Lexus IS-F Discontinued
03-08-13, 01:26 PM
#16
The production of the next generation ISF was confirmed in Road & Track ( or Motortrend) interview with Toyota's CEO. That was more than a year ago. Times are certainly changing ... you just never know with the gas prices and market shifting towards the tighter MPG requirements by US government.
Lets not forget all those USB renderings of the last generation GS, forcasting the GSF with V10 engine etc.
If never happened for the last gen GS, with the F-Sport line being so popular, spreading across all the model lines, Lexus might just be OK without the F. We all read the reports about the ISF being a disappointment as far as sales for Lexus, way below the initial estimates. The only hope here I see is.... the many improvements to the car over last few model years. You might thing, why would they keep improving it if they would not bring it back.
For current owners, no next gen of ISF, possibly great news for them. For the future of our "Need for Speed" maybe the end of an era.
Lets not forget all those USB renderings of the last generation GS, forcasting the GSF with V10 engine etc.
If never happened for the last gen GS, with the F-Sport line being so popular, spreading across all the model lines, Lexus might just be OK without the F. We all read the reports about the ISF being a disappointment as far as sales for Lexus, way below the initial estimates. The only hope here I see is.... the many improvements to the car over last few model years. You might thing, why would they keep improving it if they would not bring it back.
For current owners, no next gen of ISF, possibly great news for them. For the future of our "Need for Speed" maybe the end of an era.
03-08-13, 01:43 PM
#17
I can see how the ISF will be discontinued.
Against its competitors, the upcoming AMG C63, BMW M3, and maybe Audi RS4 going forced induction, outputting 450hp+ along with equal amounts of torque, the ISF cannot stay with the NA 5L V8. Performance wise, if the "new 2014+ ISF" stays with the same 5L V8, it will be way behind in power. The next-gen "ISF" will have to be FI to say competitive.
I do not have any insider info, just what I have seen with the history of Toyota, and they are slow to come out with "high performance" products. And when they do, it's usually years later than the other automakers. The LFA was 5 years too late, as the Carrera GT already had a carbon fiber chassis + high RPM V10 back in mid 2000's.
As of what everyone knows and are speculating, Toyota does not have any high performance turbo engines in development. Such as the 4.0L V8TT in Audi S/RS models outputting 420-560hp stock. Or the upcoming M3 with a rumored 3.0L I6TT @ 450hp+.
It looks like only the "F-Sport" model lines (suspension upgrades only) will be long lived. I do not foresee any true "F" models anytime soon, but that's just my guess.
Against its competitors, the upcoming AMG C63, BMW M3, and maybe Audi RS4 going forced induction, outputting 450hp+ along with equal amounts of torque, the ISF cannot stay with the NA 5L V8. Performance wise, if the "new 2014+ ISF" stays with the same 5L V8, it will be way behind in power. The next-gen "ISF" will have to be FI to say competitive.
I do not have any insider info, just what I have seen with the history of Toyota, and they are slow to come out with "high performance" products. And when they do, it's usually years later than the other automakers. The LFA was 5 years too late, as the Carrera GT already had a carbon fiber chassis + high RPM V10 back in mid 2000's.
As of what everyone knows and are speculating, Toyota does not have any high performance turbo engines in development. Such as the 4.0L V8TT in Audi S/RS models outputting 420-560hp stock. Or the upcoming M3 with a rumored 3.0L I6TT @ 450hp+.
It looks like only the "F-Sport" model lines (suspension upgrades only) will be long lived. I do not foresee any true "F" models anytime soon, but that's just my guess.
03-08-13, 01:55 PM
#18
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I can not c why they will just give the f more power to 450 same engine. It is a 600 bhp engine down tuned. And it will sell better the second time around. And you can't have a f sport without a F
03-08-13, 02:04 PM
#19
^ 600bhp engine detuned?? I don't think so, its more like a 380hp engine tuned to make 416. Granted I'm sure they could get a few more HP from it, but from what I understand its pretty much at its limit till you start sacrificing reliability. That said, if they developed another V8 to 450hp and put it in the F with a manual gearbox I think Lexus could steal a ton of customers from BMW because a lot of M fans aren't thrilled with the upcoming TT.
Long live the NAV8!
Long live the NAV8!
03-08-13, 02:32 PM
#20
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We can almost get 500 with bolt on. 120 bhp per L is what has been the standard for years. I think with the correct inlet manifold and headers with a factory map 450 won't be a problem. But they could drop the 2jzgte in and Give it a upgrade
straight from the factory
03-08-13, 02:38 PM
#22
There are rumors swirling ALL the time about the discontinuation of the ISF. It's hard to say what is fact and what is fiction. I do believe that there will be a period where they don't make any ISFs and then they bring it back as a new body style after a year or two of a break. That I can see. The biggest question mark is the sales figures. A lot of performance cars made by various car makers are not profit centers by any stretch. They make money on the Prius and Camry, not on the ISF and LFA. But if sales figures are WAY WAY down, then yeah, they might stop making the car.
Was that accurate that they've sold 500 in 2013... if so, that's not too bad, it's still early. If you meant 500 in all of 2012 though, yeah, that's got to be lower than expectations by quite a bit.
Was that accurate that they've sold 500 in 2013... if so, that's not too bad, it's still early. If you meant 500 in all of 2012 though, yeah, that's got to be lower than expectations by quite a bit.
03-08-13, 04:20 PM
#24
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FYI for ALL....
But I can tell you the IS-F just recently surpassed 11,011 units sold, since debuting in 2008...
How many Ferrari’s have been sold since then... ??
~ Joe Z
03-08-13, 05:13 PM
#26
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Not surprising. When I went to the LA auto show, the IS-F was missing, when asked about the IS-F floor person said, " Ah yeah there still making it", I asked what about in 2013?? No reply.
It's a business, if not enough units are sold, they'll drop the line. Yeah car will be rare, so will the parts to repair it, in the future. It was Lexus position to bring the "F" brand to the market, and bring in younger buyers to infuse their brand, hence the LF-A and IS-F. They have succeeded and now they will slap the "F" branding all over their vehicles to draw in younger buyers, because there "older" customers are not buying.
In regards to a Ferrari or lambo. just recently unveiled in Geneva auto show, when Ferrari is only building 399 examples @ 1.3 mill each( and all have been spoken for) and the New Lambo, with only 4 built @ 4mill each.
Yeah each will be rare and will still have market value, because of name recognition, history, and hand built which garner resale value. Unlike the IS-F, just look at the used market for an 08-2010, used prices are in the 48-50K range depending on year.
Lambo and Ferrai will ALWAYS have a niche market.
It's a business, if not enough units are sold, they'll drop the line. Yeah car will be rare, so will the parts to repair it, in the future. It was Lexus position to bring the "F" brand to the market, and bring in younger buyers to infuse their brand, hence the LF-A and IS-F. They have succeeded and now they will slap the "F" branding all over their vehicles to draw in younger buyers, because there "older" customers are not buying.
In regards to a Ferrari or lambo. just recently unveiled in Geneva auto show, when Ferrari is only building 399 examples @ 1.3 mill each( and all have been spoken for) and the New Lambo, with only 4 built @ 4mill each.
Yeah each will be rare and will still have market value, because of name recognition, history, and hand built which garner resale value. Unlike the IS-F, just look at the used market for an 08-2010, used prices are in the 48-50K range depending on year.
Lambo and Ferrai will ALWAYS have a niche market.
03-08-13, 06:01 PM
#27
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IS-F is the first performance oriented car from Lexus. Even if it's discontinued, no one knows if the value will hold like Supra or NSX. Only time will tell. I hope Lexus continues to make them. One thing for sure is that IS-Fs are rare but not a collector's item. I think it's pointless to speculate at this time and just enjoy the car.
Terrance
03-08-13, 06:08 PM
#28
Lexus Champion
03-08-13, 06:11 PM
#29
The 5.0 could be 600 hp... but not with just a tune. They need to have the thing go up to 8000 rpm and have the valvetrain for that kind of RPM not to mention rods, etc. etc. etc. BUT, you'd end up losing 5 mpg and lose low end torque. We don't need another E60 M5 LOL.
I like the IS-F engine just the way it is. But to compete with the future sport sedans, it would have to go a turbo route. AFAIK, I don't know of any turbo in the works for Lexus/Toyota.
If it really is the end of the F, I'm going to keep mine for a LONG LONG LONG time. LOL I think it's really the first and only Japanese muscle car. Did Japan ever make a 5.0 V8 for a sports car/sedan ever?
I like the IS-F engine just the way it is. But to compete with the future sport sedans, it would have to go a turbo route. AFAIK, I don't know of any turbo in the works for Lexus/Toyota.
If it really is the end of the F, I'm going to keep mine for a LONG LONG LONG time. LOL I think it's really the first and only Japanese muscle car. Did Japan ever make a 5.0 V8 for a sports car/sedan ever?
03-08-13, 06:13 PM
#30
Lexus Champion
But then you got it again...side note...the dealer didn't screw you or anything did you? No loss of money right?