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Sorry but if the 335i was tuned with full bolt ons you wouldve got destroyed lol. Even stock with a tune honestly.
Not true, a tune only 335i is not much competition to a stock ISF, like another member here pointed out, tune only 335i's trap lower than a stock ISF in the 1/4 mile . I had a Montego Blue 335i with the JB4 tune & used to be a member on the E90forums. The initial torque & midrange is impressive from those 2 turbos, but the car falls flat on its face after 6k RPM's, a ISF will get it on the top end every time. A full bolt on 335i on pump gas will sure fare better but my moneys still on the ISF, especially if its I/H/E. Its not until it starts running meth, race gas, E85, or a combo of all 3 along with being FBO will it start being lethal. But even then, I have never had a car break down as much as that car did out of the 14 cars I've owned in my lifetime. Misfires everywhere, carbon build up, failed turbos & fuel pumps, bad injectors, replaced all plugs & coils and the car STILL misfires & throw codes whenever it wanted. Mind you, these all happened separately so I would have to take out the tune & other mods each time I visited the dealer & then slap them back on when I had time. The BMW dealers were usually all booked for the next 2 weeks as well, which made it pretty frustrating.
have you ever driven an ISF?? Not saying the bimmer is slow but the F is pretty damn fast especially when you run the motor all the way to red line. I know those bimmers and crazy torque though
Never driven a ISF but with full bolt ons and meth 335i's are pushing will over 450whp and 500+ wtq .
Not true, a tune only 335i is not much competition to a stock ISF, like another member here pointed out, tune only 335i's trap lower than a stock ISF in the 1/4 mile . I had a Montego Blue 335i with the JB4 tune & used to be a member on the E90forums. The initial torque & midrange is impressive from those 2 turbos, but the car falls flat on its face after 6k RPM's, a ISF will get it on the top end every time. A full bolt on 335i on pump gas will sure fare better but my moneys still on the ISF, especially if its I/H/E. Its not until it starts running meth, race gas, E85, or a combo of all 3 along with being FBO will it start being lethal. But even then, I have never had a car break down as much as that car did out of the 14 cars I've owned in my lifetime. Misfires everywhere, carbon build up, failed turbos & fuel pumps, bad injectors, replaced all plugs & coils and the car STILL misfires & throw codes whenever it wanted. Mind you, these all happened separately so I would have to take out the tune & other mods each time I visited the dealer & then slap them back on when I had time. The BMW dealers were usually all booked for the next 2 weeks as well, which made it pretty frustrating.
Yeah obviously a ISF will be more reliable than a 335i but arent IHE ISFs only yielding 350-400whp? Ive seen a lot of ISFs putting low numbers down.
A tune only 335i thats auto will definitely take a F. I have a 535i tuned with BMS intake, JB4 and catless DPs so I do know how it falls on its face after 6k.
Yeah obviously a ISF will be more reliable than a 335i but arent IHE ISFs only yielding 350-400whp? Ive seen a lot of ISFs putting low numbers down.
A tune only 335i thats auto will definitely take a F. I have a 535i tuned with BMS intake, JB4 and catless DPs so I do know how it falls on its face after 6k.
This is a tune only N54
Same way Supercharger falls on its face at high RPM. I've had a share of fast cars but mostly 4cyl, the factory turbos are usually matched to the engine to produce best output at low and mid range rpm. Surely with tune you can shift that to the right a little, but it'll definitely not let your engine breathe at high RPM as they're too small to keep feeding it the amount of air that it wants, so the power falls off, simple physics you know.
See what is your inducer and exducer on the snails also pull up air flow map of your turbos and see where the sweet spots and you'll know exactly what these turbos are capable of, but if you wont go bigger turbo, don't expect miracles up top, it's what is called "falling on its face" and I'm pretty sure your stock bimmer turbos aren't any better.
I ran quick spooling turbos from G16 to G20's, to modified Blouch and FP with billet wheels, GTX and huge GT37R making well over 600whp, I always laughed when I was giving people a ride, I floored it at around 3k/rpm and told the passenger "wait wait wait" and then at around 5200rpm it hit you with over 500wtq from all wheels (Evo 9), late spool but that thing pulled hard all the way to redline (8800rpm) which you'd think your bimmer does, but our butt dyno is fooling you.
Reading your dyno graph, it is exactly that, see how your power is falling off after 5500? With bigger turbos it would actually be flat or going up, so this is exactly what they mean, the dyno shows it's falling on its face so don't argue it doesn't.
Now look at this stock isf with just headers:
1) Much flatter torque line
2) Smoother HP line
3) Power does not fall off at top as in your dyno graph
4) Still makes more than your 93-oct tuned bimmer @ 6650rpm you have 300whp this one still has 375-380whp? Keeps pulling
Yeah obviously a ISF will be more reliable than a 335i but arent IHE ISFs only yielding 350-400whp? Ive seen a lot of ISFs putting low numbers down.
A tune only 335i thats auto will definitely take a F. I have a 535i tuned with BMS intake, JB4 and catless DPs so I do know how it falls on its face after 6k.
This is a tune only N54
350whp-400whp for an IHE IS-F?
That's a broad range don't you think? On a STD DynoJet smoothing set to 5, headers and catless exhaust would put you right about 400WHP on an IS-F. Of course different types of dynos will read differently. It's all relative, on a dyno that reads 350whp for an IHE IS-F will probably read 270whp for a tuned 335i.
In CA where we have access to mostly only 91 octane, that 335i you graphed on a DynoJet put down 313 WHP. A Full header back IS-F should put down around 400 WHP on that same dyno with the same correction and smoothing, a stock one should put around 350WHP.
And that's not even taking other factors into consideration like gearing and transmission shift speeds.
I was a previous owner of a nicely modded 335i and I know that the IS-F transmission shifts much faster and is geared perfectly for the engine. When my 335i only had a JB3 it was very powerful in the midrange but fell flat in the upper revs, the IS-F pulls hard mid and high end, sometimes scary how hard it still pulls in triple digits.
No doubt a 335i with supporting mods and a tune will pull on an IS-F stock, but like I said before not as hard as you might think. From owning both cars, a tune only 335i will hang on a stock IS-F till about 80 then the IS-F will pull away no problems.
Tune only 335i vs. IS-F with full header exhaust? No contest. IS-F will freight train it.
Not true, a tune only 335i is not much competition to a stock ISF, like another member here pointed out, tune only 335i's trap lower than a stock ISF in the 1/4 mile . I had a Montego Blue 335i with the JB4 tune & used to be a member on the E90forums. The initial torque & midrange is impressive from those 2 turbos, but the car falls flat on its face after 6k RPM's, a ISF will get it on the top end every time. A full bolt on 335i on pump gas will sure fare better but my moneys still on the ISF, especially if its I/H/E. Its not until it starts running meth, race gas, E85, or a combo of all 3 along with being FBO will it start being lethal. But even then, I have never had a car break down as much as that car did out of the 14 cars I've owned in my lifetime. Misfires everywhere, carbon build up, failed turbos & fuel pumps, bad injectors, replaced all plugs & coils and the car STILL misfires & throw codes whenever it wanted. Mind you, these all happened separately so I would have to take out the tune & other mods each time I visited the dealer & then slap them back on when I had time. The BMW dealers were usually all booked for the next 2 weeks as well, which made it pretty frustrating.
I bought a 2007 E90 335i the first year it came out. I kept it totally stock except for a turbo tuner, which was essentially the equivalent of the first Juice Box. With just that mod alone I ran 12.88 @ 109 in the quartermile. A stock ISF does better. So yes, I think a stock ISF vs. a JB4 335i would be around even in the quarter with the ISF pulling up top, and a full bolt on ISF would be faster than a full bolt on 335i with JB4.
But just like sleepy stated, the 335i was in the shop more than any other car I've ever owned in about 20 years of driving.
A lot of times people think ohh I made 350whp! But for how long? Where? If you're only racing from light to light, sure then low+mid range makes sense, but if it's longer than that, don't think that your 350whp at a range of 500rpm will keep up with the car that has this power band much broader.
This one is from my old STI, fully built and dynoed on a dyno that read about 15% lower than DynoJet, might I add, just 93 octane and 24psi of boost, no additives, racing fuel, E85 or meth injection.
Turbo is Garrett GT3582R .72AR I'm trying to find the graph where it made around 550whp but can't find it. See how it doesn't have any low or mid range? But it keeps pulling up top?
This one was even earlier, stock engine, same turbo as above + 50/50 meth. Blown the ring land a month later, racing a GT2 Porsche :P
Never driven a ISF but with full bolt ons and meth 335i's are pushing will over 450whp and 500+ wtq .
Besides just being FBO & running meth, you also have to be running a high percentage of E85 with the BMS backend flash & low pressure fuel pump to hit those optimistic numbers. That is pretty much everything you can do to that N54 besides having RB or Vishnu turbos, & a fully built motor.
Originally Posted by Justin2JZ
Yeah obviously a ISF will be more reliable than a 335i but arent IHE ISFs only yielding 350-400whp? Ive seen a lot of ISFs putting low numbers down.
A tune only 335i thats auto will definitely take a F. I have a 535i tuned with BMS intake, JB4 and catless DPs so I do know how it falls on its face after 6k.
This is a tune only N54
Too lazy to find dyno charts right now, we have a whole thread dedicated to that as a sticky above. But if you have no idea how much a stock or modded ISF dynos, then why do you claim a tune only 335i will "destroy" a stock ISF? Stock ISF's are yielding around 350whp with H/E hitting around 400whp. If your tune only 335i on pump gas with no other mods is able to run faster than a 12.5 1/4 mile which is what a Road Fly tested on a bone stock ISF, then I would agree with you.
I ran against my buddy 335 last year, him: intake, jb4 tune, downpipe, against me, bone stock isf with 4 onboard, slowly walked me from 100 to 180 km/h. Dunno if I was alone in the car what would've happen, so stock 335 with only jb4 won't beat a isf, at least not mine. ;-)
I raced a FBO, jb4, meth injected n54 135i. We were dead even until I pulled after triple digits.
I raced a FBO, jb4, e85/93 mix n55 135i.
Pulled on him nicely. Headers and exhaust on ISF
N54 responds much better to mods, but n55 is far more reliable.
Plenty of valid points posted. The torque dramatically falls off on N54s. The limit FBO with stock turbos is right around 500whp&tq. I think a FBO F and 335i would be a close race. And to the N55 being more reliable than the N54 comment, negatory ghost rider they aren't lol. They leak just as much they just don't have the wastegate issues and the HPFPs.
04-20-15, 09:26 PM
