Turbo'd_Wxman

Sensei is up at the count of 8... Looks like he is taking some serious shots again.... DOWN GOES SENSEI!!! DOWN GOES SENSEI!!!!!!!

gte

if you look at my magazine article, you'll see me quoted by evan griffey as saying "supras for life" ... which is a bit cheesy sounding, but true none the less

-gte

RX469

iTrader: (1)

I'm excited!


(23:11:23 Nov. 19, 2003)
Lexus set to put together IS 430 muscle car this fall


By AUTOWEEK

The traditional definition of a muscle car is a smaller car given the engine of a bigger car. Well, Lexus has a smaller car, the IS 300, and it has a nice engine from a bigger car, the 4.3-liter V8. Voilà: muscle car.

Lexus has tapped Rod Millen to assemble its IS 430 muscle car, which should be completed this fall. The V8 will not be supercharged or turbocharged but will get enough massaging to put out 350 to 360 hp, with the emphasis on “street driveability.”

The power will run through a Getrag six-speed manual to a drivetrain upgraded to handle the extra power. The car also gets bigger brakes and 18-inch wheels.

Is this a production tease? We hope so. Word is the engine requires only an extra three-quarters of an inch of hood space to fit, a clearance that could easily be accommodated.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

err.... actually, the is430 is done alreayd, read the other thread

Choritsu-shi

… thank you “gte” I appreciate the extra info. With the understanding that I did check out your links, you can at least do me a favor and re-read what I said…

"I can understand your argument here, but...better balanced??? I don't know about that." I don't know means I don't know. Since you’ve brought it up…can you share with us as to why the 2JZ-GTE and BMW I-6’s require a dual mass flywheel? I would also like to know why many of us, Supra owners, are suffering from “crank-walk” and blowing out the front main seals?

” The ability to spin higher does not replace low end torque. You either have it or you don't.”
You replied, “to replace the low end torque was directed at the fact that if your power band starts at 5.5k, you can spin the motor to 8.5 or 9k, and when shifted, it is still in its power band, or sweet spot.”
Well if the power band starts at 5.5k why would you even consider using the words LOW END TORQUE? Again you either have it or you don’t… and 2JZ’s DON”T. We all know how strong and powerful the 2JZ can be, but really what is its worth without “forced induction”?

"7 main caps or 5... who cares, I don't think that's relevant." I'm not saying 5 is better than 7, I'm just saying I don't care, and I don't think that's relevant. And if it’s relevant to you, then how many main caps will your 4JZ-GTE, V-12 has. I count 7 main caps… based on your argument, will this be enough support for twice the load? …Or is to be an inline12 cylinder engine with 14 main caps and just under 5ft. long?

"the GTE is a square motor??? Okay, if you say so." again, okay if you say so. I really don’t know, and I really don’t care. A motor can only be as strong as it’s weakest link. Square as it may be, you know as well as I know that 2JZ’s go through pistons like there’s no tomorrow. So, whether it is a blown “main cap” or a “blown piston”, you still have a “BLOWN MOTOR”!

Before I take your suggestion into the aluminum vs. cast iron theories… what exactly is a “racing aluminum alloy” and how do you determine it to be a non-racing “aluminum alloy”?

…for fun assuming you are correct… “Toyota could not make a production motor superior to the 2jzgte” Can you tell us why Toyota themselves have always chosen the production 3SGTE and now the production aluminum block V8, 3UZ-FE over the production 2JZ for the Japan GT Championship competitions. Huh? Do you? You don’t have to follow JGTC (formerly JSPC) to understand the significance to the development of the Japanese Automotive Manufactures. So that we’re clear, my example to use JGTC does not come down to, “one thing”.
“As the name suggests, the JGTC is a race series, based on GT race cars. Originally from Europe, the GT cars are designed to be driven long distances with the highest levels of performance and comfort. Manufacturers ware forced to pick the best “ingredients” (motor, body, suspension, components…etc.) to create these cars. The Japan GT Championship (JGTC) cars embody the highest levels of technology and performance that manufacturers make available to the public. They are based on 2-door production vehicles, and are forbidden from incorporating advanced aftermarket parts and systems such as carbon fiber brakes and active suspension. As long as the brand of the motor and the chassis are identical, a motor that is not native to that particular model car may be substituted. Also, suspension modifications are only permitted under the condition that the new suspension stays true to the original suspension format of the base vehicle”

You obviously have other objectives here and are going way off tangent here. I admire the fact you’re speaking up for Wxman who has shown he is capable of counting to “8”, but since you’ve taken the liberty to look both ways and to cross my street… Go here and you will find an English version, which also has a cool movie worth looking at.

Saiyonara,

Sensei

rominl

iTrader: (4)

man there are so much info here, that's way out of my league. definitely time for me to learn as much as i can. i really apprecaite everyone giving their best inputs and arguements, it's how we make this forum alive and useful. but i just want to ask for one thing: i can take heated discussion or long arguements and debates, but just make sure you don't attack anyone or put up any flames. now i am not pointing my fingers at anyone (yet), but just trying to make this thread as clean and useful as possible.

and imho though, i am not sure about the "toyota could not make a production motor superior to the 2jzgte, unless of course they made the 4jzgte by melding two 2jzgte blocks/cranks and such together" part. as good as the gte engine is (which i really admire, that's one hell of an engine), it has its weakness, it's not THE BEST by all means. there is a reason for other toyota engines and unless i can see real proof, i don't see what's bad in the v8 (i still have not seen any evidence with people saying that with the same kind of modification, the v8 can't hold as much power as the gte) over the gte. yes i have seen 1000hp supra tt, but that's not without a lot of engine and transmission mod, and how often they have to change the parts and maintenance, we don't know. and at the same time no one has tried to do the same kind of work on the v8 to see whether 1) it can hold as much power, 2) it produces more power, and 3) how reliable it is. now it could well be the case that the v8 will die right the way, but without proofs, how can you say, right?

gte

yes i can, and now you don't have to say "i don't know", because now you do know. its to preserve the life of the drive line, its like a buffer for everything behind the flywheel. it also acts an absorbent for torsional dampning. the I6 is perfectly balanced in theory, in real life it is only as smooth and balanced, as the parts that are made by imperfect humans. toyota takes an extra precautionary step and adds a 2 piece harmonic balancer to help with that. the 2 piece flywheel, which was not on any of the M series inline 6's, is for the driveline. very very few supra owners have had crank walk, the only ones i have seen are early aem owners (doing many many cold/oil dry starts) and bad installs. have you ever heard of a supra with the original factory motor and factory engine management having crank walk, i haven't, and i read a lot of supra message boards. the blown front seal is due to higher rpms .... this creates more oil pressure because the factory oil pump bleed by system is adequate only to the factory redline. if you want to rev the motor higher, you also need to increase the volume that can be bled off. this is done by drilling out the "restrictive" passage that the oil routes through to go back to the pan. the 7m had the opposite problem, it didn't make enough pressure at idle, so you had to shim that valve shut to try and help such.


its nothing special without forced induction, but thats like me saying, "what is your v8 without those 2 extra cylinders. it would be a ridiculous arguement, as both things are part of the base advantageous reasoning, that would be given when listing their positive attributes
i don't think that replace would be a proper word, but alternative would. and that is why that increased redline is an alternative to low end torque. you can stay in the power band all the time, if driven right.



the mains could not take double the load, unfortunately, but i'd imagine toyota would either make them 4 bolt mains or increase the overall bearing area, as to remove some of hte added stress. the motor would be better in almost all respects (theoretically) but the main cap is a weakness that cannot be gotten around completely, in V motors. you should care, its important information.


the pistons are NOT the weak link in the 2j motor, as a matter of fact, the most powerful 2j motors ever EVER built are using stock pistons, thats right, stock pistons. the bullish cars use stock pistons, including paul efantis's 8 second street supra, and yes i have seen his motor, and seen those stock pistons. he upgrades the rods, which are the weak link. if a 2j piston is hurt, its due to bad tuning, not bad design



any standard cast block would not be racing, if they cast it specifically as a performance motor block, like GM does with their aluminum 400 cubic inch replacement block for the LS1 motor, that is apples to oranges, we are talking about production motors that the rest of us have access to


i don't follow the JGTC (as i stated earlier) but i can still tell you why they use those motors. it all comes down to handling. they can reach the horsepower limit with any of those motors, why use one that is stronger and heavier if you don't need it. if you can lose 100 pounds of weight, in front of the firewall, thats a huge huge difference in how the car handles, and how the suspension can be set up.


there is not really an "other objective" . i'm open to reviewing your opinion, and i even agreed with you, that in your cited specific example, the V8 is a better choice, but it is not an overall better motor by any means.

gte

based on your comments, they are confused at best. no one is flaming, as a matter of fact i sent bruce a PM saying that i wasn't looking for a pissing match

the v8 is not bad, in fact in the JGTC example bruce gave, it is a better choice. overall the 2j is superior.

the stock toyota long block (less more aggressive cams) and stock toyota transmission can each handle 1000hp, and have been proven to do so by 50 cars or more, throughout the years. you may have meant something different with the general statement you made, but it was not conveyed that way

the v8 has not been proven to hold 1000hp on stock internals. you saying that you hope it could is just a hope. that motor seems to crap out at about 600hp. the 2j is the best factory motor ever produced, if you don't think so, show me a stock motor that exceeds it in horsepower production, reliability, cost and strength. you can even try and find anything that has up to twice the cylinders, see if any of them can make 900rwhp. i've seen about a dozen internally stock 2j's make that power.

the floor is yours ....

Turbo'd_Wxman

Bruce Nomura, the reason that I don't answer you is because you spout trash out your mouth. This is why you are black-eyed on IS300.net and have been ran out of there. Now you came over to clublexus to start the same crap. I will not get into these idiotic conversations with you because you never learn. Same garbage different day. Give it a rest for once or maybe clublexus will have to send you packing as well.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Guys, let's keep this discussion civil and on topic please or the thread will be closed

Turbo'd_Wxman

Understand that Bruce has done this on IS300.net as well. I would suggest you get this guy under control. On .net he tried to play the know it all. He liked to argue points with people and just simply tried to make people look stupid. GTE has the knowledge to call him on it and has shut him down in the past. Bruce continues to offer NOTHING to the forums and I am sure his arguementative style will continue.

BC-GS430

Another website discussing the IS430.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?<a hre...p?id=31769</a>

or

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...threadid=86563

Incase link doesn't work, goto the main page and do a search for IS 430.

LexFather

Great reading, PLEASE do not argue, debate. There is a lot of info here supporting both sides.

mmarshall

No transverse straight-six front drivers? Until recently this was true, but Suzuki for 2004 is introducing a 2.5 L straight-six mounted transversely with front-drive in its new Verona mid-sized sedan. This car is basically a redone ....and better quality ....version of the old Korean Daewoo Leganza. Suzuki basically took the old Leganza's four and rebored the block to give it six in-line, small-bore, long-stroke cylinders. Obviously, with this small displacement, there isn't a lot of standard HP (155....that's less than on some competing fours). I know that most of you guys are performance buffs and probably couldn't care less about an engine like this, but I just wanted to show you that it can be done.

brent0226

I believe the Volvo S80 is too.