Knocking Issue-revisited
04-29-12, 01:06 PM
#1
Rookie
Thread Starter
Knocking Issue-revisited
Hey guys,
I've been posting on an old thread, and decided to start my own after some convincing
i've been dealing with the knocking issue for the past month or so on my 08 F(44k miles). I originally took it to a local dealer here but the stated that Lexus wanted them to compare it to another IS-F, but since they never see them,.. they gave it back. Soo, I ended up sending a video to all the Lexus dealerships within a few hours distance and finally got Superior Lexus North in Kansas City to take a look at it. They determined it was most likely from carbon build-up in the engine and that's a $400 "service" item. After talking the gentleman for a while I argued that since it was knocking, it should be covered by warranty and he finally agreed. He called me back and stated that they don't hear the sound anymore, so that must have been the fix. I told in order to hear the knocking noise you have to get the engine really warmed up, like 20min of freeway or 30min of city, and he said they did. So, I drove back to Kansas City knowing that it most likely wasn't fixed, but at least the motor received a spit shine
Long story long, I have the car back and it's still making the knocking noise after it gets good and hot. My only hope is now that they have started a case with Lexus I can continue to return it to the dealership saying it's not fixed, hoping they'll slowly start to realize that they have to dive in to the motor itself. I've handed every service manager a copy of the Valve-Guide repair printout that others have had, and most take it but conclude that it's not the same issue.
I did however get a chance to swing by ERDOC's workplace and check out his USB F with Joe-z Intake and Exhaust with headers. He was super busy (saving lives), but let me drive it around the lot to get a good listen, and it sounds incredible! Anyways us mid-western's are far and few between so it was good to chat with him for a few.
Mine and ERDOC's
Pics of the carbon cleaning they did.
BEFORE
AFTER
I've been posting on an old thread, and decided to start my own after some convincing
i've been dealing with the knocking issue for the past month or so on my 08 F(44k miles). I originally took it to a local dealer here but the stated that Lexus wanted them to compare it to another IS-F, but since they never see them,.. they gave it back. Soo, I ended up sending a video to all the Lexus dealerships within a few hours distance and finally got Superior Lexus North in Kansas City to take a look at it. They determined it was most likely from carbon build-up in the engine and that's a $400 "service" item. After talking the gentleman for a while I argued that since it was knocking, it should be covered by warranty and he finally agreed. He called me back and stated that they don't hear the sound anymore, so that must have been the fix. I told in order to hear the knocking noise you have to get the engine really warmed up, like 20min of freeway or 30min of city, and he said they did. So, I drove back to Kansas City knowing that it most likely wasn't fixed, but at least the motor received a spit shine
Long story long, I have the car back and it's still making the knocking noise after it gets good and hot. My only hope is now that they have started a case with Lexus I can continue to return it to the dealership saying it's not fixed, hoping they'll slowly start to realize that they have to dive in to the motor itself. I've handed every service manager a copy of the Valve-Guide repair printout that others have had, and most take it but conclude that it's not the same issue.
I did however get a chance to swing by ERDOC's workplace and check out his USB F with Joe-z Intake and Exhaust with headers. He was super busy (saving lives), but let me drive it around the lot to get a good listen, and it sounds incredible! Anyways us mid-western's are far and few between so it was good to chat with him for a few.
Mine and ERDOC's
Pics of the carbon cleaning they did.
BEFORE
AFTER
04-29-12, 01:44 PM
#2
Great heads up! This carbon issue is interesting....and not isolated to our engine. I know Audi and their FSI engines have had issues with build up as well. If I remember correctly, it was more pernicious with the Audi.
04-29-12, 01:44 PM
#3
Hey guys,
I've been posting on an old thread, and decided to start my own after some convincing
i've been dealing with the knocking issue for the past month or so on my 08 F(44k miles). I originally took it to a local dealer here but the stated that Lexus wanted them to compare it to another IS-F, but since they never see them,.. they gave it back. Soo, I ended up sending a video to all the Lexus dealerships within a few hours distance and finally got Superior Lexus North in Kansas City to take a look at it. They determined it was most likely from carbon build-up in the engine and that's a $400 "service" item. After talking the gentleman for a while I argued that since it was knocking, it should be covered by warranty and he finally agreed. He called me back and stated that they don't hear the sound anymore, so that must have been the fix. I told in order to hear the knocking noise you have to get the engine really warmed up, like 20min of freeway or 30min of city, and he said they did. So, I drove back to Kansas City knowing that it most likely wasn't fixed, but at least the motor received a spit shine
Long story long, I have the car back and it's still making the knocking noise after it gets good and hot. My only hope is now that they have started a case with Lexus I can continue to return it to the dealership saying it's not fixed, hoping they'll slowly start to realize that they have to dive in to the motor itself. I've handed every service manager a copy of the Valve-Guide repair printout that others have had, and most take it but conclude that it's not the same issue.
I did however get a chance to swing by ERDOC's workplace and check out his USB F with Joe-z Intake and Exhaust with headers. He was super busy (saving lives), but let me drive it around the lot to get a good listen, and it sounds incredible! Anyways us mid-western's are far and few between so it was good to chat with him for a few.
Mine and ERDOC's
Pics of the carbon cleaning they did.
BEFORE
AFTER
I've been posting on an old thread, and decided to start my own after some convincing
i've been dealing with the knocking issue for the past month or so on my 08 F(44k miles). I originally took it to a local dealer here but the stated that Lexus wanted them to compare it to another IS-F, but since they never see them,.. they gave it back. Soo, I ended up sending a video to all the Lexus dealerships within a few hours distance and finally got Superior Lexus North in Kansas City to take a look at it. They determined it was most likely from carbon build-up in the engine and that's a $400 "service" item. After talking the gentleman for a while I argued that since it was knocking, it should be covered by warranty and he finally agreed. He called me back and stated that they don't hear the sound anymore, so that must have been the fix. I told in order to hear the knocking noise you have to get the engine really warmed up, like 20min of freeway or 30min of city, and he said they did. So, I drove back to Kansas City knowing that it most likely wasn't fixed, but at least the motor received a spit shine
Long story long, I have the car back and it's still making the knocking noise after it gets good and hot. My only hope is now that they have started a case with Lexus I can continue to return it to the dealership saying it's not fixed, hoping they'll slowly start to realize that they have to dive in to the motor itself. I've handed every service manager a copy of the Valve-Guide repair printout that others have had, and most take it but conclude that it's not the same issue.
I did however get a chance to swing by ERDOC's workplace and check out his USB F with Joe-z Intake and Exhaust with headers. He was super busy (saving lives), but let me drive it around the lot to get a good listen, and it sounds incredible! Anyways us mid-western's are far and few between so it was good to chat with him for a few.
Mine and ERDOC's
Pics of the carbon cleaning they did.
BEFORE
AFTER
04-29-12, 01:50 PM
#4
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I don't think we will have the same issues as Audi has because the F uses both direct and port injection. With the added port injection you still get fuel flowing past the valves so the detergent in the gas can help keep buildup in check.
04-29-12, 03:20 PM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
The dealer did the cleaning because it is a common problem with the 250 and 350 engines that ONLY have direct injection. The F has both direct and port but it does a better job of cleaning the valves. It really just shows, again, dealers ignorance about the F engine. At least now the backsides of your valves are clean! Keep after them (Lexus) to get it resolved. Its good that it is in the system as now it will hopefully be covered under warranty since I'm guessing yours is about to be up.
When my motor was rebuilt under warranty for the knock the most likely culprit was deformed valve springs, not surprising as Toyota recalled 270,000 engines (mostly V8s) for faulty valve springs http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...-to-stall.html. With my car they also replaced all the crank bearing and piston rings, with a light hone of the cylinders.
My problem seems to be solved as the car is now sewing machine smooth and making more power. However it is hard to pinpoint exactly what was wrong since so much was done. Others that just had their heads/valve train replaced/repaired have also reported good results and would have received new valve springs.
The reason the dealer likely dismissed the valve guides as the problem is because the motor that exhibited that problem had over 80K miles on the clock. It's likely when he got his new heads with new springs, that it cured it.
Good luck to you. Don't expect much more from Lexus than the free repair. They kept my car for 4 months and didn't even so much as offer me a free oil change for my inconvenience. However they have about $15K retail into my repair parts/labor/loaner rental.
When my motor was rebuilt under warranty for the knock the most likely culprit was deformed valve springs, not surprising as Toyota recalled 270,000 engines (mostly V8s) for faulty valve springs http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...-to-stall.html. With my car they also replaced all the crank bearing and piston rings, with a light hone of the cylinders.
My problem seems to be solved as the car is now sewing machine smooth and making more power. However it is hard to pinpoint exactly what was wrong since so much was done. Others that just had their heads/valve train replaced/repaired have also reported good results and would have received new valve springs.
The reason the dealer likely dismissed the valve guides as the problem is because the motor that exhibited that problem had over 80K miles on the clock. It's likely when he got his new heads with new springs, that it cured it.
Good luck to you. Don't expect much more from Lexus than the free repair. They kept my car for 4 months and didn't even so much as offer me a free oil change for my inconvenience. However they have about $15K retail into my repair parts/labor/loaner rental.
Last edited by UCrazyKid; 04-29-12 at 03:26 PM.
04-30-12, 07:58 AM
#6
Rookie
Thread Starter
The dealer did the cleaning because it is a common problem with the 250 and 350 engines that ONLY have direct injection. The F has both direct and port but it does a better job of cleaning the valves. It really just shows, again, dealers ignorance about the F engine. At least now the backsides of your valves are clean! Keep after them (Lexus) to get it resolved. Its good that it is in the system as now it will hopefully be covered under warranty since I'm guessing yours is about to be up.
When my motor was rebuilt under warranty for the knock the most likely culprit was deformed valve springs, not surprising as Toyota recalled 270,000 engines (mostly V8s) for faulty valve springs http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...-to-stall.html. With my car they also replaced all the crank bearing and piston rings, with a light hone of the cylinders.
My problem seems to be solved as the car is now sewing machine smooth and making more power. However it is hard to pinpoint exactly what was wrong since so much was done. Others that just had their heads/valve train replaced/repaired have also reported good results and would have received new valve springs.
The reason the dealer likely dismissed the valve guides as the problem is because the motor that exhibited that problem had over 80K miles on the clock. It's likely when he got his new heads with new springs, that it cured it.
Good luck to you. Don't expect much more from Lexus than the free repair. They kept my car for 4 months and didn't even so much as offer me a free oil change for my inconvenience. However they have about $15K retail into my repair parts/labor/loaner rental.
When my motor was rebuilt under warranty for the knock the most likely culprit was deformed valve springs, not surprising as Toyota recalled 270,000 engines (mostly V8s) for faulty valve springs http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...-to-stall.html. With my car they also replaced all the crank bearing and piston rings, with a light hone of the cylinders.
My problem seems to be solved as the car is now sewing machine smooth and making more power. However it is hard to pinpoint exactly what was wrong since so much was done. Others that just had their heads/valve train replaced/repaired have also reported good results and would have received new valve springs.
The reason the dealer likely dismissed the valve guides as the problem is because the motor that exhibited that problem had over 80K miles on the clock. It's likely when he got his new heads with new springs, that it cured it.
Good luck to you. Don't expect much more from Lexus than the free repair. They kept my car for 4 months and didn't even so much as offer me a free oil change for my inconvenience. However they have about $15K retail into my repair parts/labor/loaner rental.
I remembered reading about you not having yours for months on end, so I was preparing for that. I'd rather have it gone for months and get it fixed correctly. As far as Lexus goes they put 100 miles on it and left me on empty when I got on the freeway, so I'm pretty sure they were joyriding all week long.
04-30-12, 09:09 AM
#7
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I hope you're able to get this straightened out ASAP!
On another note, I was glad you stopped by, but feel bad that I wasn't able to chat more, etc....
If you're ever in the area again you should let me know and if I'm off we can crack a couple of beers and have more "car talk"!
or.... as I mentioned the other day you DEFINITELY need to come to Topeka to the Heartland Park track on the "touring days" and have some good fun with your F! I'll be at every one this year except in October...
On another note, I was glad you stopped by, but feel bad that I wasn't able to chat more, etc....
If you're ever in the area again you should let me know and if I'm off we can crack a couple of beers and have more "car talk"!
or.... as I mentioned the other day you DEFINITELY need to come to Topeka to the Heartland Park track on the "touring days" and have some good fun with your F!
I'll be at every one this year except in October...
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04-30-12, 09:14 AM
#8
Rookie
Thread Starter
I hope you're able to get this straightened out ASAP!
On another note, I was glad you stopped by, but feel bad that I wasn't able to chat more, etc....
If you're ever in the area again you should let me know and if I'm off we can crack a couple of beers and have more "car talk"!
or.... as I mentioned the other day you DEFINITELY need to come to Topeka to the Heartland Park track on the "touring days" and have some good fun with your F! I'll be at every one this year except in October...
On another note, I was glad you stopped by, but feel bad that I wasn't able to chat more, etc....
If you're ever in the area again you should let me know and if I'm off we can crack a couple of beers and have more "car talk"!
or.... as I mentioned the other day you DEFINITELY need to come to Topeka to the Heartland Park track on the "touring days" and have some good fun with your F!
I'll be at every one this year except in October...
04-30-12, 09:17 AM
#9
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Thanks for letting me stop by! A good friend of mine just moved from Germany to Whiteman AFB up there so I'm thinking our trips will be more frequent now! I was thinking of renting a plane and flying up there a few times too. When's the first track day this year? I'm not sure my car will be fixed by then!
http://www.hpt.com/index.php?option=...nts&Itemid=282
See you there!
04-30-12, 06:13 PM
#10
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Yeah, the carbon in those ports is nothing in the before picture. I really doubt you'd notice any difference between the before and after from the driver's seat. Sounds like they were just trying something and hoping it makes things better.
Did they check the valve clearances? If you've got a valve train noise, it should be the first thing you check. Tell your friend who builds engines this one has solid lifters. He'll get it right away...
Did they check the valve clearances? If you've got a valve train noise, it should be the first thing you check. Tell your friend who builds engines this one has solid lifters. He'll get it right away...
05-01-12, 06:01 AM
#11
Rookie
Thread Starter
Yeah, the carbon in those ports is nothing in the before picture. I really doubt you'd notice any difference between the before and after from the driver's seat. Sounds like they were just trying something and hoping it makes things better.
Did they check the valve clearances? If you've got a valve train noise, it should be the first thing you check. Tell your friend who builds engines this one has solid lifters. He'll get it right away...
Did they check the valve clearances? If you've got a valve train noise, it should be the first thing you check. Tell your friend who builds engines this one has solid lifters. He'll get it right away...
05-03-12, 11:01 AM
#13
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Yeah, the carbon in those ports is nothing in the before picture. I really doubt you'd notice any difference between the before and after from the driver's seat. Sounds like they were just trying something and hoping it makes things better.
Did they check the valve clearances? If you've got a valve train noise, it should be the first thing you check. Tell your friend who builds engines this one has solid lifters. He'll get it right away...
Did they check the valve clearances? If you've got a valve train noise, it should be the first thing you check. Tell your friend who builds engines this one has solid lifters. He'll get it right away...
According to my Master Tech (friend), they are usually still within spec..
But found that tighterning up a notch made the sound go away..
He's hoping to see "some revised specs in the future"..
He stated to me that there is ZERO difference in performance.. The possiblity of engine damage is unlikely..
However, engine damage will be possible from tighter or overtightened valves...
"Better to hear a valve, then smell one......"
To me the audible valve tick is not something to lose sleeper over..
Especially knowing the motor is covered under the 5yr / 70k power train warranty.. OR more if you bought extended (like i did)
Just my .02 cents...
~ Joe Z
07-19-12, 05:05 PM
#15
wait, is the knocking sound the same as like a ticking noise coming from the engine? Is it possible for my car to have carbon build up with 12k miles. Also when I accelerate while cruising my car makes a THUNK sound, read on the forum that it may be the axle hub? Or is it the same thing as the knocking sound, not too sure. LOL.
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Orange County, CA
Email: info@merakiautoworks.com
Text/Call: 213 394 2886
Website: www.MerakiAutoworks.com