MotoIQ IS-F Project
01-21-11, 07:51 AM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
MotoIQ IS-F Project
IMO, MotoIQ is one of the best sites on the web for interesting projects and technical articles. Just saw today they are starting an IS-F project. Sorry if this is a re-post. The are almost **** in the details and photos of their builds. 5 whole pages for just an intake! Check it out here: http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...ir-intake.aspx
Last edited by RRocket; 01-21-11 at 08:10 AM.
01-21-11, 08:32 AM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
I'm still very skeptical....these guys seem late to the party.
Why would they do a 3rd gear run on an 8 speed transmission? Thats nowhere near 1:1. Isnt it like gear 5 or 6?
Would you trust a dyno that I had done in 1st gear? No because the gear ratio multiplies that power by some bit, meaning that the dyno reading would be showing HIGHER numbers based on that gear multiplier.
Every intake manufacturer likes to do a dyno session under the 1:1 ratio. It usually makes them look better. REAL whp is probably in the 10-12 range, if I had to guess.
Not to mention they act like no one has even considered a different exhaust before. I dunno, they seem to be amatuers trying to be pros but still dont have it just right.
Why would they do a 3rd gear run on an 8 speed transmission? Thats nowhere near 1:1. Isnt it like gear 5 or 6?
Would you trust a dyno that I had done in 1st gear? No because the gear ratio multiplies that power by some bit, meaning that the dyno reading would be showing HIGHER numbers based on that gear multiplier.
Every intake manufacturer likes to do a dyno session under the 1:1 ratio. It usually makes them look better. REAL whp is probably in the 10-12 range, if I had to guess.
Not to mention they act like no one has even considered a different exhaust before. I dunno, they seem to be amatuers trying to be pros but still dont have it just right.
01-21-11, 09:19 AM
#3
I'm still very skeptical....these guys seem late to the party.
Why would they do a 3rd gear run on an 8 speed transmission? Thats nowhere near 1:1. Isnt it like gear 5 or 6?
Would you trust a dyno that I had done in 1st gear? No because the gear ratio multiplies that power by some bit, meaning that the dyno reading would be showing HIGHER numbers based on that gear multiplier.
Every intake manufacturer likes to do a dyno session under the 1:1 ratio. It usually makes them look better. REAL whp is probably in the 10-12 range, if I had to guess.
Not to mention they act like no one has even considered a different exhaust before. I dunno, they seem to be amatuers trying to be pros but still dont have it just right.
Why would they do a 3rd gear run on an 8 speed transmission? Thats nowhere near 1:1. Isnt it like gear 5 or 6?
Would you trust a dyno that I had done in 1st gear? No because the gear ratio multiplies that power by some bit, meaning that the dyno reading would be showing HIGHER numbers based on that gear multiplier.
Every intake manufacturer likes to do a dyno session under the 1:1 ratio. It usually makes them look better. REAL whp is probably in the 10-12 range, if I had to guess.
Not to mention they act like no one has even considered a different exhaust before. I dunno, they seem to be amatuers trying to be pros but still dont have it just right.
01-21-11, 11:05 AM
#4
I'm still very skeptical....these guys seem late to the party.
Why would they do a 3rd gear run on an 8 speed transmission? Thats nowhere near 1:1. Isnt it like gear 5 or 6?
Would you trust a dyno that I had done in 1st gear? No because the gear ratio multiplies that power by some bit, meaning that the dyno reading would be showing HIGHER numbers based on that gear multiplier.
Every intake manufacturer likes to do a dyno session under the 1:1 ratio. It usually makes them look better. REAL whp is probably in the 10-12 range, if I had to guess.
Not to mention they act like no one has even considered a different exhaust before. I dunno, they seem to be amatuers trying to be pros but still dont have it just right.
Why would they do a 3rd gear run on an 8 speed transmission? Thats nowhere near 1:1. Isnt it like gear 5 or 6?
Would you trust a dyno that I had done in 1st gear? No because the gear ratio multiplies that power by some bit, meaning that the dyno reading would be showing HIGHER numbers based on that gear multiplier.
Every intake manufacturer likes to do a dyno session under the 1:1 ratio. It usually makes them look better. REAL whp is probably in the 10-12 range, if I had to guess.
Not to mention they act like no one has even considered a different exhaust before. I dunno, they seem to be amatuers trying to be pros but still dont have it just right.
Ummm..........no! The car belongs to Mike Kojima who amongst other things owns Moto IQ, was the technical editor for Sport Compact Car, currently serves as the crew chief and suspension guru for Dai Yoshihara's Formula D drift car, former engineer for Nissan NA/Nismo and has built and campaigned several race cars.
There's Dave Coleman another former SCC editor and current engineer for Mazda NA who writes and contributes for Moto IQ.
And then there's Eric Hsu who owns XS Engineering, currently serves as the head of engineering at Cosworth NA and consults for a number of Time Attack teams including the record setting Sierra Sierra Evo.
In a nutshell Mike and the staff there have forgotten more than most of us will ever know about cars, engines and chassis set up. To call them amateurs is laughable at best. You may not agree with how the test was done but they are far from amateurs or late to the "game".
01-21-11, 01:09 PM
#6
Ummm..........no! The car belongs to Mike Kojima who amongst other things owns Moto IQ, was the technical editor for Sport Compact Car, currently serves as the crew chief and suspension guru for Dai Yoshihara's Formula D drift car, former engineer for Nissan NA/Nismo and has built and campaigned several race cars.
There's Dave Coleman another former SCC editor and current engineer for Mazda NA who writes and contributes for Moto IQ.
And then there's Eric Hsu who owns XS Engineering, currently serves as the head of engineering at Cosworth NA and consults for a number of Time Attack teams including the record setting Sierra Sierra Evo.
In a nutshell Mike and the staff there have forgotten more than most of us will ever know about cars, engines and chassis set up. To call them amateurs is laughable at best. You may not agree with how the test was done but they are far from amateurs or late to the "game".
There's Dave Coleman another former SCC editor and current engineer for Mazda NA who writes and contributes for Moto IQ.
And then there's Eric Hsu who owns XS Engineering, currently serves as the head of engineering at Cosworth NA and consults for a number of Time Attack teams including the record setting Sierra Sierra Evo.
In a nutshell Mike and the staff there have forgotten more than most of us will ever know about cars, engines and chassis set up. To call them amateurs is laughable at best. You may not agree with how the test was done but they are far from amateurs or late to the "game".
and eric hsu??? he's a rotory guru... pssshhh...
next time you see eric, tell him i told u to ask him about the bridge in hawaii
oh... *disclaimer*... i'm being sarcastic here...
both mike and eric are indeed gurus in their respective fields. i totally respect both of them... they both give me crap so i gotta give some back once in a while...
01-21-11, 02:52 PM
#7
mike kojima??? what does that old guy know about LEXUS??? he's a nissan guy... LoL
and eric hsu??? he's a rotory guru... pssshhh...
next time you see eric, tell him i told u to ask him about the bridge in hawaii
oh... *disclaimer*... i'm being sarcastic here...
both mike and eric are indeed gurus in their respective fields. i totally respect both of them... they both give me crap so i gotta give some back once in a while...
and eric hsu??? he's a rotory guru... pssshhh...
next time you see eric, tell him i told u to ask him about the bridge in hawaii
oh... *disclaimer*... i'm being sarcastic here...
both mike and eric are indeed gurus in their respective fields. i totally respect both of them... they both give me crap so i gotta give some back once in a while...
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01-21-11, 03:13 PM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Ummm..........no! The car belongs to Mike Kojima who amongst other things owns Moto IQ, was the technical editor for Sport Compact Car, currently serves as the crew chief and suspension guru for Dai Yoshihara's Formula D drift car, former engineer for Nissan NA/Nismo and has built and campaigned several race cars.
There's Dave Coleman another former SCC editor and current engineer for Mazda NA who writes and contributes for Moto IQ.
And then there's Eric Hsu who owns XS Engineering, currently serves as the head of engineering at Cosworth NA and consults for a number of Time Attack teams including the record setting Sierra Sierra Evo.
In a nutshell Mike and the staff there have forgotten more than most of us will ever know about cars, engines and chassis set up. To call them amateurs is laughable at best. You may not agree with how the test was done but they are far from amateurs or late to the "game".
There's Dave Coleman another former SCC editor and current engineer for Mazda NA who writes and contributes for Moto IQ.
And then there's Eric Hsu who owns XS Engineering, currently serves as the head of engineering at Cosworth NA and consults for a number of Time Attack teams including the record setting Sierra Sierra Evo.
In a nutshell Mike and the staff there have forgotten more than most of us will ever know about cars, engines and chassis set up. To call them amateurs is laughable at best. You may not agree with how the test was done but they are far from amateurs or late to the "game".
MotoIQ is top notch.
01-21-11, 03:45 PM
#10
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Kojima wrote a series for Sport Compact Car on suspension - one of the few magazine articles I would call well worth the read. Definitely no slouch when it comes to understanding chassis dynamics.
01-21-11, 04:27 PM
#11
Until the IS-F ECU can be fully tuned, I don't think a aftermarket intake will yield any long term gains. Dynoing the intake right after the install will yield good results, such as those posted on the site, but after the ECU compensates for the extra airflow, those yields will be thrown out the door...such as I saw when I dynoed my car with the K&N intake:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...-flap-mod.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...-flap-mod.html
01-21-11, 04:54 PM
#12
Hello fellow IS-F owners!
I came on here to answer some of your questions. We tested in 3rd rather than a 1 to 1 gear because that is what K&N tested in and I was in not beliving the dyno results that they provided us. I was actualy expecting to prove them wrong and was pretty suprised to get the results we recorded.
For automatics you can't generalize and say that the lower gears will make more power as the powerflow through the planetary gears doesnt always behave like a typical manual. If you note, our test has a pretty low overall power output compared to what you might have seen in this forum. Some of this is because the Superflow dyno is conservative compared to a Dynojet. I think in a 1:1 gear the results would have been more liberal.
The way we test is to make many pulls with all power accesories off with time in between runs with the engine at idle and the dyno fans blowing until the coolant temperature stabilizes. We run until the power gets stable, typicaly 3-6 runs and pick one of the average runs. We use SAE correction to make up for differences in air density.
The important thing is not to look at the overall numbers but to look at the Delta or change in numbers. That is the important variable. We also didnt pick the best intake numbers, we picked a stable average number. We did pick the best of the stock runs because I knew people would question our results and I wanted to be conservative!
Seat of the pants is amazing too, the car feels much faster!
It says most of this in the body of the article but many people don't read the details and give it a quick skim over.
I want to get a Joe's garage exhaust to test because it appears to be the best design on the market, at least in my opinion.
The other thing to remember is that I am not going to build the baddest *** IS-F in the world. That is not my intent. This is my daily driver and I don't want to mess up the car for the reasons I bought it for, a really nice daily driver street car. I got a lot of other fast but annoying cars in the garage for when I am in the mood and I don't want to make this one too extreme.
I will try out and report on some nice parts in the future in MotoIQ and share the results with you but don't expect me to take on the Sierra Sierra EVO or the FXMD NSX with it, or make it into the JDM VIP Hellaflush show monster!
Finaly I am not just a Nissan guy, I only own one Nissan. The rest are Toyota's and Mistsubishis.
I hope you have fun reading our stuff and if you have questions about one of the articles, you can comment in the box below them and I will do my best to answer all of them.
Mike
For automatics you can't generalize and say that the lower gears will make more power as the powerflow through the planetary gears doesnt always behave like a typical manual. If you note, our test has a pretty low overall power output compared to what you might have seen in this forum. Some of this is because the Superflow dyno is conservative compared to a Dynojet. I think in a 1:1 gear the results would have been more liberal.
The way we test is to make many pulls with all power accesories off with time in between runs with the engine at idle and the dyno fans blowing until the coolant temperature stabilizes. We run until the power gets stable, typicaly 3-6 runs and pick one of the average runs. We use SAE correction to make up for differences in air density.
The important thing is not to look at the overall numbers but to look at the Delta or change in numbers. That is the important variable. We also didnt pick the best intake numbers, we picked a stable average number. We did pick the best of the stock runs because I knew people would question our results and I wanted to be conservative!
Seat of the pants is amazing too, the car feels much faster!
It says most of this in the body of the article but many people don't read the details and give it a quick skim over.
I want to get a Joe's garage exhaust to test because it appears to be the best design on the market, at least in my opinion.
The other thing to remember is that I am not going to build the baddest *** IS-F in the world. That is not my intent. This is my daily driver and I don't want to mess up the car for the reasons I bought it for, a really nice daily driver street car. I got a lot of other fast but annoying cars in the garage for when I am in the mood and I don't want to make this one too extreme.
I will try out and report on some nice parts in the future in MotoIQ and share the results with you but don't expect me to take on the Sierra Sierra EVO or the FXMD NSX with it, or make it into the JDM VIP Hellaflush show monster!
Finaly I am not just a Nissan guy, I only own one Nissan. The rest are Toyota's and Mistsubishis.
I hope you have fun reading our stuff and if you have questions about one of the articles, you can comment in the box below them and I will do my best to answer all of them.
Mike
01-21-11, 05:25 PM
#13
Hey thanks for the update Mike. It seemed you were trying to replicate the K&N study, and it seemed you did that. Can't wait to see your subtle additions to the F. My setup currently is K&N intake, ISS forged track exhaust and Tom's LTC. This combo is a beast (IMHO) it is also a daily driver.
01-21-11, 10:39 PM
#14
I wish they had the LTC for the Tundra, I hate how it has an overly touchy throttle.
I am taking to AEM about applying their electronicaly tuned intake technology to the IS-F. That would stop any ecu re tuning of things.
I am going to retest the intake after some miles to see if the ecu dialing back the engine output is true.
I am taking to AEM about applying their electronicaly tuned intake technology to the IS-F. That would stop any ecu re tuning of things.
I am going to retest the intake after some miles to see if the ecu dialing back the engine output is true.
01-22-11, 03:28 AM
#15
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I understand why you did the dyno testing in 3rd gear and that is absolutely valid.
Most of us use 6th gear for dyno measurements as explained by other members so it would be interesting if you could perform the next dyno tests in both 3rd and 6th gears so we can see if it makes that big a difference.
There is just 1 thing that stroke me in your article is that you wrote the suspension has been tuned by Bilstein when it is built and developed by Tokico. Could you detail more on this aspect, please?
Most of us use 6th gear for dyno measurements as explained by other members so it would be interesting if you could perform the next dyno tests in both 3rd and 6th gears so we can see if it makes that big a difference.
There is just 1 thing that stroke me in your article is that you wrote the suspension has been tuned by Bilstein when it is built and developed by Tokico. Could you detail more on this aspect, please?