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magnetorheological shocks are a GM/ Delphi thing. Ferrari paid for the technology usage as did Acura for the MDX and Audi for the TT and R8. Other than that its GM cars only .
Placing the same untuned rcf engine in the gsf is pure laziness by Lexus. There's no denying this. Yaguchi said more power can be extracted from this engine and then proceeds to do nothing. So much anticipation for this car and they pull this crap. This is unprecedented. Imagine an m4 engine in the m5. Blasphemy in the bimmer world. Lexus should have labeled this car the gs 500 f sport or rcf sedan and then nobody will complain. The F brand deserves better. This is a mediocre attempt at best. After finally equaling the nurburgring time of the m3 with the last ISF and being competitive with the m4 in the rcf, the F brand took a step backward with the gsf. I guess Lexus' top of the line engine could only compete with the competitions' second best car in its segment (550, s6, v sport) Lexus fanboys will claim Lexus is doing their own thing and not trying to compete with ///m, AMG, or RS....then Lexus runs ads competing with ///M, AMG , etc. Excuses are excuses. The car is great and will sell (if priced appropriately), just not worthy of the F brand. I have been flamed as juvenile for saying this, but at this level, image, badge, and bragging rights do matter. My 2 pennies. Feel free to disagree.
Let's face it... there's no practical difference between 450 and 550hp in a real world application. Sure, the CTSV and M5 are going to be much faster than the GSF in a highway race, on a drag strip, 0-60, and probably on a road course as well. But honestly, when does that power ever actually come in to play? It's nice to say you have it, and it's nice to know you're the fastest thing on the street at any particular stoplight, but how many buyers of the M5, CTSV or GSF are going to use the full brunt of the power on a regular basis? The numbers are nice to talk about, but dangerous/illegal to use. Now I get it, by this argument, we should all be driving a Prius... but my point is that if you are in a fast performance vehicle that can do 0-60 in 4.3 seconds, getting one that can do 0-60 in 3.9 seconds isn't going to make any real difference to you 99% of the time, so choosing your car based on that metric alone seems foolish.
I disagree, and surprised that this came from an F owner. Are you saying that your IS-F has no practical difference with an IS350 99% of the time? If so, that's a lot of extra $$$ for 1%.
Unless you are sitting in 5mph traffic 99% of the time, the extra power is absolutely noticeable in daily driving at far less than 10/10ths. Passing, merging, maneuvering, all of these are practical scenarios that are far more difficult for a lower power car. And that's not including all the fun on all open roads and the fact that a good number of buyers are not using these cars as their dailies (Meaning more opportunities to drive for fun, even outside of a track).
And this is only regarding power. Driving dynamics (i.e. transitions, handling, braking, etc etc) are also readily apparent in everyday driving, and track performance is usually a good indication of those factors when translated/filtered down to the street. Hypothetically, I'm willing to bet that you'd be able to drive an M5 and GSF back-to-back in a commute from pt.A to pt.B without ever looking at the dash, and one car will perform noticeably better than the other.
I disagree, and surprised that this came from an F owner. Are you saying that your IS-F has no practical difference with an IS350 99% of the time? If so, that's a lot of extra $$$ for 1%.
Unless you are sitting in 5mph traffic 99% of the time, the extra power is absolutely noticeable in daily driving at far less than 10/10ths. Passing, merging, maneuvering, all of these are practical scenarios that are far more difficult for a lower power car. And that's not including all the fun on all open roads and the fact that a good number of buyers are not using these cars as their dailies (Meaning more opportunities to drive for fun, even outside of a track).
And this is only regarding power. Driving dynamics (i.e. transitions, handling, braking, etc etc) are also readily apparent in everyday driving, and track performance is usually a good indication of those factors when translated/filtered down to the street. Hypothetically, I'm willing to bet that you'd be able to drive an M5 and GSF back-to-back in a commute from pt.A to pt.B without ever looking at the dash, and one car will perform noticeably better than the other.
Just my 2 cents.
You've over-extended my argument. I specifically said there's no practical difference between 450hp and 550hp in a real world application. That does not automatically mean my argument applies to the ISF vs. the IS350. The IS350 has 306hp. Horsepower is inversely proportional to street utility. Put another way, there is a point where you have so much horsepower that it is hard to get any benefit of the extra power on the street, and as horsepower figures go up, the benefit goes down. So there's a world of difference between a 200hp car and a 300hp car on the street, but there's almost zero difference between a 600hp car and a 700hp car on the street.
There's a lot of hand-wringing in this thread about the fact that the GSF is only going to have 470hp when it's competitors are at 550 plus. My point is that those differences are really only going to be evident on the track. I doubt many people are going to drive the GSF under normal applications on the street and think the car is too slow. And my larger point is that I really don't think Lexus was aiming at the potential buyers that are interested in winning the horsepower wars anyway. 470hp isn't the problem with the GSF in my opinion.
more power can always be extracted but does it meet durability, emissions, mileage targets? RCF GT3 has 540 hp, but im sure its not geared towards emissions and durability the same way a street car is.
The only thing that is highlighted is the Brakes, Steering, Engine Throttle & Shift Response...
We have already confirmed this FACT...
Also, if it helps I have spent some quality time under a production RC F... There is NO (Adaptive Variable Suspension) AVS....
Originally Posted by XpediencY
I dunno... Test drove it the other day and there was a difference in comfort between regular and sport+ on the RCF.
Lexus website acknowledges this and also this picture even highlights the suspension components as well...
Maybe we aren't talking about the same thing? What's the difference between sport+ on F sport vs the F?
Per Lexus's website:
Independent, double-wishbone with forged-aluminum components, coil springs, gas-pressurized electronically controlled shock absorbers and hollow stabilizer bar
Drive Mode Select enables you to make your vehicle more responsive or efficient with a simple turn of the switch. Sport mode alters the powertrain for more dynamic throttle response while Sport S+ mode adds steering and suspension system enhancements to help provide a higher level of responsiveness.
Below is how the Sport S + looks like in a GS 350 FSport (V6)
Placing the same untuned rcf engine in the gsf is pure laziness by Lexus. There's no denying this. Yaguchi said more power can be extracted from this engine and then proceeds to do nothing. So much anticipation for this car and they pull this crap. This is unprecedented. Imagine an m4 engine in the m5. Blasphemy in the bimmer world. Lexus should have labeled this car the gs 500 f sport or rcf sedan and then nobody will complain. The F brand deserves better. This is a mediocre attempt at best. After finally equaling the nurburgring time of the m3 with the last ISF and being competitive with the m4 in the rcf, the F brand took a step backward with the gsf. I guess Lexus' top of the line engine could only compete with the competitions' second best car in its segment (550, s6, v sport) Lexus fanboys will claim Lexus is doing their own thing and not trying to compete with ///m, AMG, or RS....then Lexus runs ads competing with ///M, AMG , etc. Excuses are excuses. The car is great and will sell (if priced appropriately), just not worthy of the F brand. I have been flamed as juvenile for saying this, but at this level, image, badge, and bragging rights do matter. My 2 pennies. Feel free to disagree.
You are not fully quoting what was said. Yaguchi specifically stated more power would come "in later iterations". Whether this means simply a year model or a 2nd gen RCF/GSF, I don't know. The same engine being placed into the GSF was likely a decision made long before determining that they can get more power from that engine. It is also likely attributable to a timeline/deadline they had in place (i.e. RCF - 4Q14, GSF - 1Q15), so delaying the launch of the 1st-gen GSF in order to extract more power was not even considered.
Look at the quality Lexus produces. Calling this move "lazy" is just naive. If Lexus was lazy, we would be *****ing about the shop as much as the German owners. But we don't. Did Lexus miss on this opportunity? Appears like it at the moment. However, I would suggest reviewing the ISF's evolution. Don't put it past this team to equal the Germans within 3 years.
You are not fully quoting what was said. Yaguchi specifically stated more power would come "in later iterations". Whether this means simply a year model or a 2nd gen RCF/GSF, I don't know. The same engine being placed into the GSF was likely a decision made long before determining that they can get more power from that engine. It is also likely attributable to a timeline/deadline they had in place (i.e. RCF - 4Q14, GSF - 1Q15), so delaying the launch of the 1st-gen GSF in order to extract more power was not even considered.
Look at the quality Lexus produces. Calling this move "lazy" is just naive. If Lexus was lazy, we would be *****ing about the shop as much as the German owners. But we don't. Did Lexus miss on this opportunity? Appears like it at the moment. However, I would suggest reviewing the ISF's evolution. Don't put it past this team to equal the Germans within 3 years.
I hope you are right. But how do you feel about Lexus putting the same engine from a segment below into the highest performance car a segment above? It's basically an RCF with 4 doors. This car seems to compete with the likes of the 550, S6, V-sport (the segment's second best car). What does this say about F? On par with ///M, AMG, RS? I guess we'll have to settle for the reliability card again.
I hope you are right. But how do you feel about Lexus putting the same engine from a segment below into the highest performance car a segment above? It's basically an RCF with 4 doors. This car seems to compete with the likes of the 550, S6, V-sport (the segment's second best car). What does this say about F? On par with ///M, AMG, RS? I guess we'll have to settle for the reliability card again.
I tend to agree with you here. I'm less bothered by the amount of horsepower when compared to other's in the class, but more bothered by the lack of imagination that seems to have been put in to the GSF. The ISF was skunkworks project that was surprising and successful all at the same time. It really put Lexus on the map and changed the brand image. Very cool. The RCF, though criticized by many, had the feel of a car that was also well thought out, with a lot of neat features and planning. Love it or hate it, it was a good effort by Lexus. The GSF is leaving us with a bit of confusion, because it doesn't seem like they really tried that hard to develop something new. I think we all were hoping for something NEW about the GSF rather than it to basically be a 4 door RCF.
So for me, a potential buyer, I'm not really excited about the GSF. I am planning on waiting to see what Lexus does with the ISF (still hoping they're developing something new) and in the meantime going to continue to enjoy the ISF that I have.
I hope you are right. But how do you feel about Lexus putting the same engine from a segment below into the highest performance car a segment above? It's basically an RCF with 4 doors. This car seems to compete with the likes of the 550, S6, V-sport (the segment's second best car). What does this say about F? On par with ///M, AMG, RS? I guess we'll have to settle for the reliability card again.
Don't get me wrong, I hate what they did. When I heard it, I literally . After the anger subsided though (and remembering what Yaguchi said), I had to ask myself, "why would they do that?" It's well known that Lexus doesn't aim to put itself in the pony race, but they did just that with the ISF. So we expect more immediately now. I get that. Then I considered the timing of it all; being right on the heels of the RCF launch. It was probably their original intention all along.
Trust me, I'm sure they're hearing all about the F enthusiasts displeasure. And with Yaguchi saying what he did LONG before we knew the numbers, I'm confident we'll see a better version in the next couple of years.
Besides, I'm not worried. I'm waiting for the 2018 ISF to come out.
I tend to agree with you here. I'm less bothered by the amount of horsepower when compared to other's in the class, but more bothered by the lack of imagination that seems to have been put in to the GSF. The ISF was skunkworks project that was surprising and successful all at the same time. It really put Lexus on the map and changed the brand image. Very cool. The RCF, though criticized by many, had the feel of a car that was also well thought out, with a lot of neat features and planning. Love it or hate it, it was a good effort by Lexus. The GSF is leaving us with a bit of confusion, because it doesn't seem like they really tried that hard to develop something new. I think we all were hoping for something NEW about the GSF rather than it to basically be a 4 door RCF.
So for me, a potential buyer, I'm not really excited about the GSF. I am planning on waiting to see what Lexus does with the ISF (still hoping they're developing something new) and in the meantime going to continue to enjoy the ISF that I have.
Taking into account what Yaguchi stated that the GSF is a choice for buyers who don't want a two door RCF, I think a future ISF is dead in the water. Why even make an ISF with the RCF engine when you already have that in the GSF? Furthermore, the current IS engine bay will not fit a V8--if that's an indication of anything...
Taking into account what Yaguchi stated that the GSF is a choice for buyers who don't want a two door RCF, I think a future ISF is dead in the water. Why even make an ISF with the RCF engine when you already have that in the GSF? Furthermore, the current IS engine bay will not fit a V8--if that's an indication of anything...
The original IS F can with a bulging hood, so they should have learnt from that and planned accordingly, I wonder why they can still keep come up with an issue like that
The originally IS F can with a bulging hood, so they should have learnt from that and planned accordingly, I wonder why they can still keep come up with an issue like that
What are you talking about? They did plan accordingly. Their plan is to discontinue the ISF. Lol.
When will Lexus come up with something that would put everyone on notice again like when the first LS debuted or when it had the world's fastest production sedan in the GS? Something wicked may have turned into something whacked (as another poster wrote). Can't take credit for that. Lol.
Picked this up at "The Lexus Enthusiast this morning:
In advance of the Lexus GS F’s debut at the Detroit Auto Show this week, Automobile Magazine has an interview with chief engineer Yukihiko Yaguchi answering one of the bigger questions about the new super-sedan:
Automobile: Was there any thought given to increasing power given that the Lexus GS F is bigger and heavier than the RC F, or are you confident it will perform with sedans in the similar class?
Yaguchi-san: The cars’ performance is almost the same so I want customers to choose which they like: sedan or coupe between RC F and GS F, as that is a matter of taste. The GS F will offer a Lexus F brand performance experience with a focus on fun and an easy-to-drive experience, while balancing its street and track character.
There’s definitely been some concern in the enthusiast community about the GS F using the very same 467-horsepower V8 engine from the RC F, especially when the competition is the 560-hp BMW M5 and 577-hp Mercedes E63.
On the flip side, the full picture has yet to be revealed — little is known about the GS F besides its engine. Pricing will have a significant impact on perception, and there’s more to performance than horsepower (though a 100+ horsepower gap against its competitors makes for a significant handicap.)
There’s some other small details in the Yaguchi-san interview worth pointing out:
A: The F performance brand is now been expanded to two main line models. How much further would you like to expand it?
Y: We don’t have future plans yet that we can share, but the F brand is a key part of Lexus globally going forward.
A: Is there a desire or need to create another halo type vehicle along the lines of the Lexus LFA as an ultimate expression of the F performance brand?
Y: The Lexus RC F-based race car will take that responsibility instead. The RC F GT3 story will evolve in the coming year to help become an ultimate expression of F brand globally.
01-11-15, 09:23 PM
. After the anger subsided though (and remembering what Yaguchi said), I had to ask myself, "why would they do that?" It's well known that Lexus doesn't aim to put itself in the pony race, but they did just that with the ISF. So we expect more immediately now. I get that. Then I considered the timing of it all; being right on the heels of the RCF launch. It was probably their original intention all along. 
