), so this is about audio quality, not saving money.

And if one went with Dynaudio speakers, would you leave the stock crossovers and continue to use the stock 65 mm (2½") midrange speakers in each door? Or use the Dynaudio two-way cross-overs and just run the Dynaudio speakers in each door?

Thanks

heyheyhey

The ML that comes with the NAV also allows DVD-V/A playback. Do you think it will be possible to integrate another system with the IS's Nav in the futures so that the people who could not wait for ML could have the DVD-V/A feature later?

tigmd99

I have disagreed with Percy in the past on this topic: aftermarket vs. ML. if you have the $$ & patience, then get ML. Period. If you don't, then consider what Percy is suggesting. However, Percy's way has many variables and pitfalls. Disclaimer: I do have experience with car audio, but i am not a professional installer.

Aftermarket parts are great and all...but the quality may not be any better than ML's stuff. For example, on my CRV, i had MB Quart Q (MB Quart top-of-the-line speakers back then)...one of the woofer blew within 6 months. BTW, i listen to pop most of the time at low-moderate volumes, including Celine Dion (sad to admit it). You get the picture...i was not stretching the system by any means.

Mark Levinson parts are pretty top-notch for OEM stuff (and aftermarket standards). Polypropylene cones, titanium tweets, neodymium magnets on all speakers, and aluminum baskets are top quality stuff. Aftermarket speakers ONLY the past few years are coming out with neodymium magnets in their woofers. And Lexus (or Harman Kardon) makes these things in mass production under quality control...so, these things are very uniform in quality. Aftermarket stuff may not have this type of quality control.

Installation is a big hassle. You don't know who you will get...a highschool dropout, a guy off the street who is working part time at Mcdonalds and stereo place, or a professional installer with proper training. And going to a well-respected car audio shop is NOT always a guarantee.

As you may know, once you pop open the car door panels (or dash panel) and mess around with it a few times, rattles show up or things break. Things get misaligned. Scratches from installer's tools. You mess around with it long enough and you will have issues.

Sound. Yes, you can get a big aftermarket amplifier with Dynaudio speakers and make powerful sound. However, you will NEVER match Mark Levinson's imaging or staging...you will never be able to tweak the aftermarket stuff to match the interior of your Lexus. Mark Levinson tuned the Lexus since day one. Yes, you can get Alpine F1 series and tune it...but, once again, you need an expert audiophile/installer.

Alpine F1 series are not cheap either...after everything, you will easily spend over $5K on your system! The headunit alone is around $2000. And then you have to get other parts to match the quality of the F1 headunit...and you will easily go past $5000!

diablo1

I understand that people want to use certain types of music or certain specific tracks to test out the full range of a car stereo (or any stereo for that matter), but here is my question - doesn't it make sense to test a stereo with the music you will actually be listening to? For example, let's say you will be listening to Top 40 radio 90% of the time you are in your car. I'm sure a more expensive stereo will do a noticeably better job reproducing a symphony orchestra, but if it's just pop music coming from a degraded radio signal, isn't it possible that for that purpose, a more expensive stereo might not be worth it?

I just don't get it when people say you have to test out a system using this kind of music or that kind. Doesn't it make the most sense to test the stereos using the kind of music (and source) that you actually plan to listen to the most? And, if the difference between the systems isn't that noticeable given that combination of source and type of music, wouldn't it make sense to maybe buy the cheaper system?

Just a questions I've always wondered about - thanks for your advice!

tigmd99

Just to give you some comparison...my wonderful Corolla has an aftermarket system: (bought thru internet to keep prices low...prices below are approximate from memory)
- Infinity Reference 6.5/1" component ($129)
- Infinity Reference 6x9 (3-way) ($89)
- Infinity Reference 4-channel amplifier ($230)
- Kenwood Woox (self-amplified small subwoofer) ($160)
- I am keeping the stock headunit
Total price is around $650 (more or less, including shipping)
Installation is around $400-450.
So, total price including install is around $1000-1100.

Please note that the above speakers are NOT top-of-the-line stuff...Infinity cheapest speakers. Amplifier is not even close to being average with other aftermarket stuff. YET, my total system costs above $1K already. Mark Levinson stuff are likely of better quality (discussed above) and has far better technology (DVD audio, 7.1 discrete surround sound, spatial imaging, speed control, etc.).

BTW, my installer is still looking into very annoying hissing noises from the system and rattles on my rear shelf (not there before install). This is not surprising for me...i have had issues with aftermarket parts or installation on my previous cars.

Conclusion, if my Corolla came with ML option for $2000 or higher, then i would still get it instead of going the aftermarket route! Less headache. Less aggravation. More peace of mind.

Now, throw in top-notch NAVI system from Lexus...and you have an unbeatable system, capable of DVD movies, DVD audio, and navigation. I have NOT seen any aftermarket NAVI as good as Toyota and Honda. Touchscreen rocks! (Kenwood NAVI is the only one that is close to these OEM NAVI.)

You don't know how happy i was that my G500 came with a pretty good Harman Kardon audio system. It is not nearly as good as the newer surround sound Mark Levinson system. However, i am not touching that system with any aftermarket parts...too risky.

jmcphillip

In my opinion, the biggest point being missed here is not the quality of the product but the warranty of the product. The Mark Lev system is better than the stock--ok we know this to be true. Some aftermarket stuff may sound better than Levinson but If you get Levinson you get same car warranty for the sound system. If you go aftermarket you probably only get 1 year out of the equipment and maybe 2 years out of the speakers. You get 4 years or 50000k warranty with Mark levinson. Great Sound, Factory Installed and integrated, Longer Warranty. Nuff Said!!!

GonzoBuggs

I have no idea why I'm going back to this, but I can't help myself.

The Big Mac comes with everything and so does the Lexus. You absolutely get a high-quality audio system in every car. Let's call standard audio ONIONS. You get onions on your Big Mac (IS). Do you want EXTRA ONIONS (ML)? You have to special order.

My analogy rocks ----->

TimboIS

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

fz1

I think it boils down to how much of an audiophile are you? For most people, the Pioneer system will be more than adequate for their listening needs. If you are listening to MP3's, chances are your bitrate is not that good and you are losing a lot of audio quality which will become more evident on a more sophisticated audio sytem - just like analog signals look like crap on HDTV's. Garbage in, garbage out.

If you are the type than agonizes over the littlest audio sound details and you demand perfection for your aural fix, then by all means go with the ML system. If you are the average Joe and you listen to music in the car for the entertainment and don't hang on every note why pay the extra money for something you really aren't using?

As a side note, I was thinking of resale in 5 years with the ML system and I don't think it would add much value. The speed at which tech is changing it will be so yesterday IMHO.

kensteele

I don't know about the analogy because onions can easily be removed from the product and subsitute onions are easy to come by and since they are consumed, way less value; you're willing to forgo them easier.

My point was if I lived in CA and I purchased a fully-loaded IS350 and I paid $42k for it and I drive across the Rockies to visit my friend in a small town in the middle of Oz and by coincidence he had the same IS350 as I....if I jump inside his vehicle and noticed he had a movie playing and the sound was incredible and I saw the words Mark Levinson....

...I would feel cheated.

If you don't want ML and you really don't care about audio equipment, the whole point is moot. I'm guessing contratry to what Lexus might think, people don't exactly want Mark Levinson, but they want top of the line, the best, all the features, "fully-loaded."

Imagine if the performance package was the only option in some markets, imagine if the luxury package was totally unavailable in the East. That would be bad.