houstonT

Any updates Lance?

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

So I drove about 2000 miles over the weekend and figured I'd post an update on the tire wear problem. So far, so good. Wear looks to be very even across the tire as it was on my IS350.
Full tire shot:


Inside Edge wear by the penny method:


Outside Edge wear by the penny method:


So a couple of things to note - the tie rods will change toe approximately 1/8" per full revolution on one side. If you want your center steer point to remain straight ahead, you'll need to make adjustments to both sides. If you adjust both sides out one full turn on each side, you'll have +1/4" toe out. That's a LOT for a street driven car. A half turn on each side would yield 1/8", and a quarter turn on each side would yield 1/16".

I am currently at 1/16" total toe out in the front, and the wear I'm seeing looks very good for street duty. The good part is, I can now adjust the toe out for the track just by marking and loosening for track days, then tightening back to street settings for normal driving. Or I can accept 22k miles as the "normal" service life for the fronts. I don't like that idea much.

Street driving the car, I can tell no difference between the alignments. I'm sure on the track I could tell the difference pretty easily on turn in.

I'll continue to update this thread as the tires wear, but initial results indicate 1/16" toe out will work well.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

All appears to be wearing well at this point with the new alignment.

Full view:


Inside edge 1:


Inside edge 2:


Outside edge 1:


Outside edge 2:


Tread wear total, 4k miles:

IS-SV

Interesting topic, will stay posted....

ES3

Great info here guys, just to confirm, I want 1/16th out, as opposed to factory setting to get near even tread wear?

Also, is there ANY benefit to rotating (removing the tires from rims) to extend the tire life, as my insides are "bald" according to the dealer at 16k miles?
Or is a "bald" tire on the oustside just as dangerous?

Also, for you buying used replacement tires, would you intead consider something like these for the cost?

Also, any problem with different tread up front vs. the rear And is this type of wear common for any other type of higher performance sedan?
M3? Merc C-amg etc?


http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....8&autoModel=IS F&autoModClar=

Or These?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....8&autoModel=IS F&autoModClar=

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

1/16" toe out is within factory spec. 1/8" is actually too much toe out according to factory spec, but it's where Lexus set it at the factory.

Tires are your own choice. I'm pretty opinionated about tires, so I'm not going to comment.

If you look at the tread on the RE050A, you'll see the pattern is not symmetric. The outside tread blocks are wider than the inside tread blocks. Swapping from one side to the other might be OK, but it's not exactly cost effective depending on how much dismount, remount, and balance costs. If your primary concern about your tires is they prevent the rims from running directly on pavement, you could probably swap them around and not notice any difference at all.

On my 350, I wore out the outside edges. On my first set of Bridgestones I wore out both the outside and the inside edges. This last set was definitely biased toward inside edge wear which is why I took the car to a shop specializing in aligning race cars. They don't pay much attention to the red, yellow, and green; they know what works. Honestly, the guy who did the alignment thought the 22k I got on my fronts was pretty good. I just don't like wearing out the inside edges for no good reason.

I'd rather not have this thread veer off into tire selection, tire rotation, or other related but not specifically alignment topics. Let's try to keep this concise and focused on what alignment will give good wear AND respectable street handling.

I already know what works at the track. I just want to find the happy medium, much the same as I did for Supra owners way back in '97.

E6BAV8R

Great.

So, in actuality I could just take your Alignment Spec Sheet and take it to the alignment center, and they should be able to change the Front and Rear Toe to your "Actual" column numbers (Front: 0.03" and Rear: 0.07"); as it appears you didn't have to move your Camber or Caster.

Also, if you don't mind my asking, how much did you pay to move your Toe and get the Alignment after the move? I'm just trying to get a good idea of what I might expect to pay. I know a lot of alignment centers charge extra to move the Camber, but it doesn't appear we have to do that here?

Thanks for your help.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I paid $100 for a skilled person to do the job, not someone who only knows how to adjust until the display flashes green. The best way to find someone like this in your area is to look for someone who does alignments for racers. Gran Turismo in Atlanta (Chamblee area) came highly recommended on the Flying Miatas board, and they definitely know how to set up a car. It was worth every penny.

E6BAV8R

Thanks for the rec.

I am taking mine to a 3rd party dedicated alignment center here in DFW. Essentially, all we're adjusting is reducing the toe out on the front tires from 1/8" to 1/16", correct? Also, I will ensure the rears stay within Lexus factory settings. I'm wondering if taking your new spec. sheet to the alignment center and having them match up the "After" column numbers will suffice; or, just telling them to reduce the front tire toe from 1/8" to 1/16". Any thoughts on that?

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I'd tell them you're looking for 1/32" to 1/16" toe out when they're done. No more than 1/16". Odds are they'll be using angular measurements if they're using a computerized machine. Many of these machines do not take wheel diameter into account, they use a "standard" diameter which is where part of the problem lies. Linear measurements get it right without question, angular measurements can be all screwy. You'll need to do some trigonometry to convert the angles to linear measurements, but it's pretty simple trig.

E6BAV8R

So Lexus measures Toe IN/OUT in MM/Inches. Why on earth do they set a value and such a large +/- factor; no wonder cars come off the assembly line where none are the same. In our cars with too much Toe Out - the leading edge of the front tires is pointed too much outward; not inward toward each other?

Anyway, since most alignment machines measure in degrees, and reading from your other post, the Lexus standard TOE Range is: -0.1798 to +0.5395 degrees; where negative is Toe Out. So, if we figure out what 1/16" - 1/32", converted to degrees, than I can tell the alignment center to adjust to that very specific degree?

When you get the alignment sheet, I can then simply ensure the Left and Right Front Tire Toe is the value we figure here; and the Total simply falls within spec. I assume to leave the Rear Tires the same, simply ensuring they're in spec.?

If alignment centers are saying the Lexus Toe Specs are -0.05 - 0.20 degrees, for each Front Left and Right Tire, respectively, where the hell are they getting those numbers? Or was -0.1798 to +0.5395 degrees the TOTAL Toe? If so, we then need to find each Front Left and Right Tire specs in MM?

Just trying to understand this and make it clear to myself. I'm not alignment savvy at all.

shui3000

got lots of inner tire wear, especially on front right tire. always got alignments with firestone lifetime alignment, what should i tell them to fix the problem?

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Stop looking at the green lights and set the toe correctly. I've never seen a good alignment tech at any of the high volume places.

FWIW, I'm still doing very well with the new settings. No evidence at all of any abnormal inner edge wear.

mugenh22a4

iTrader: (9)

This was a good read. It sounds like I'll be getting my car in for re-alignment soon.

For you Seattle area guys, I go to Speedware Motorsports in Redmond to do my alignments. They do prep for race cars and I've always gotten good advice and results from them. I've also heard that Fordahl in Bellevue is good too. I haven't been there myself.

I'll be calculating and posting the 1/32 to 1/16ths toe out to an equivalent degrees pretty soon. It's still dark out and I can't get an accurate measurement on the OD of the front tires.

mugenh22a4

iTrader: (9)

Okay, so I measured a rolling diameter of 26.75" on my front RE050A's. Assuming that:

1) the 1/32" to 1/16" of toe out is measured at the tread radius, and
2) the 1/32" to 1/16" of toe is PER WHEEL and not total

then that equates to .13° to .26° of toe out at each wheel.

lobux, thanks a lot for creating this thread. I'll be taking your alignment spec PDF to Speedware this week and have them align to those specs.