NYKnick101

Yeah, I know on stock ECU with stock everything, you can easily get 450 to the wheels but thats about it. If you really want like in depth tuning, you can run a custom standalone system if worse comes to worse. but thats $$$. So there really IS a tuning option, just not affordable for the average IS user.

There is a Twin Turbo IS-F in Australia that uses a custom Motec EMS that squeezed 600 hp out the stock motor on 6psi but like I said, after that point, your getting into race car territory

Sylvan

iTrader: (6)

Has anyone on this forum tried to run a full standalone? I had a ViPEC V88 on my G35 although it was expensive to buy the unit and have it wired in it was well worth it. I did have issues with check engine and traction control lguts being on but it ran flawless

darbs242

iTrader: (5)

Pro efi spent six months a year or two ago. Wired all their sensors in custom, they said they had 4-5 grand in hardware. Did not work. There are mult serious walls in the way. You can find the thread threw the search bar.

I have spoke with Jeff Evans about motec and he said it can not be done, and told me there is not a system on the market that will be tuning the isf in the foreseeable future.

Sylvan

iTrader: (6)

Ok thank you, Pro EFI is a great system so if they couldn't get around the factory ECU I doubt it can be done. You do need a level of integration with factory ECUs, it's not like 15 years ago would you could run a standalone and litteraly pull the factory ECU right out.

v8sedan

Not worth it in my opinion, I've put a supercharger kit on my previous bmw 328, yeah I manage to get 100 more whp out of it, but also throw all of its reliability out the Window, and at the end, you will depreciate the car a lot, no one will wants to buy it cause its been touched, anyway, 416hp stock is the reason I bought it, fast, reliable, it's an amazing car as it is !!

Swacer

The LSx motor for the most case is a bulletproof design. It is designed to fail rods and lifters before a gernading occurs. Which, coming from years of drag racing and building SBCs, thats an ideal situation. You'd rather a design where small parts fail in order to save the big boom.

In regards to the LS7, the engine Naturally Aspirated is a great package. Are you eluding to the issues if you boost it? If so, I agree with you. Its a problem between the modding world, and GM trying to shove 427 cubic inch into a small block. The cylinder walls are just too thin for boosted applications. If someone is dumb enough to try that, they will certainly be dumb enough to be ordering a new block when they throw a piston through it.

As for the LTx, I left that out intentionally. I have no idea what GM is doing....

And the same back to you. I do not intend to insult the IS-F. I find it a shame that you guys are so limited on what you can do. However, I was flamed when the first comment came out that domestic products are so unreliable. Of course it can unreliable, I'm trying to make 6,7,800 hp. lol Only thing I can say to that is, "when was the last time you saw a gearhead say, yep, everything is exactly how I want it"? lol

Bigcloud

Sylvan your name looks familiar. I had a 350z and was on my350z a lot. I'm trying to remember your car. Was it the twin turbo G35 build by Dynosty??

NYKnick101

Technically you can run a full standalone but you are ripping everything out of the car to get the engine to run on its own computer. The IS also comes with an auto so you would need a TCU as well. I I am not sure if the IS TCU is independent from the engines ECU. At my buddies shop, they have a couple cars with Standalone systems but all manual cars.

Also if I remember correctly Pro-EFI and MOTEC were all looking for Piggyback systems and systems that ran along side the stock ECU which I can name a list of walls that can be ran into. MoTec Australia has an IS-F standalone that runs a NA engine, with custom transmission, but its gutted race car, you dont put what you dont need. And its more recent i think. To my knowledge there are no immediate tuning options that will make power, and keep all your vehicle amenities that run into the ECU. You would be running a custom wire harness with custom program. So it IS possible, but will run big money before any true break throughs.

Most of these companies do tunes for mass production for guys like us that own these cars and want to make power. The project was dropped because not everyone is going to gut a Lexus and take it to the race track even though I think the car is awesome. They are interested more in the guys who want plug and play options like GT-R's, subies, etc.

Long story short. Possible? YES Expensive? YES

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

If you are referring to my post, I never said they're unreliable. I said Toyota is not Chevrolet, and Toyota typically over-engineer their engines so they don't have warranty issues. Or at least, this used to be the case. Not quite so sure with all the quality problems lately - coolant pumps, fan bolts, fuel system seals...none of this is what we historically expect from Toyota.

My point was simple - Toyota builds everything forged except the pistons, and the pistons they use are typically very understressed. The 2JZ-GTE is one of the best examples simply because the OEM build supports more than doubling the output without requiring any aftermarket internals. If you're clever and use a rising rate regulator, you can even use the stock injectors because they used sidefeed low impedance units, and the fuel rail with injectors has been tested at 125 psi in operation. Again, a real testament to the basic design being far beyond what is necessary. At the same time this was available from Toyota, Nissan offered a Z car with a turbo, as did Mitsubishi and Mazda. None of these other platforms were as easy and cheap to make power.

I grew up with circle track racing in the midwest. Chevrolet and Plymouth. SBC and Hemi. My dad worked in a shop building engines with parts from Richard Petty, and the team owner was a personal friend of Richard (who was in his prime at the time). I've seen a thing or two inside a pushrod engine, and I know how they're built from the factory. I also know factory builds are unfortunately prone to failure from friends who have bought (and destroyed) any number of SBC powered toys. It doesn't mean you can't build a good one, but it does mean the factory build is heavily influenced by the accounting team and not the engineering team. Just like everyone knows why the Corvette originally started using a factory Mobil 1 fill - they were too cheap to put an oil cooler on it. The engineers said we need an oil cooler. The accountants said fill it with Mobil 1 and we'll get a low enough failure rate to still make money. It's just how Detroit does business. I could go on and on with example after example, but the fundamental issue is, Detroit only started caring about quality because the Japanese forced them to do it. Milwaukee's finest, Harley Davidson, was forced by the Japanese to address quality issues because Harley Davidson would not do the right thing until they saw market share disappearing and the company's viability threatened.

So I'm not saying unreliable. I'm saying only as good as the accounting team will let them be. Too much short term thinking, and not enough long term thinking.

And the other part - at some point in life, you realize the quest for power is just another one of life's quests. I'm definitely a gearhead, but I got tired of pressing the start button and not getting started for some small reason or another. I got tired of modified parts failing at inopportune times. I got tired of buying parts "guaranteed" to make more power but only made more noise and seriously threatened reliability. There's a reason my IS-F is pretty stock, and there's a reason my Supra is pretty stock. They always start (unless I let the battery die), they never strand me anywhere, I've never had to flatbed one home, and they've been easy to maintain.

I went to an HPDE two years ago this coming March, and a good friend happened to be instructing. My wife was chatting with him about his student before they went out on track. We never got to speak to him again, his student hit a patch of coolant, spun the car into the trees and he died on impact. This kind of thing isn't supposed to happen at an HPDE. I called my dad about it, and he asked a really good question. "So at some point you have to ask yourself what are you trying to prove, and who are you trying to prove it to?"

I appreciate his wisdom.

Fsport2UR

Newb here. But just got in to a 2008 ISF and have been lurking for the past month on this forum. Finally decided to register after reading this post and wanted to chime in.

How come no one here has brought up the Lexus LS650 built by TMG(Toyota Motorsports Germany)? They dropped in a 2UR-GSE engine, twinturbocharged it, and managed to squeeze 800hp out of it before 'detuning' it to 650hp.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...ls650-tmg.html
I find it odd that most people here are ready to throw in the towel and discourage others of the idea on turbocharging this engine or even modifying beyond headers, exhaust, and intake(sounds like 1990 all over again). The 2JZ-GTE actually went through the same process. Too expensive to mod. Too expensive to tune. No support because of the little market of Supra owners. Only cheesy piggyback systems available. I remember when HKS offered a intercooler pipe with 2 extra fuel injectors installed in front of the throttlebody to spray in to the engine for added fuel...how reliable you think that was? The true potential of a stock 2JZ engine actually was not known until late 90s early 2000s(after the Supra already had been discontinued). Personally(my other car being a Supra MK4 also), after witnessing the tuning evolution of the 2JZ-GTE engine, I just believe the 2UR could be the next great tuner engine of Toyota. Hell, with the 2UR engine now being continued in the RCF, you would think more support would be inevitable down the pipe. The main obstacle right now is the cost of the engine. The 2JZ engine became cheaper and more plentiful as the years went on because that engine was also offered in the Aristo and Soarer, so used 2JZs were everywhere...that lead to people pushing their engines to the limit and not caring if they blew their engines as they could easily source and build another one. And to me it was the tuner shops here in the States that led the way for that engine. If they can crack the GTR and are able to tune 1000hp out of it on a tranny that is most likely more complex than a ISF, I really don't believe our car is "impossible".
My own thoughts of FI on a 2UR engine. Go for it. But if going beyond 9psi. Standalone is a must. Upgraded fuel system is a must. It is $$$. It is nearly all custom fab work, but that is how it always starts. And majority of the time, it will cost you an engine. Right now to me, even though this car and engine have been around since 2008, it may still be too early in the game...plus nobody likes the idea of their own ISF being the R&D guinea pig for anything. But if TMG did it, why can't we?

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

TMG has Toyota software available for their development the same way SARD does.

Toyota will never offer tuning software or access to their engine code by the general public. They never have, and they never will.

No standalone system supports 16 injectors. Yet.

No OEM's variable cam timing algorithms are accessible, least of all Toyota's.

The RCF has sort of the same engine but with the addition of Atkinson cycle operation, they've taken the ECM parameters to a whole new level.

Sorry, but it just won't happen for anything like a reasonable price.

Oh, and the 2JZ thing - not all 2JZs are built to the same standard. Ask anyone about the rods in the IS300 compared to the rods in a Supra. No comparison at all...

And nobody was too worried about popping a 2JZ because Toyota supplied short blocks for $1650. The V-160 gearbox was almost 4 times the price.

jiggahwh0

i daily my car with no problems..i bought lowlife_isf kit and we are close friends and the car ran really well thats why i decided to grab it off him. yes it has a small flat spot around 3k WOT that needs tuning but other than that it runs good i havent had any problems yet...

Sylvan

iTrader: (6)

Do you have a link to your build? Do you have fuel upgrades? I have a friend of mine that is the owner of boosted performance he primarily builds nissan turbo kits but he did want to build one for the F. I am not sure it's something I want to deal with on this car. Coming from the VQ cars, I find information sharing limited on this forum hell guys still keep wheel offsets secret over here. I noticed several guys with FI builds say "it's running" then disappear or part out. It is very encouraging you have success. Thank you for any info you are willing to share.


Another my350z'er I notice a few of us. I was Sylvan Lake V35 I had a home built car, it was a 3.8L TT

IlikemyISF

Fsport didn't even mention the IS300 2JZ... Any Supra (or 2JZ) enthusiast recognizes that there's a world of difference between the bulletproof GTE and the slightly less capable GE.

Fsport2UR

I understand TMG and SARD and all other Toyota related racing organization have access to Toyota software. The point I am making is it is possible. Toyota is no different than all other manufactures and their ECUs have been hacked before. I'm sure you remember G-Force, and that was very early in the game for Supra tuning. That maybe 20 years ago, but others have hacked later model Toyotas.

Are you sure nobody makes a standalone that supports 16 injectors? ProEFI claims to. And there are several 16 inj powered V8s coming from the domestic crowd. Maybe have a custom setup with 8 Injectors on the ISF with a standalone. Sometimes people just need to lose the new tech and go with a general basic setup to make things less complicated.

In regards to variable cam timing - the 97-98 Supras were equipped with VVTi. Although different in the ISF, still has been done on a VVT Toyota. There are several Supra owners running different types of standalones on 97-98 Supras and maintaining the VVTi sys. While Dual VVT-iE is new tech, Dual VVT-i has been around since the late 90s and others have worked around it and/or with it on other Toyotas. Still early in my opinion for the VVT-iE, but I bet someone will find a way around it, as VVT-iE will be available on more Toyota vehicles in the near future. The VVT-iE may even be a plus, considering it is now electronically controlled.

No way I am saying the 2JZ-GE is in the same league "bone stock". Who builds an engine on a stock 2JZ-GE engine anyways, when you can get a complete assembled 2JZ-GTE short block(w/ crank, rods, pistons) from Toyota for $2500 that can hold 700hp. I will say though, the 2JZ-GE block is just as stout as the GTE block, I know several folks who bought cheap GE blocks and completely built them(rods and pistons) to +700hp. The crank is actually identical on both. As for the oil squirters on the GTE, they are overrated and not really necessary when going beyond stock power.


But as I mentioned, cost of trial and error(ie blowing engines) is a major factor and holds back development. Last I checked a complete 2UR-GSE short block cost $11.5k. And we won't be seeing any cheap 2UR-GSE front clips coming from Japan any time soon.