EYESEFF

Thanks man I've been looking for exactly this kind of info! I know the ISF is realistically still a heavy sedan but I'm looking to learn car control and high performance driving, I think the F isn't a bad place to start!

I ordered a new car so I only have the F until about July, therefore I can't justify swapping in new pads and fluid and whatnot. Is taking the car with stock brakes even a good idea or will I just be taking breaks every 15 minutes to let the brakes cool? I'd like to at least have some pads left before I sell the thing. I guess I'll look into whether Englishtown is a fast track, I feel like its not.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

If the track is hard on brakes - multiple places where you use the brakes hard in rapid succession - then the OEM pads will melt. One member melted his stock pads at Autobahn in Illinois. The track I like a lot is very hard on brakes, there are five braking zones scrubbing more than 40 mph every lap, and the track is only 2 miles and change. The brakes never get a chance to cool.

gearcase

Thunder hill is a 3 mile track. And a new 2 mile course. I have run both in the future we may get to run full 5 mile laps. I did have to replace the front rotor and pads, after a HOD event and a another track day. Hard braking bad vibration. Had to work on the racing line after that. No braking. Went back to oem. Im thinking of changing pads. For track now. Dont know if i can change pads now with the new rotors and pads bedded in?

gearcase

Luboxracer great link. Wow lot a info. I have a torque wrench i take ,but need to look into your other suggestions . 100 @ weather is very tough on everything people too. I have a lot to work on . It is a good running sedan Lol.

gearcase

ThunderHill yesterday , the Fcar is running good.

chris07is

iTrader: (10)

This should be in our thread with F trackers diary...

I8ABMR

I have 9 track days in 18 months at 4 different tracks all on stock pads and without a single issue . NOTHING !! Brembo still knows a thing or two about brakes . In fact because my tracks are shorter there is less time for them to cool and they are still fine. Track pads will make noise on the street . And sometimes will not bite when ice cold . Brembo still offers a great total package

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

The pads are not made by Brembo, they're made by Jurid and silkscreened with Brembo's logo.

You don't drive at fast tracks. They are not hard on brakes. You would melt your pads here in the Southeast just like the guy who tried stock pads at Autobahn in Illinois.

Stop saying they're great. They're great for you on the tracks you drive. Nothing more, nothing less.

Tokenblkgy

I live in Sacramento and i still have'nt been to Thunderhill and its that close to me.

So Lobuxracer.. what brake pads should we be looking into for a track say like Thunderhill, would you base your pads on length of track, number of breaking points on the track or other factors??

Im still considering upgrading brake fluid to Super ATE Amber but i'm still debating it, i assume the OEM fluid is OK?.

chris07is

iTrader: (10)

there is thread here with tons of info about the track. when i did my first track, i changed my brake fluid with racing brake fluid. As far as pad is concern, if youre mechanically incline and hard core track driver, they recommend the carbotech xp. i have ebc yellow pad and so far its been great with two track event, although it will make some noise. Also, dont forget about your tires. gluck.

I8ABMR

"Stop saying they're great" ? I " don't drive at fast tracks" ??

Bro, at least I am on the track improving my skills as a driver, representing Lexus and F, inspiring those who will come after me, and doing some damn good driving and getting better every time. What have you been doing ??. LMAO We haven't seen a thing from you, in terms of track driving, in years . Other than crapping on other peoples track time with your comments.

We all speak from our personal experience. My experience says the oem system is damn fine and I have more track experience in my F than you and most who own this car . 10 TRACK DAYS IN 19 MONTHS ( it'll be 11 in 2 weeks and a 5th track and 3 different tracks run in 5 weeks ) says I know a thing or two about this car on a racetrack. LMAO fast track or slow track. BTW the track I was just on was about 2 miles with 4 zones where we repeatedly scrub 40-50 mph, just like the track you said you like......again all on stock pads and rotors.

You seem to forget that I have said repeatedly on the forum that people should upgrade the system if they are topping out at speeds over 110-120mph . Most of the country doesn't have tracks with 1/2 mile straights , 150 mph top outs, and half NASCAR circuit outfields . . 99% of the track video I see on this forum are on tracks like the ones I have experienced or they are shorter and narrower. Plus when people start out they are going out with instructors at a mellower pace.

What works for you on your tracks , works for you on your tracks. Same goes for me and all of us.They are not all the same obviously , so why does your blanket recommendation make more sense ? All of these cars are daily drivers and nobody like to deal with squeaky brakes 99% of the time for the 1% of the time they are on the track. And not all of us are wanting to swap out pads and or even wheels and tires. People should go out and learn at a regular pace first then advance and upgrade brakes, tires, and/or suspension as they see fit and as needed to advance as the skill level advances and or as the tracks change . This is an IS-F and not a Chevy Malibu or Camry. It comes with good stuff out of the box.

I started out bone stock. Then went to PSS. Then needed more grip and went to a real track set up with the some solid tire sizes. Now I feel the roll more so I may upgrade suspension and even the drivers seat way down the line. Again, its all going to be up to the driver depending on usage, frequency, seriousness, etc. Some people just want a taste. Some people are like us and are a bit more hooked. And then some are like me where they can go literally every 2 weeks if the schedule allows. Again Its all up to the owner, usage, frequency, track lay out, seriousness , need for overall drivability, cost, etc.

With all of the kind of rude comments I have read from you on other people's track postings , why don't you show us how its done on those fast tracks in the south east !?! We'll be here waiting for the video and pics . You told me the first time I posted video that you guys "do it better" . ( that tone is why I am posting this response ). I have seen nothing from you to prove this. Hoping you will add to our track day thread bud.

I'll just be here waiting doing these easy technical courses that require no skill or brakes hoping to pass these weak AWD Porsches , Vettes, Vipers, and Astons.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Do you really want a hard critique of your driving? We can go there if you want. Beating a car is BS. Beating DRIVERS is what make the difference. I really couldn't care less what manufacturer's equipment shows up at your events, I'm a lot more impressed if you actually beat someone fast. I have yet to see that in any of your videos.

Everyone's ability to make track events is balanced on personal responsibilities. A cheap track weekend is $1k, an expensive one the cost of replacing your car. I'll let you figure out the rest of it.

The toughest track in the Southeast for brakes tops out at 112-114 mph. But it has four braking zones where you are scrubbing off more than 60 mph each 2 minute lap. It's not about "fast" vs. slow, it's about how much recovery time your brakes have. I know you haven't been on this forum long enough to see all the track threads, but anyone who is genuinely fast has said the OEM pads melted on track.

SpeedFreaksUSA

iTrader: (1)

This thread is getting a little off topic but I still want to chime with my thoughts since there was a question regarding Thunderhill specifically and l I have a lot of experience driving many different types of cars there. I don't consider Thunderhill's east course (neither bypass nor the "over the hill" configuration) to be particularly "hard" on brakes but maybe that's because I frequent Laguna Seca as well and that track destroys brakes. Even still, the stock equipment can *EASILY* be overworked there depending mostly on the driver's abilities and the tire compound/sizes.

I came on here to answer Tokenblkgy's question specifically but after seeing where the discussion went I guess the same applies to pretty much all tracks. Whether or not you like the way lobuxracer says things, he has pretty much always hit the nail on the head from what I've read over the years here on Club Lexus. There has been a point made in this thread by both lobuxracer and I8ABMR that I can't reinforce enough- what works for you may not work for someone else. Since the focus has turned to how good the stock pads are on the track I'll stick with that. In short the answer is that they were never designed for hard track use and as a result, in the hands of a truly competent driver (a pro) on pretty much any track, they will suck, but luckily not for too long since they will absolutely vaporize when pushed that far beyond their max operating temps.

Here's the bottom line- 99% of new drivers just getting into HPDE events will be fine with a 100% stock car, brakes and all (assuming they have an average natural ability) for at least the first event or two. As they continue to progress the fluid is almost always the first weak link, then depending on rate of progress, specific car and tracks run the stock pads as well as stock or equivalent tires will be the next in line to disappoint on the track. Lack of friction at higher temps, consistency and overall wear will quickly turn to garbage as abilities improve. The IS-F specifically has a pretty good braking system from the factory but it's a heavy car that can register some big numbers on the speedo down the straights. In general I find consumable rates to be a bell curve as someone goes from first timer to a respectable driver over the course of a few years and/or dozens of dozens of track days. The worst point being when the driver is no longer a beginner and has picked up some speed but isn't using proper equipment and is far from displaying a polished technique (overly aggressive inputs all around, bad lines, overall inability to maintain the limitations of what the car, brakes, tires have to offer, etc.) but we can save that discussion for later.

I8ABMR- First of all I wanted to say I like the new wheels/tires (AD08R are my favorite street tire to use on the track). I am happy to hear that your stock pads are working well for you at the moment but I am almost positive that if you continue tracking at the rate you're at and are able to further progress as a driver, you will outgrow the abilities of them in the near future. Even if you don't completely fade them, note your wear characteristics and the consistency throughout a session. How long do a set of stock front pads last you right now on the tracks that you frequent? Can you drive full sessions or are you doing cool down laps mid session? I'm sure this comes as no surprise to you but still I want to make a point that even though you think your stock pads are working great, if you got used to a proper track pad and then went back to stock, I am 99.9% sure you would say the stock pads are horrible on track (relatively speaking). You truly don't know what you're missing if you haven't experienced a proper track pad (especially with tires to take advantage of higher friction levels) and I think that could have something to do with where lobuxracer is coming from.

I know I'm not in an IS-F but here is a quick video from my S2000 at thunderhill east running the "over the hill" configuration. To my point, I've driven a lot of different cars at this track and even in a 200 RWHP S2000 weighing ~2800 lbs on street tires and really only having 2 big brake zones each lap (into T10 and T14), I cannot get away with using anything less than a track pad. I haven't had the chance to drive an IS-F out here yet but I have driven cars of similar weight/power levels and it's even easier to burn the brakes off them.

-Matt M.

I8ABMR

The car's system has held up very well with no fade whatsoever . I do not drive sessions longer than 20 minutes ( haha more like 18 min. We always get jipped a couple of minutes ) . I would absolutely upgrade in the future as needed. Going to be checking out a new track in 2 weeks. It uses the drag strip as a back straight and they say the straight line speed is a bit higher . The oem pads have worked well for me so far on the 4 AZ tracks I have driven, but I understand what you are saying. Its like when a patient tells me they see fine and guy is not legal to drive ( happens all the time ). We subjectively adapt to what we have . My issue is noise and the pads killing the rotors. I don't want to EVER hear my brakes and I'm not willing to compromise streetability for track performance when it comes to noise. My car is a daily and I want the duality. We still use the luxury far more than the sport on the street. I am doing track days frequently and have been simply burning up street tires and oem pads. I know it's not ideal but it works well to meet my needs on the street and they have bee fine so far. I have never had fade, warping of the rotors, .....not even the burning smell when I come off.

I guess what I am out to show is that you can take the F on the track right out of the box. And you dont need to be a grease monkey , race tech, rocket scientist, or Mari Andretti to enjoy your car on the track . I am also out to show people that the car can handle it and will start up and take you to the office on Monday, after a nice wash and spray wax . The only thing I have is totally clogged drilled holes in the rotors. I always do a cool down lap on the track and in the parking lot before I come to a stop . I will absoluetly be asking questions when I need to upgrade . Thanks for the info buddy.

I wasn't disagreeing with Lobux as much as simply saying most are in the 99% ( and start there too ) and will be just fine with oem pads on most tracks and people should upgrade depending on use, tracks, streetability,etc. If I ever get to one of those crazy fast tracks I will be all over a new set of pads and rotors.



PS HOT DAMN THAT WAS AN AMAZING VIDEO....LMAO BRO DID YOU EVEN USE THE BRAKES????. That thing doesnt even lean through the corners. AMAZING !! Very cool to watch , Matt. Dude you can drive that S2k like a ****.

Tokenblkgy

Matt, Tammer, Lobuxracer

Thank you all for your feedback. I appreciate it. I have had my F for little over a month now and I was talking with Tammer offline about how this car and watching his videos and pictures have made me interested in tracking again. When I got the Prelude SH back in 99 that is pretty much all I did for 4 years before I moved to Cali and fell off. Raced at some of the better tracks in OK and Texas I lived for it. Almost made it to Thunder hill with the Prelude club of Norcal back in the day but deployment to Iraq killed that.

Since I'm new to the F and I see Tammer is doing things on the Oem set up in gave me a little reassurance that I don't need to drop thousands to get out there for a good time. I just remember when I took my prelude out for one of the first lessons before I had an instructor I toasted the fluid and brakes. That could have been to learning the car possibly drivers techniques but I never wanted to go thought that again. one of the trips it was before I knew how to bleed brakes and I was all the way at Hallet outside of OKC and I had to drive 3.5 hrs home on **** brakes and rotors. So from that day I learned how to bleed brakes , pad compounds, rotors, and right compound for tires etc. I had tires I had sway bars but I didn't have the right braking equipment. So I don't want to go through that.

On the street I love the brakes on the ISF, they are allot stronger than the 4Pot Brembos ( for obvious reasons) I had on my Volvo S60R I just sold to get the F ( those brakes were great too), I never tracked to Volvo because I was afraid to break something. ( it had its issues with certain stuff) but I did allot of spirited driving in the mountains of northern California so that was good enough for me. I feel the F can be a great car to learn on and I really want to learn how to drive this car other than going fast in a straight line on back access roads. I also would rather do it on a track than worry about the cops getting me.

Looking forward to hearing more on this and watching your guys videos and such. I like the lines that you guys are driving on the tracks.

Ev