CCLSVTF

I agree that Lexus has less issues them BMW but that doesn't mean that there are no Lexus' out there that also do not have tons of issues!!!! But for him to say that, "Lexus' never usually have problems" just just false. Cars are luck of the draw. You might get a good one or you might get a bad one. Of course you want the best chances as possible of getting a good car but that doesn't mean you will get one.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

listen to a V8 then listen to a turbo 6, one of them sounds way better than the other and doesnt have turbo lag. New M sounds pathetic. Turbos introduce all kinds of tradeoffs and decrease reliability over NA. If turbos were better, why arent all engines turboed?

F1 also reduced downforce for this year, one reason V6TT are faster in the straights but slower in turns. GP2 cars that were using last years V8s qualified faster than the V6TT at times. New F1 cars sound sterile and boring.

lexicanto

The coming RC F will mean the end of the unique Lexus IS F super-sedan.

CCLSVTF

Maybe your not reading correctly, I have already stated that I have heard the difference and that I do agree that V8's sound better then turbo 6's. Again, it's personal preference. You hate it, good for you, I like it and sound does not bother me when buying a car. I want performance!!! I don't care for sound! I don't need to have a loud car so people can see me driving down the street. I don't need to look cool. I want a fast, solid handling car.

Do you have any data showing decreased liability from the addition of stock boost turbos that are on engines designed and built for them? Car and Driver and many other sources have said today's turbos and engines are amazing due to newly designed combustion chambers, higher compression ratios, better knock sensors, etc....

VW's, MB, semi tractor trucks, airplane engines, etc. that are designed for boost seem to being doing quiet well over the years.... Of course if you add an 18 psi turbo on a stock Honda civic, yes decreased liability will be a by product. These engines these days with turbos are designed and built for these turbos. A reason that all cars are not turbo charged is because of R & D. It costs money to research and design engines for boost. But Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Ford, MB, BMW, Audi, VW, Porsche, Kia, Honda, Chevy, Bugatti, McLaren, Subaru, and who ever else I'm missing uses turbos. Just because Lexus doesn't use turbos does not mean that turbos are a horrible thing.

Yes, this years F1 cars have reduced down force but if you have been following F1 this year, then you would know that the drivers hate the reduced down force. That has nothing to do with the new turbo/electric assist on the car that changed its cornering ability. That is because the front wing is narrower and the rear wing has also been redesigned. All drivers this year have been in awe of the new power system in the cars. They just hate the down force. If the downforce was changed on the older V8 models, they would hate it too.... Most drivers are having issues controlling the car due to the lack do downforce, not with lack of power.

I bet if a new super fast Lexus was introduced and was turbo charged you would all of a sudden like turbos and be pro-turbo.... Everyone needs to get a grip and stop being biased just because we own and drive an ISF. For the price range, the ISF is a good car but not amazing. It is quick but not really fast. There are a lot of cars that the ISF is better then but there are a lot of cars better then the ISF. Go drive a Porsche 911 Turbo S which does 0-60 in 2.9 seconds and tell me that turbos suck.... Come on man..... I have no problems saying another car is better then mine, that another truck is better then my Raptor, that another powerboat is faster then my Sleekcraft, that the new Aprilia RSV4 is better then my BMW S1000rr, that another plane is nicer or faster then my 421...... Who cares unless everyone so insecure that you need to hear that the ISF is the best thing on this earth.....

itsmike177

iTrader: (3)

Damn, didn't expect this thread to go into the realm of reliability vs performance.

I have gone with the ISF 2 times already based on "perceived" reliability and relatively low cost maintenance when tracking the car 5 times a year. Wear and tear OEM parts costs on the M3/C63 are pretty high compared to the ISF. I have\had issues with both ISFs that seemingly no one can resolve, but I live with it. If I went with the M3/C63, I'm sure there will be issues that I will live with as well.

The ISF was never a fast car, even in 2008. I was getting beat by modded 335's, GTR's, slightly modded GTO's, Mustang's, Corvettes, etc in 2009. I had my fair share of "wins" against M3's and C63's, but most of them let go once past 80mph, so not really an accurate indication of which car was faster. Now being 2014, the ISF old in the world of automobiles and the new generation of performance are a big step up.

Reliability is really a toss up. Some owners have no issues with BMW, some do, and vice versa with Lexus, and warranty will take care of any issues that do pop up. In the end, it is what you are looking for, and given that prospective M4/RCF buyers are going for performance, there is no doubt that strictly from a drivers car and performance point of view, the M4 is the one to get.

Back to the topic, M4 or RCF, having driven neither since the RCF isn't even out, heck even the power rating nor MSRP have been released (don't know what takes so long) just looking at the stats, I would have to say the new M3/M4 is the one to get. 3500/3600 lbs in weight vs 3900 for the RCF, 400lb/ft torque from 1900 rpms, a true dual clutch trans, and you know the aftermarket power adders are not far behind.

The M4 is the betters drivers car and pretty sure it will put down faster lap times on road courses (and drag) compared to the RCF. Just waiting for the cars, well, the RCF, to be released and compared against.

MK4Sup_isF

iTrader: (10)

I would probably wouldn't get either one since my ISF is still good enough for me. The RCF isn't having enough power for me to make the jump. The M3/4 is having a bit of issues to work out right now. M3/4 owners are pretty nervous about the ticking noise coming from the rear differential area right now. One guy had the ticking noise and ultimately diagnosed to be a blown diff at just 200 miles (bunch of metal bits in the fluid when they drained it). There are many threads on their forums regarding the same noise and keeping their eyes on their own diffs. Two blown DCT so far at just 400 miles so they will have to work out that DCT problem too. I would just wait a couple of years and see how both cars turned out.

If anything, I'm excited for 2016. This Motortrend article got me very excited. RC FS with 5.0 V8 600+hp is going to be so exciting. This is the motor that they are talking about
They had this motor at 800+ HP and 9K rev for over 2 years for testing. Then detuned it to 650hp at 7k rev for production vehicle's long term testing for the last 2 years. Who knows, there might alreaby be a bunch of mules running around with this motor right now. I just can't wait for what Lexus is bringing out. I'll need a new toy in 4 years or so. My ISF would still continuing to do my daily chore all the way to 300k miles hopefully.
http://wot.motortrend.com/1407_produ...8_variant.html

tea

M4 if you're gonna lease the car. RCF if you're gonna buy

I8ABMR

When you compare Lexus to BMW it usually comes up

short and sweet

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

threads like this dont exactly give you a warm feeling:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605631

tmf2004

iTrader: (15)

nothing new in the BMW world. Still people buy them .

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

nope, if Lexus ever went turbo for the the F cars, I would have to go and find the V8 ones or shop elsewhere for a V8, when I look for a car in a few years. Porsche knows what they are doing reliability wise, BMW doesnt. Porsche is actually a very reliable brand. But Im not in the market for a $150k+ car. If turbos were truly better, why arent all cars turboed? Turbo engine is much more complex than a comparable NA engine , by definition there's more things that can go wrong. And nowhere did I say turbos sucked BTW. They are not my top preference. If there were two comparable engines one being V6TT and one being V8, im choosing the V8. The only reason all these manufacturers are clamoring for turbos is the stupid CAFE standards. RCF may not be as fast as the M, but for 90% of the performance I'd rather have the reliability, the V8, build quality, better looks inside and out. Far better combination to me. 5.0 V8 in the F has been proven to be very reliable. BMW turbo 6? Hardly. But as mentioned earlier, lease BMW, own Lexus.

MisterSkiz

iTrader: (2)

Pay Off and Keep the IS-F.

Buy a quad cab truck for your house and your future kids and future stuff you will buy.

See what the M4 / RC-F pans out to be....buy a certified used one.

ISF001

I am buying--the RC F. And there is NO way I am fettering my self to he already problematic M4--one time with BMW was one time too much for me.

BTW: The TMG looks like a heavy, high-powered ride--more like an exec super sedan with lots of horses. To each his own...it's not what I'm looking for, and nearly 500 horses in the RC F is plenty to get my blood simmering.

s4play

iTrader: (2)

Some of you guys really like to dig up the small issues on BMW ~ every new car has problems. As another have said even the super GT3 had to be recalled and repaired but do you hear Porsche owners running and screaming I should have bought a Lexus?

My point is every new car has problems, just with internet and social media it all gets blown out of proportion. The guy with issue had BMW warranty to take care of him, he's not mad so why are you?

Buy the RC-F if you like a 2-door, keep the IS-F if you like a sedan. Both are nice cars.

For me I love the new M3, hate the M4's looks sorry.

As a smart buyer I have decided to give BMW one year to sort out their issues and buy the 2nd model year car similar to the last few M3's I've owned (all 2nd year cars). Btw, all my M3's were rock solid, no issues, no problems since I take care of my cars. My only gripe with my last 09 M3 was I bought it with the wrong tranny (DCT) and should have gotten a 3-pedal car.


P.S. I have driven the new M3, love the engine sound and exhaust note! So many people talk crap about the BMW but how many of you have actually driven it. As for the RC-F guess we can wait till it comes out.

Justin2JZ

I can see myself picking up a CPO one if its on par with the E92. Even though it sounds like *** turbos spooling will make up for it.