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Lexus IS-F or MB C63 AMG

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Old 10-27-08, 11:57 PM   #31
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Well you can't have it all... realistically all manuf (M3, C63, ISF) all have their own pros...

You need to choose what's most important to you. The reliability of the C63 is pretty good so far from what I read. Realistically, in my opinion, if you buy any of these cars and worry about the price of gas, then you can't really afford the car and should pick an IS350 or something of that nature.
Why do people always say something like this? What do you mean "can't afford it?" What an arrogant thing to say. Maybe I've owned things that get less than 12 mpg and I didn't like it - regardless of the cost. Maybe I've been building engines for the last 28 years and I think anything that inefficient is a fundamentally poor design. I could certainly afford 6 mpg from my bike at the track, but I'd never tolerate that on the street. Can't afford it? I don't think that's my problem at all.
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Old 10-28-08, 01:34 AM   #32
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I'd go with the IS-F,
although the HP in the C63 is very attractive I don't think it's attractive enough to draw me to it, I think for me it's tried and proven reliability that makes sense when I'm buying something, because although failure is not something that's always inevitable, it's rather calming when you have that piece of mind that something is going to give you less headaches in your daily life.

That being said I love my IS250, a bit slow but it takes care of me.

I'd still love to have an IS-F as a weekend car, that would be real nice!
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Old 10-28-08, 08:38 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by lobuxracer View Post
Why do people always say something like this? What do you mean "can't afford it?" What an arrogant thing to say. Maybe I've owned things that get less than 12 mpg and I didn't like it - regardless of the cost. Maybe I've been building engines for the last 28 years and I think anything that inefficient is a fundamentally poor design. I could certainly afford 6 mpg from my bike at the track, but I'd never tolerate that on the street. Can't afford it? I don't think that's my problem at all.
lol, obviously that's a touchy spot.

All I'm saying is more HP = more gas, so why bother worrying about it. It's not like any of them are good on gas. Plain and simple.

Last edited by isbeater; 10-28-08 at 08:42 AM..
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Old 10-28-08, 09:50 AM   #34
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Reliability and ownership cost was part of the reason to go with the F. I have a MB 350, and although very nice, the service cost is unacceptable. Plus at the time of looking, the C63 was so over priced with the high dealer mark-up. No regrets with the F, although I looking forward to installing a blower for added fun.
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Old 10-28-08, 10:08 AM   #35
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...if you buy any of these cars and worry about the price of gas, then you can't really afford the car and should pick an IS350 or something of that nature.
That comment is great way to get yourself painted as a button-pushing poser. Here's a pro tip (Category: Irony): People who can afford expensive cars generally don't like blowing money unnecessarily. As incredible as it sounds some us can afford the gas, insurance, maintenance, etc and still prefer getting 23 mpg vs. 12.

As far as the C63 is concerned, I would be more concerned about the historically brutal depreciation than reliability, which seems to be improving. However, I buy cars to keep so no worries there. If anyone in NC or SC buys a C63 I would enjoy a friendly "drive and compare" day. I think it's a pretty nice car.

IMHO, the real category-buster is the CTS-V. It looks like Caddy was dead serious about removing every bit of FAIL from this effort and it paid off. Again, if there are any new CTS-V owners in NC or SC hit me up...
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Old 10-28-08, 10:10 AM   #36
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lol, obviously that's a touchy spot.

All I'm saying is more HP = more gas, so why bother worrying about it. It's not like any of them are good on gas. Plain and simple.
Not touchy, just the same old crap people post all the time. "Well if you couldn't afford it you shouldn't have bought it." Duh.

There's a simple axiom for all engines. Horsepower comes from your gas tank. But you're not asking for 450 hp all the time, only when you go WOT. At part throttle cruise, a good engine will return reasonable economy. Look at the Corvette. They get stupidly good mileage in cruise mode on the highway. Neither the IS-F nor the C63 AMG come close to what I've heard from real world Corvette owners. Granted a Vette is very aerodynamically slick compared to a sedan and is much lighter so accelerating one takes less energy. But it's impossible to ignore the millions of man-hours expended on the small block Chevrolet engine. It is amazingly efficient and powerful given it's stone-age single underhead cam and two valve per cylinder heads.

So, IMHO, MB didn't do much of a spectacular job getting basic efficiency out of their engine and that alone makes me wonder about the rest of the car. If you can't get 16 mpg around town for a vehicle under 4000 lbs, you're doing something fundamentally wrong.

And yeah, I expect I'll get somewhere in the 18 - 22 mpg range around town with the F when I get it, and that's fine. I get 22 to 25 with my 350. Gas cost isn't a big deal at all.
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Old 10-28-08, 10:38 AM   #37
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Not touchy, just the same old crap people post all the time. "Well if you couldn't afford it you shouldn't have bought it." Duh.

There's a simple axiom for all engines. Horsepower comes from your gas tank. But you're not asking for 450 hp all the time, only when you go WOT. At part throttle cruise, a good engine will return reasonable economy. Look at the Corvette. They get stupidly good mileage in cruise mode on the highway. Neither the IS-F nor the C63 AMG come close to what I've heard from real world Corvette owners. Granted a Vette is very aerodynamically slick compared to a sedan and is much lighter so accelerating one takes less energy. But it's impossible to ignore the millions of man-hours expended on the small block Chevrolet engine. It is amazingly efficient and powerful given it's stone-age single underhead cam and two valve per cylinder heads.

So, IMHO, MB didn't do much of a spectacular job getting basic efficiency out of their engine and that alone makes me wonder about the rest of the car. If you can't get 16 mpg around town for a vehicle under 4000 lbs, you're doing something fundamentally wrong.

And yeah, I expect I'll get somewhere in the 18 - 22 mpg range around town with the F when I get it, and that's fine. I get 22 to 25 with my 350. Gas cost isn't a big deal at all.
Dude calm down the person makes a lot sense. You know you’re not going to get good gas mileage out of most V8 cars especially an AMG/M motors. AMG isn’t doing anything wrong their goal wasn’t to get over 16mpg out of the engine. It’s obvious most AMG drivers don’t care either. If you want a car that gets good gas mpg, get an IS350 or C350.
Their goal was to build a high power engine with a lot torque. Honestly, the last thing I’ll be thinking about if I’m going to get a AMG is the mpg. I will be totally focused on the torque.
Comparing a Corvette to a C63 is silly. On another note have fun in your IS F.

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Old 10-28-08, 12:05 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by lobuxracer View Post
There's a simple axiom for all engines. Horsepower comes from your gas tank. But you're not asking for 450 hp all the time, only when you go WOT. At part throttle cruise, a good engine will return reasonable economy. Look at the Corvette. They get stupidly good mileage in cruise mode on the highway. Neither the IS-F nor the C63 AMG come close to what I've heard from real world Corvette owners. Granted a Vette is very aerodynamically slick compared to a sedan and is much lighter so accelerating one takes less energy. But it's impossible to ignore the millions of man-hours expended on the small block Chevrolet engine. It is amazingly efficient and powerful given it's stone-age single underhead cam and two valve per cylinder heads.
Yep those underhead cams are almost as stone-age as those ancient piston slinging gasoline burning metal blocks everyone has under their hoods. I suppose that if it works, go with it. And right now GM dominates the market all the imports and germans are just now trying to get into with "stone-age" technology. That market being larger engines that make big power and sip fuel while not necessarily needing forced induction.

I'd take a GM small block in my ISF any day. 505hp(with the LS7 engine, or you can go the 650hp route with the supercharged LS9 which is actually a smaller engine) and 20+ mpg with great reliability.
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Old 10-29-08, 01:50 AM   #39
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I loved my 2002 Corvette. It was a great, reliable and fun car. The LS1 engine ran like a top and I can personally attest to the gas mileage. With a 6spd manual, I easily got over 30mpg on the highway and getting over 20 in mixed city/highway driving wasn't difficult. I could also drive to the point of getting 12 mpg when I wanted to.

Comparing the 2UR-GSE and the GM LSx series V8:

The 2UR-GSE engine squeezes more power out of less displacement.

But on the other hand, the LSx engine squeezes more power out of a *smaller* and *lighter* overall engine.

The DOHC ISF V8 with all the techy goodness is wonderful. But get out your tape measure and you'll find the LSx is no where near as tall or wide, or heavy. No way to fit the DOHC under the impossibly low-slung Corvette hood.

The OHV V8 design is time tested, robust and reliable. And as we can see, GM's engineers have no problem getting power and efficiency out of it either. It's also less expensive to manufacture, hence you can get into a reasonably optioned Corvette for a lot less than an ISF. (GM vehicles are generally sold at deep discount to MSRP)

I looked real hard for the C63. I was not at all impressed with the C-class and I wasn't up to waiting and paying over list and all that crap the Mercedes dealer was pushing. Besides, I really liked the Lexus quality and the nav/entertainment/climate just appealed to me a lot more.

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Old 10-29-08, 11:31 AM   #40
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The hood bulge on the IS-F is pretty ugly. Benz doesn't have that sort of styling compromise...not that it is a great looker either.
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Old 10-29-08, 10:18 PM   #41
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Have right at 14k miles on my F. Drive it 38 miles each way around Beltway 8here in Houston every work day. Hit close to 100 mph nearly every day at one time or another, but I have averaged 21.3 mpg since new. Another F owner from here in Houston drove his to Denver and back and averaged right at 30 mpg for the whole trip. During that trip he said that he an a Porche mad a run up to near 160 mph, so he wasn't feather footing it the whole way.
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Old 10-29-08, 10:33 PM   #42
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Being a service advisor myself at Mercedes Benz, I would honestly go w/ the IS-F as well. The C63 was designed around showing off to the other German (BMW) that MBZ had the bigger you-know-what. MB knows that BMW has superior handling so they had to beat them somewhere. The exhaust note on the C63 is just incredible, I mean honestly you have to hear it to know what I'm talking about, there's just no way sound clips do it justice. I've driven both the C63 and the IS-F and honestly the C63 was more fun to drive but was it practical? Not at all. Yes of course there is the gas mileage but there is also tire wear which is ridiculous, the navigation is harder than hell to use even w/ the new COMAND **** and maintenance on the vehicle is quite expensive.

I feel so pampered when I get into my IS and I have a touch-screen that a monkey could figure out. The prices are both around the same as well so I mean if you're not worried about costs of maintaining the vehicle down the line and you have a huuuuge lead foot that loves to unleash all 451hp of the 6.2liter then sure get the C63. But realistically nobody uses that kind of horsepower and my clients that own AMG cars, 90% of them don't drive them the way AMG's should be driven. But that's why I'm here..so I can make up for that
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Old 10-30-08, 08:02 AM   #43
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Being a service advisor myself at Mercedes Benz, I would honestly go w/ the IS-F as well. The C63 was designed around showing off to the other German (BMW) that MBZ had the bigger you-know-what. MB knows that BMW has superior handling so they had to beat them somewhere. The exhaust note on the C63 is just incredible, I mean honestly you have to hear it to know what I'm talking about, there's just no way sound clips do it justice. I've driven both the C63 and the IS-F and honestly the C63 was more fun to drive but was it practical? Not at all. Yes of course there is the gas mileage but there is also tire wear which is ridiculous, the navigation is harder than hell to use even w/ the new COMAND **** and maintenance on the vehicle is quite expensive.

I feel so pampered when I get into my IS and I have a touch-screen that a monkey could figure out. The prices are both around the same as well so I mean if you're not worried about costs of maintaining the vehicle down the line and you have a huuuuge lead foot that loves to unleash all 451hp of the 6.2liter then sure get the C63. But realistically nobody uses that kind of horsepower and my clients that own AMG cars, 90% of them don't drive them the way AMG's should be driven. But that's why I'm here..so I can make up for that
Well said and thanks for the insight. My personal opinion is that we're in another short-lived "golden age" for performance automobiles, and isn't it great that we have such excellent choices with each having a distinctive character? Although I pulled out my wallet for the F, I refuse to hate on the M3, C63, or the CTS-V (which is honestly an M5 competitor).

As far as unleashing the horsepower, I joke with my friends that I'm "that guy" doing 60 in a 65 with surrounding drivers cussing and wondering why the hell I bought a fast car. Kidding, but seriously it's fairly difficult finding enough opportunities to check the tune. I'm thinking about joining our local motorsports club and getting my *** on the track.
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Old 10-30-08, 08:19 AM   #44
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Guys - I'm very close to making a decision and I'm leaning toward the IS-F ... the C63 AMG is the other finalist. I'm a little worried about how comfortable the F is as a daily driver. I was concerned about the tightness of the seats but I think I will overcome that. How about the ride? It is sooo hard. Does that get old? Anyone else get close to buying a C63 but chose the F instead?
Had all the same concerns when I bought. I came out of an M3, and was looking hard at the new M3 Sedan because I was worried about the ride and the tightness of the seats (I'm 6'5" and 220 or so). I've been thrilled with this car as a daily driver. It is EXTREMELY civilized when you are loping around. I don't know if having my fat a@@ in the seats every day has widened them out a bit, or if I'm just getting used to them, but it has been a non-issue, and they now feel very supportive. The ride was also alarming to me when I first drove the car, and I was terrified that my wife would freak when she felt how firm it is. Had it for about a month now, and not a peep from her. When I'm out flying a trip, I come home to her sheepishly admitting that she's been driving it.... a good sign that it's comfortable for her too. Haven't driven the Merc, so can't help you there, but I have been quite pleasantly surprised at how livable the F has been. MUCH more comfortable than my M3 according to everyone that has been in it. I've had 4 full sized adults in it and had no complaints at all.

Good luck with your choice. It's nice to have such exceptional choices at this price point.
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Old 10-30-08, 08:51 AM   #45
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Had all the same concerns when I bought. I came out of an M3, and was looking hard at the new M3 Sedan because I was worried about the ride and the tightness of the seats (I'm 6'5" and 220 or so). I've been thrilled with this car as a daily driver. It is EXTREMELY civilized when you are loping around. I don't know if having my fat a@@ in the seats every day has widened them out a bit, or if I'm just getting used to them, but it has been a non-issue, and they now feel very supportive. The ride was also alarming to me when I first drove the car, and I was terrified that my wife would freak when she felt how firm it is. Had it for about a month now, and not a peep from her. When I'm out flying a trip, I come home to her sheepishly admitting that she's been driving it.... a good sign that it's comfortable for her too. Haven't driven the Merc, so can't help you there, but I have been quite pleasantly surprised at how livable the F has been. MUCH more comfortable than my M3 according to everyone that has been in it. I've had 4 full sized adults in it and had no complaints at all.

Good luck with your choice. It's nice to have such exceptional choices at this price point.

Thanks a lot for the comments ... I appreciate everyone's comments but ones from someone like you in a similar circumstance put me more at ease. I will likely close a deal today. Thanks again.
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