View Poll Results: Percieved Value of the IS.
Good Value: the IS is worth more than the MSRP.
11
15.07%
Fair Value: the IS is worth more than the Invoice Price.
39
53.42%
Poor Value: the IS is worth less than the Invoice Price.
23
31.51%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll
Percieved "Value": good or bad?
10-17-05, 01:45 PM
#31
Originally Posted by Ratman009
I don't recall if you have actually driven the car yet. Again, not trying to be a wise guy here, but I don't recall any of your posts saying anything about you ever driving the car.
I needn't repeat the numerous posts of other people. Practically everyone feels the same way with regards to the performance and feel of the car.
However, I stress function. Functionally, the car provides me with enough room, comfort, safety, performance, and reliability in a nice little package that no other car can offer at a price that is reasonable and approachable. Functionally, the car is roomy as I drive alone 95% of the time. Functionally, the car has all the creature comforts that I like and am accustomed to. Functionally, the car provides all the safety I need. Functionally, the car's performance can get me into the freeway and pass all the slow people in the geriatric, incompetent, and/or stupid populations. Functionally, Lexus provides reliable cars with few maintenance concerns.
Your function may differ mine. There are many people out there who need to drive three other people in their cars everyday. The IS is NOT for them. There are people who love the feel of the road and conquer it with every twist and turn. The IS is NOT for them. There are people who do not need heated/ventilated leather seats, power sunshades and moonroofs, nor bells and whistles that cost an extra $10k compared to a Corolla. The IS is NOT for them.
Perhaps the IS is not for you? Well, I know for a fact that the IS is for me.
Good luck with the search for finding the one car that will be perfect for you.
10-17-05, 02:44 PM
#32
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Very nicely put. And done respectfully too.
Originally Posted by PhilipMSPT
I think I should clear up the air of any misconceptions on "driving experience." Yes, I have driven the car. Yes, it's fast in a straight line. Yes, there is more to be desired to road feel and car control. Yes, it is a small cramped car. Yes, the luxury factor cradles the driver, but the performance factor does not.
I needn't repeat the numerous posts of other people. Practically everyone feels the same way with regards to the performance and feel of the car.
However, I stress function. Functionally, the car provides me with enough room, comfort, safety, performance, and reliability in a nice little package that no other car can offer at a price that is reasonable and approachable. Functionally, the car is roomy as I drive alone 95% of the time. Functionally, the car has all the creature comforts that I like and am accustomed to. Functionally, the car provides all the safety I need. Functionally, the car's performance can get me into the freeway and pass all the slow people in the geriatric, incompetent, and/or stupid populations. Functionally, Lexus provides reliable cars with few maintenance concerns.
Your function may differ mine. There are many people out there who need to drive three other people in their cars everyday. The IS is NOT for them. There are people who love the feel of the road and conquer it with every twist and turn. The IS is NOT for them. There are people who do not need heated/ventilated leather seats, power sunshades and moonroofs, nor bells and whistles that cost an extra $10k compared to a Corolla. The IS is NOT for them.
Perhaps the IS is not for you? Well, I know for a fact that the IS is for me.
Good luck with the search for finding the one car that will be perfect for you.
I needn't repeat the numerous posts of other people. Practically everyone feels the same way with regards to the performance and feel of the car.
However, I stress function. Functionally, the car provides me with enough room, comfort, safety, performance, and reliability in a nice little package that no other car can offer at a price that is reasonable and approachable. Functionally, the car is roomy as I drive alone 95% of the time. Functionally, the car has all the creature comforts that I like and am accustomed to. Functionally, the car provides all the safety I need. Functionally, the car's performance can get me into the freeway and pass all the slow people in the geriatric, incompetent, and/or stupid populations. Functionally, Lexus provides reliable cars with few maintenance concerns.
Your function may differ mine. There are many people out there who need to drive three other people in their cars everyday. The IS is NOT for them. There are people who love the feel of the road and conquer it with every twist and turn. The IS is NOT for them. There are people who do not need heated/ventilated leather seats, power sunshades and moonroofs, nor bells and whistles that cost an extra $10k compared to a Corolla. The IS is NOT for them.
Perhaps the IS is not for you? Well, I know for a fact that the IS is for me.
Good luck with the search for finding the one car that will be perfect for you.
I guess I'm just so damned disappointed since I've waited all this time for the car (my first new car by the way in case you guys can't tell), and wound up being let down when I finally got into it. I was really looking forward to joining the Lexus fold, but now I'm pretty doubtful that it is going to happen. And no, I don't like the GS
10-17-05, 02:47 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by PhilipMSPT
Perhaps the IS is not for you? Well, I know for a fact that the IS is for me.
Good luck with the search for finding the one car that will be perfect for you.
Good luck with the search for finding the one car that will be perfect for you.
I think Philip is one of the most articulate posters on this forum. Some people consider him a Lexus fanboi, but he is simply someone this car works well for. His time here is well spent. There are others who have little positive to say about the car, yet they continue to hang out here and attempt to argue that it's not a good car.
Lets analogize this ongoing debate:
The meatloaf forum:
"I like meatloaf."
"Meatloaf is no good, I like corn."
"I like meatloaf how meatloaf tastes."
"How could you like meatloaf, it doesnt taste like corn? Corn tastes so much better. I can eat meatloaf, but I'd rather eat corn instead."
"I don't like corn, I like meatloaf."
"How could you not like corn? Meatloaf doesnt taste good?"
"You like corn, I like meatloaf."
"But meatloaf doesnt taste as good as corn. Besides, you can't even get meatloaf made with chicken."
"Well, then it would be chickenloaf and not meatloaf. Meatloaf tastes better to me."
"But it's not as good as corn."
Get my point?
10-17-05, 03:23 PM
#34
Originally Posted by GonzoBuggs
The meatloaf forum:
"I like meatloaf."
"Meatloaf is no good, I like corn."
"I like meatloaf how meatloaf tastes."
"How could you like meatloaf, it doesnt taste like corn? Corn tastes so much better. I can eat meatloaf, but I'd rather eat corn instead."
"I don't like corn, I like meatloaf."
"How could you not like corn? Meatloaf doesnt taste good?"
"You like corn, I like meatloaf."
"But meatloaf doesnt taste as good as corn. Besides, you can't even get meatloaf made with chicken."
"Well, then it would be chickenloaf and not meatloaf. Meatloaf tastes better to me."
"But it's not as good as corn."
"I like meatloaf."
"Meatloaf is no good, I like corn."
"I like meatloaf how meatloaf tastes."
"How could you like meatloaf, it doesnt taste like corn? Corn tastes so much better. I can eat meatloaf, but I'd rather eat corn instead."
"I don't like corn, I like meatloaf."
"How could you not like corn? Meatloaf doesnt taste good?"
"You like corn, I like meatloaf."
"But meatloaf doesnt taste as good as corn. Besides, you can't even get meatloaf made with chicken."
"Well, then it would be chickenloaf and not meatloaf. Meatloaf tastes better to me."
"But it's not as good as corn."
Last edited by PhilipMSPT; 10-19-05 at 01:11 PM.
10-17-05, 03:28 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Ratman009
It is not storage room that is the problem. It is PEOPLE room. How many of us are complaining about hitting our heads on the roof of the car already? How many of us think the car feels really "cramped." Lots. And the IS is NOT skewed to be more of a sports car than a family sedan. It does not offer a good enough driving experience (outside of acceleration and only the IS350 is good for that) to be called a "SPORTS" car and it certainly does not offer enough room to be considered a "FAMILY SEDAN." Obviously, my expectations for a "sport sedan" are significantly higher than yours. The IS is a small car with sporty pretentions, that's all. That's fine if that is what Lexus wants to the car to be.
Also, I don't recall if you have actually driven the car yet. Again, not trying to be a wise guy here, but I don't recall any of your posts saying anything about you ever driving the car. Forgive me for not searching through all of your posts, but if you have posted your driving opinions, I apologize and I'll try to read up on them. Anyway, once you do drive the IS, preferably back to back with a G35 sport package or 330 sport package (sans active steering too), you should certainly see the points that I've made. If not, you just weren't driving the car hard enough to notice the difference. Believe me, the difference in driver confidence and true handling abilities IS there (and has already been proven in instrumented testing by the major driving rags). If you never discover it, fantastic. Me, I've already felt the difference hands on and was disappointed in the new IS's abilities.
As I said before, I'm going to give the car another drive or two with the Performance Package (I've only driven the Premium Luxury package with the 18s) before purchasing another vehicle. I don't think that the PP will help the light feel/feedback through the steering wheel, but it may improve some of the push I noticed when driving the car. Of bigger concern here is the lack of headroom and overall tightness of the interior, which no option package is going to help - that is probably the real deal breaker to me (my wife said I actually looked too big for the car when I was sitting in it - and I'm not that big of a person - I am pretty nicely proportioned). And trust me, she wanted me to buy the Lexus. She thinks BMWs are overpriced for what they give you (and she is right to an extent). But after Saturday, where SHE got to drive both cars back to back, she now thinks the Lexus is "an overpriced wanna be sports car that is too small and drives kind of crappy to be 40K+ nicely equipped. You're buying the BMW instead." This is coming from a girl who frankly knows nothing about cars except what her own senses take in. Consider her a completely unbiased opinion. And she comes from a family that currently owns 3 Toyotas.
Yes the IS definitely looks more expensive on the inside. But I'm coming from a 94' Honda Accord with cloth interior. Any of the new sport sedans are a big step up in luxury for me (though my Honda has better fit and finish than some of these new cars - and the interior still looks brand spanking new after 140,000 miles!!!), so as long as the car has full power seats, driver seat memory, mirror memory, heated seats, a good stereo, and maybe auto dimming mirrors all around, that's more than enough luxury for me. Heck I don't even need buttery soft leather. I'd be much happier with Alcantara or something like that (it holds up better, doesn't get nearly as hot in the sun, and holds you in your seat better).
So the new IS is stuck in its own little world. It doesn't have the overall driving experience that enthusiasts want and it is too small for many people (read over 30) who still demand some practicality in their "sporty" sedan. My prediction: the car will sell better than the last IS, but not by that large of a margin. The IS will lose "enthusiast" sales to the 325/330/G35 and "practical" sales to the TL, TSX, G35, S60, CTS, etc. If lexus had priced the cars a little more aggressively, it may have offset this a bit, but a "posh" interior and gadgets only goes so far. The biggest saving grace for the new IS will be it's looks. The car is good looking, which wil sway a good number of people into buying the car. Even with all of my personal "issues" with the car, I still keep thinking how damn good the thing would look in my driveway.
Also, I don't recall if you have actually driven the car yet. Again, not trying to be a wise guy here, but I don't recall any of your posts saying anything about you ever driving the car. Forgive me for not searching through all of your posts, but if you have posted your driving opinions, I apologize and I'll try to read up on them. Anyway, once you do drive the IS, preferably back to back with a G35 sport package or 330 sport package (sans active steering too), you should certainly see the points that I've made. If not, you just weren't driving the car hard enough to notice the difference. Believe me, the difference in driver confidence and true handling abilities IS there (and has already been proven in instrumented testing by the major driving rags). If you never discover it, fantastic. Me, I've already felt the difference hands on and was disappointed in the new IS's abilities.
As I said before, I'm going to give the car another drive or two with the Performance Package (I've only driven the Premium Luxury package with the 18s) before purchasing another vehicle. I don't think that the PP will help the light feel/feedback through the steering wheel, but it may improve some of the push I noticed when driving the car. Of bigger concern here is the lack of headroom and overall tightness of the interior, which no option package is going to help - that is probably the real deal breaker to me (my wife said I actually looked too big for the car when I was sitting in it - and I'm not that big of a person - I am pretty nicely proportioned). And trust me, she wanted me to buy the Lexus. She thinks BMWs are overpriced for what they give you (and she is right to an extent). But after Saturday, where SHE got to drive both cars back to back, she now thinks the Lexus is "an overpriced wanna be sports car that is too small and drives kind of crappy to be 40K+ nicely equipped. You're buying the BMW instead." This is coming from a girl who frankly knows nothing about cars except what her own senses take in. Consider her a completely unbiased opinion. And she comes from a family that currently owns 3 Toyotas.
Yes the IS definitely looks more expensive on the inside. But I'm coming from a 94' Honda Accord with cloth interior. Any of the new sport sedans are a big step up in luxury for me (though my Honda has better fit and finish than some of these new cars - and the interior still looks brand spanking new after 140,000 miles!!!), so as long as the car has full power seats, driver seat memory, mirror memory, heated seats, a good stereo, and maybe auto dimming mirrors all around, that's more than enough luxury for me. Heck I don't even need buttery soft leather. I'd be much happier with Alcantara or something like that (it holds up better, doesn't get nearly as hot in the sun, and holds you in your seat better).
So the new IS is stuck in its own little world. It doesn't have the overall driving experience that enthusiasts want and it is too small for many people (read over 30) who still demand some practicality in their "sporty" sedan. My prediction: the car will sell better than the last IS, but not by that large of a margin. The IS will lose "enthusiast" sales to the 325/330/G35 and "practical" sales to the TL, TSX, G35, S60, CTS, etc. If lexus had priced the cars a little more aggressively, it may have offset this a bit, but a "posh" interior and gadgets only goes so far. The biggest saving grace for the new IS will be it's looks. The car is good looking, which wil sway a good number of people into buying the car. Even with all of my personal "issues" with the car, I still keep thinking how damn good the thing would look in my driveway.
Guess what, most ALL car sales are bought by regular guys and gals. Not enthusiasts. Just because the car is CATERED to enthusiasts, does not mean they are buying it.
The majority of cars in this class stay stock, are driven to work and to the mall. Maybe every once in awhile, someone is in the backseat.
The IS is catered more toward people who "drive" but in the LExus fashion. Lexus will NEVER be the most hardcore sports anything, that is NOT the Lexus way.
So again, its understandable the car is not for you. but trust me, it will be for 40,000 people a year, which is a modest goal.
10-17-05, 07:22 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by picus
40k is their sales goal in the U.S this year for the IS? Is that all three models... I assume so?
Hmm, that's going to be interesting.
Hmm, that's going to be interesting.
Lexus will have NO problems selling 40,000 IS cars.
10-17-05, 07:55 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Lexus is on pace to sell 36,000 GS 300/430s this year. They sell 30,000 LSs a year. Those cars can cost twice as much.
Lexus will have NO problems selling 40,000 IS cars.
Lexus will have NO problems selling 40,000 IS cars.
10-17-05, 07:58 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by picus
Who are you trying to convince? I didn't say they wouldn't make 40,000 IS sales, just that it will be interesting. By the way, where does Lexus normally post their sales?
10-19-05, 02:32 AM
#41
know some of you guys are wondering how the RL is being sold so cheap.....and the answer is acura is having trouble selling them, hence low prices. and as to this post i think both models of the new IS are overpriced. i can't believe lexus is asking almost 30K for aonly 204 hp......i know hp isn't everything but................................ 
10-20-05, 03:50 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by AM1
know some of you guys are wondering how the RL is being sold so cheap.....and the answer is acura is having trouble selling them, hence low prices. and as to this post i think both models of the new IS are overpriced. i can't believe lexus is asking almost 30K for aonly 204 hp......i know hp isn't everything but................................
If you think the IS250 is expensive for 30K with only 204 hp, think of the Bimmer 525.
10-25-05, 11:58 PM
#43
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Canadians getting ripped off again
Up here in Canada we are getting shafted once again:
IS250 starts at around $38K cdn convert to US approx $32k
IS350 $49k cdn converts to US approx $41k but US starts at $35k.
Why are we paying so much more for this car here and I think it is overpriced and especially when HID and moonroof does not come standard.
IS250 starts at around $38K cdn convert to US approx $32k
IS350 $49k cdn converts to US approx $41k but US starts at $35k.
Why are we paying so much more for this car here and I think it is overpriced and especially when HID and moonroof does not come standard.
10-28-05, 05:54 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by D&G
Up here in Canada we are getting shafted once again:
IS250 starts at around $38K cdn convert to US approx $32k
IS350 $49k cdn converts to US approx $41k but US starts at $35k.
Why are we paying so much more for this car here and I think it is overpriced and especially when HID and moonroof does not come standard.
IS250 starts at around $38K cdn convert to US approx $32k
IS350 $49k cdn converts to US approx $41k but US starts at $35k.
Why are we paying so much more for this car here and I think it is overpriced and especially when HID and moonroof does not come standard.
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