Post dyno results (JOEZ exhaust + JOEZ intake + Tom's air filter) = NO POWER GAIN!!!!
10-23-10, 01:59 AM
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Post dyno results (JOEZ exhaust + JOEZ intake + Tom's air filter) = NO POWER GAIN!!!!
Well guys, I am EXTREMELY disappointed, to say the least. Of all of my years of modifying high performance cars, I have never spent a couple of thousand dollars to see NO POWER gain whatsoever. Before anyone asks:
Same dyno
Same driving distance to the shop both times (about 30 minutes)
about the same time to cool down (about 20 minutes to set-up)
Same shop
6th gear runs (1:1 ratio)
Turned Traction control completely off and on Sport mode
20 degrees cooler weather after modifications (about 1 month apart)
Same settings - SAE corrected with a smoothing curve set at 5
Same fuel (91 octane from Chevron - about the best you can get in California)
As you can see from my previos thread, I obtained baseline numbers a little over a month ago. I subsequently had the JOEZ exhaust installed, JOEZ intake tube, and Tom's air filter as well. The ECU was reset at the time of modifications. I drove the car for about 1 month (logged about 250 miles) for the PCM to make the appropriate adjustments, and then brought it back to redyno after the modifications. Like everyone else, I was expecting an approximate 25 RWHP SAE and around 20 RWHP SAE gain, which with my baseline numbers being at 352 RWHP SAE and 346 RWTQ SAE, I was expecting around 377 RWHP SAE and 366 RWTQ SAE, but the post modifications dyno numbers were about the same (within 1 - 2 HP, and can be attributed to dyno run variances), if not worst than stock. The car is running rich, richer than stock (mostly after 5800 RPM or so), which is odd, because with the modifications, it should have leaned out, especially with no secondary cats. There are no power gains even before the AFR goes really rich. I will post the updated dyno graph plots as soon as I receive it via e-mail. I was so dumbfounded, that I requested for a 4th run, and the numbers were even worst after heat soak. I even asked for a cool down between the first run and second of around 20 minutes, but it did worst. I have never been so disappointed with mods, and am sorry to feel in my situation that it was money wasted not to see any power gains whatsoever, not at peak, or under the curve either. As previously mentioned, JOEZ is a great guy, and the quality of the products is great, and I am by no means bashing him, but any one else in my shoes would feel the same way, no matter how you look at it. What gives? What are your thoughts?
Below is the dyno graphs Runs 1 - 3 were stock, and 4 - 7 were with the mods:
Same dyno
Same driving distance to the shop both times (about 30 minutes)
about the same time to cool down (about 20 minutes to set-up)
Same shop
6th gear runs (1:1 ratio)
Turned Traction control completely off and on Sport mode
20 degrees cooler weather after modifications (about 1 month apart)
Same settings - SAE corrected with a smoothing curve set at 5
Same fuel (91 octane from Chevron - about the best you can get in California)
As you can see from my previos thread, I obtained baseline numbers a little over a month ago. I subsequently had the JOEZ exhaust installed, JOEZ intake tube, and Tom's air filter as well. The ECU was reset at the time of modifications. I drove the car for about 1 month (logged about 250 miles) for the PCM to make the appropriate adjustments, and then brought it back to redyno after the modifications. Like everyone else, I was expecting an approximate 25 RWHP SAE and around 20 RWHP SAE gain, which with my baseline numbers being at 352 RWHP SAE and 346 RWTQ SAE, I was expecting around 377 RWHP SAE and 366 RWTQ SAE, but the post modifications dyno numbers were about the same (within 1 - 2 HP, and can be attributed to dyno run variances), if not worst than stock. The car is running rich, richer than stock (mostly after 5800 RPM or so), which is odd, because with the modifications, it should have leaned out, especially with no secondary cats. There are no power gains even before the AFR goes really rich. I will post the updated dyno graph plots as soon as I receive it via e-mail. I was so dumbfounded, that I requested for a 4th run, and the numbers were even worst after heat soak. I even asked for a cool down between the first run and second of around 20 minutes, but it did worst. I have never been so disappointed with mods, and am sorry to feel in my situation that it was money wasted not to see any power gains whatsoever, not at peak, or under the curve either. As previously mentioned, JOEZ is a great guy, and the quality of the products is great, and I am by no means bashing him, but any one else in my shoes would feel the same way, no matter how you look at it. What gives? What are your thoughts?
Below is the dyno graphs Runs 1 - 3 were stock, and 4 - 7 were with the mods:
Last edited by ISFC6; 10-24-10 at 05:48 PM.
10-23-10, 03:15 AM
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Wow, from all that we've seen here with dynos and such you should have netted a nice chunk of hp.
As to why you didn't is a mystery.......Maybe do a scan to find the fault? -- something's not right, try another dyno???????
As to why you didn't is a mystery.......Maybe do a scan to find the fault? -- something's not right, try another dyno???????
10-23-10, 05:34 AM
#6
Not just limited to the ISF, but even 4-bangers like civics, or probably even a John Deer tractor plowing a corn field, if you have a "higher flow" intake and exhaust then you should always get something. Something is wrong with the Dyno or your ISF, it's very apparent.
Just chill and start troubleshooting calmly before jumping to immature conclusions. I mean, so far, you're the only one that doesn't get +net hps from the mods, espeically the JoeZ exhaust? C'mon man! Think about it.
I don't have a JoeZ exhaust, but from all that I have seen and read, it's on my list.
Just chill and start troubleshooting calmly before jumping to immature conclusions. I mean, so far, you're the only one that doesn't get +net hps from the mods, espeically the JoeZ exhaust? C'mon man! Think about it.
I don't have a JoeZ exhaust, but from all that I have seen and read, it's on my list.
10-23-10, 07:26 AM
#7
Lexus Champion
I'm sure Joe Z will be on here sometime in the near future and will post. I would definitely say something else is working improperly and what exactly that is needs to be figured out and corrected. There have been numerous 3rd party dyno results proving Joe Z's work and hp/torque increases. Definitely post up the dyno graphs (both before and after if you have the ability) so we can see them. Also check to make sure your exhaust was installed properly, did your or a shop do the install work?
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10-23-10, 07:32 AM
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Don't mean to divert out of topic, but out of curiosity if you have this exhaust and intake system, what happens if you don't reset the ECU at the time of installation? 
10-23-10, 10:18 AM
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Just jumping in here real quick, as I noticed this thread..
Some quick things I see are that:
1) You only logged 250 miles in 6 weeks. The ECU hasn't even fully cycled yet...
(simply not enough miles in 6 weeks of driving)
2) The exhasut takes around 700-1,000 miles to fully break in.
3) Also, almost all of the folks who have dyno'd this package together, to my knowledge, were running the stock oem engine air filter...
These are just some of the quick variables I noticed that more than likely are attributing to your results..
This is also considering that everything was properly installed..
We will talk more to help you get this all figured out...!!
As you can see your results are not inline with everyone elses..
Regards,
Joe Z
Some quick things I see are that:
1) You only logged 250 miles in 6 weeks. The ECU hasn't even fully cycled yet...
(simply not enough miles in 6 weeks of driving)
2) The exhasut takes around 700-1,000 miles to fully break in.
3) Also, almost all of the folks who have dyno'd this package together, to my knowledge, were running the stock oem engine air filter...
These are just some of the quick variables I noticed that more than likely are attributing to your results..
This is also considering that everything was properly installed..
We will talk more to help you get this all figured out...!!
As you can see your results are not inline with everyone elses..
Regards,
Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 10-24-10 at 03:57 PM. Reason: changed "one month" to "6 weeks"
10-23-10, 10:53 AM
#11
Not just limited to the ISF, but even 4-bangers like civics, or probably even a John Deer tractor plowing a corn field, if you have a "higher flow" intake and exhaust then you should always get something. Something is wrong with the Dyno or your ISF, it's very apparent.
Just chill and start troubleshooting calmly before jumping to immature conclusions. I mean, so far, you're the only one that doesn't get +net hps from the mods, espeically the JoeZ exhaust? C'mon man! Think about it.
I don't have a JoeZ exhaust, but from all that I have seen and read, it's on my list.
Just chill and start troubleshooting calmly before jumping to immature conclusions. I mean, so far, you're the only one that doesn't get +net hps from the mods, espeically the JoeZ exhaust? C'mon man! Think about it.
I don't have a JoeZ exhaust, but from all that I have seen and read, it's on my list.
As mentioned before if you can post the before and after graphs it would help quite a bit.
10-23-10, 11:22 AM
#13
I would be pissed if I spent all that money and gained nothing! I thought these modes would net more than 20 hp? Does not seem like a good investment to me 2k for 20hp? 1000 dollars for 10 hp? The main power gains are from removing the secondary cats right? One thing I have learned from all my years of modifyng cars is every car is different just b/c one car gains x amount of power does not mean your car will gain the same.
Really sorry about your car man! Best of luck to you!
Really sorry about your car man! Best of luck to you!
10-23-10, 11:34 AM
#14
Not just limited to the ISF, but even 4-bangers like civics, or probably even a John Deer tractor plowing a corn field, if you have a "higher flow" intake and exhaust then you should always get something. Something is wrong with the Dyno or your ISF, it's very apparent.
Just chill and start troubleshooting calmly before jumping to immature conclusions. I mean, so far, you're the only one that doesn't get +net hps from the mods, espeically the JoeZ exhaust? C'mon man! Think about it.
I don't have a JoeZ exhaust, but from all that I have seen and read, it's on my list.
Just chill and start troubleshooting calmly before jumping to immature conclusions. I mean, so far, you're the only one that doesn't get +net hps from the mods, espeically the JoeZ exhaust? C'mon man! Think about it.
I don't have a JoeZ exhaust, but from all that I have seen and read, it's on my list.
lol you are crazy man! how about you go spend 2k and gain nothing and see how chill you are? and how in any way is he jumping to immature conclusions? He is simply posting his results, So you need to go chill! Lol
10-23-10, 11:44 AM
#15
Okay, replace "immature" with "early" conclusions. I guess I am crazy..... So now he is an early? And yes, I have spent much more money than that during my honda days my dear just to get +20 hps. As you mod your car, you will then realize that it's not the final hp gains that make your car special, it's the mods themselves that make your car special to you and different to others.....correct?