melbitoast

iTrader: (1)

I think it's just a psychological thing, honestly. Being able to legitimately say it has 500hp just feels/sounds better.

chris07is

iTrader: (10)

adding 33 whp is huge....i mean, still additional HP + maybe aftermarket stuff...so 500+...

Gojirra99

Lexus fans already had very lowered expectations fòr the horsepower of this GS from the rumours, that extra 33 hp would NOT make it super amazing, just barely passable.
People will be really happy if it reaches 550, and it will be super amazing @ 600+ ...

Fsport2UR

Doubt we will see another ISF as well. Toyota/Lexus here in the US already made it clear they do not like competing class cars. Even though the IS and GS are supposedly different classes, they are right next to each other. Having two sedans with the same high performance engine would be competing with one another and effect sales. V8s do not sell well in Japan because they have a drastic tax on engine size, which is why the ISF was more of an export for Toyota/Lexus and why there are more ISFs outside of Japan.

drbazing

I see the same parallel scenario with the current IS350 and GS350.

imp0rted1

i think for most of us to be satisfied and consider it to be a rival to E63/M5 lexus would have had to release that TMG prototype of the LS sedan or something along those lines


http://www.autoblog.com/2013/09/05/t...-tested-video/

I8ABMR

HP/Weight ratios

GSF : 8.7 LBS/HP

BMW M5 : 7.8 LBS/HP ( 7.6 lbs/HP with the 575 HP competition package )

Mercedes E63 AMG : 7.6 LBS/HP

Audi RS7 : 7.9 LB/HP

New Cadillac CTSV : 6.4 LB/HP ( DAMN !! )

Lexus ISF : 9.2 LB/HP ( for reference )

Lexus RCF : 8.5 LB/HP ( for reference )

Ideally Lexus would get us into the high 7s.........low 8s.

We all know HP isnt everything , but in this class bragging rights mean something. The GSF will weigh in at about 200-400 lbs lighter than any car in its class, but when you do a torque comparison the figures look worse. The GSF will be relatively nimble which is great in the corners, but kind of hard to make up for 100-145 lb/ft of torque with good corner exit. I know it will be great car. I was just hoping for an amazing car. Something that would raise the benchmark. Looks like the zee Germans will continue to do that. I love that Lexus has a contender in the fight. Just dont want to see it get knocked out. Looking forward to the reviews.

flowrider

iTrader: (9)

Allright, i started this thread, maybe I should now voice an opinion. I will never own a blown engine - NEVER Just don't trust 'em and I don't like 'em. Sure my F is modified, but blown - Again NEVER. Naturally Aspirated for me. Lot's of reasons which I really won't go into here.

My desired engine configuration would be a 90⁰ V8, preferably with OH Cams and 32 valves. In this day and age, what choice does that leave me?

From where I sit - An RCF, a GSF, an Aston Martin Vantage or ???? Couple of Pushrod V8s out there, Camaro SS, Vette, Chevy SS, Mustang.

Mr. BMR listed some calculations. Now, I will list some.

JoeZ has said he expects (with our transmission, engine type and driveline) that we lose approximately 17% of HP at the wheels. Let's go with this.

My F, with intake, headers, exhaust (with cats) dynos @ 393RWHP. a stock ISF dynos somewhere near 345RWHP (our friend - a 17% loss). Using the 17% figure, my gross, at the flywheel should be 473HP.

The RCF/GSF should dyno @ 387RWHP (and I believe one has). So, if my numbers make any sense, if we do headers, intake and exhaust (with cats). and gain the same 48RWHP I did on my F, we should be looking at 524HP at the flywheel.

(387 + 48 = 435. 435/.83 = 524.

All you folks have been talking about 500 to 550HP, and there we have it.

Just my opinion, not so bad after all. When, and if, I get rid of my F, both the RCF and GSF will be on my list.

Lou

Bigcloud

Your calculations deserve merit, but you cant negate that other cars can do the same and more. Its not really apples to apples. Since lexus will not put a FI performance motor out all they have left is to increase displacement. 5.3-5.6 liters sounds good. If their premise is immediate throttle response then this is the way to go.

Fsport2UR

I can respect anyones decision to stay NA, but in this day and age, FI is where it is at. FI takes any underpowered small engine and brings it to the next level. So for a high performance large displacement V8 engine, it sends it in to the elite class in my opinion, with more room to modify.

The GSF for what it is, it seems promising, but when you look at that competition, it just falls way way short in comparison.

BMW M5 : Twin Turbo 4.4L V8

Mercedes E63 AMG : Twin Turbo 5.5L V8

Audi RS7 : Twin Turbo 4.0L V8

New Cadillac CTSV : Supercharged 6.2L V8

On topic of bigger displacement and FI. Consider this. The 5.7liter 3UR-FE Tundra engine would be a a excellent choice, just needs a tweek and the D4-S system added(hello 3UR-GSE). I bet that setup will easily net +500hp and be reliable. TRD already offers a Supercharger for the 5.7L 3UR-FE that bumps power to 504hp w/ 550lb·ft of torque(warranty included). A daily +500hp engine is nothing new to Toyota/Lexus, but they just don't want to seem to do it.
Praying for a 2UR-GTE. Or a 3UR-GTE.

vbb

iTrader: (3)

Lou:
I respect your opinion and perspective on most things, but I can't believe you went to the "if you mod it then the power is there" argument. When you compare cars in the same class across different car manufacturers, the only fair way to compare them is in their stock form with similar tires. Anything else is a pretty useless comparison.

Lexus has not kept up with the horsepower war that is raging in the car world, at least not with the GSF. BUT, my argument is that it doesn't matter. First, don't we think Lexus, if it wanted to, could make a car with more horsepower? Of course they could have. But obviously Lexus is not aiming at the buyer who just wants the car with the most power. They're aiming for the buyer that might care about the other things... NA over FI, reliability, gas mileage, tech, quality... they know that they're not making the fastest car in the class, and I suspect they're fine with that decision.

Let's face it... there's no practical difference between 450 and 550hp in a real world application. Sure, the CTSV and M5 are going to be much faster than the GSF in a highway race, on a drag strip, 0-60, and probably on a road course as well. But honestly, when does that power ever actually come in to play? It's nice to say you have it, and it's nice to know you're the fastest thing on the street at any particular stoplight, but how many buyers of the M5, CTSV or GSF are going to use the full brunt of the power on a regular basis? The numbers are nice to talk about, but dangerous/illegal to use. Now I get it, by this argument, we should all be driving a Prius... but my point is that if you are in a fast performance vehicle that can do 0-60 in 4.3 seconds, getting one that can do 0-60 in 3.9 seconds isn't going to make any real difference to you 99% of the time, so choosing your car based on that metric alone seems foolish.

I don't pick my cars on pure horsepower figures alone. It's the total package that counts. That all said, my biggest gripe with the GSF is the frankenstein-like styling. It just doesn't look right to me. I realize I'm a total homer with this, but of the 3 "F" models that are available, given the relative cost differences, I'd MUCH rather pick up a 2014 ISF over a 2015 RCF or a 2016 GSF.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

all of these are easily 110-120k cars, the GSF wil be no where near this price. The CTS-V is the only one out of these that will be under 100k loaded. How many people out there can drop 120k on a car vs how many that can drop 80-85k which a GSF may cost. That is a huge price difference. Wonder how big the complaints would be if a GSF was 120k to compete with M5/E63/RS7

Sure if youre comparing just performance specs, but youre getting the 8 year old interior, looks, and chassis. 2012 would be a lot better deal over the 2014 ISF. The chassis on the latest lexus cars are much better than last gen. IS350 F Sport almost has the same time on C&D Lightning Lap as an 08 ISF. That is all chassis and suspension changes between generations. 3IS and 4GS are now truly 3 and 5 series beaters. It was night and day between by 2IS and 3IS. My 2IS is still around for me to look at and compare.

Gojirra99

BUT a 500+ hp GS F would still not be a $100k car even fully loaded. If they add say around 50 hp to the GS F to push it over the 500 threshold, I would say the car can still only be priced a few thousand dollars more ...

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

and 500 hp is still not enough to compete with those cars

Gojirra99

517 hp is now only 33 short from the M5 and car would still be lighter and more nimble than the 7 based elephant, plus much better price to boot, suddenly things would look so much more competitive and better ...