Reconsidering the Factory Alignment
#256
Racer
^ Lobuxracer have you upgraded your LCA bushing?
#257
Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
Except under acceleration and in motion, you get toe out too. Just not as much as braking. That's why it's a big balancing act to figure out what static setting gives best dynamic compliance.
If it weren't for NVH, we'd be way better off with spherical bearings and get rid of all the rubber junk.
If it weren't for NVH, we'd be way better off with spherical bearings and get rid of all the rubber junk.
Agreed, theoretically spherical bearings are the solution for pure race track application, but since the NVH is excessive, a 95 durometer poly bushing and redesigned thrust loaded housing is the next best thing.
Under braking the toe out effect is obvious... under lateral deflections of the suspension, all kinds of non-symmetric toe and caster changes occur which really mess with handling and steering response.
There is definitely a heightened sense of steering feel with our USRS, but I would not say that NVH is excessive by any means, unless you expect your ISF to feel like an LS.
I recall an old C&D article about the E36 M3 steering, and the author remarked that your hands can feel a quarter in on the road through the steering wheel as go over it... I think it was a bit of an exaggeration, but that was partly our goal with the USRS, to really get that steering feel that the ISF and other Lexus models lack.
-Rafi
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#258
Tech Info Resource
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
#259
Racer
iTrader: (4)
So I added some font toe out myself today (thanks for the instruction Lubox). I felt a difference in highway stability, feels maybe 30% better with an occasional wandering under acceleration. I think the tires and spacers account for the rest of the feeling I am getting. I did immediately notice the improved turn in...I like it much better. Overall I am happy with the set up as is, I think the highway driving part is just something I have to her accostumed to.
I plan on getting front LCA bushings (either figs or RR) and camber arms for the rear. My rear cross camber is pretty bad - 1.5 and -2.2. Surprising to me since I am on swift springs in the front and stock in the rear.
I plan on getting front LCA bushings (either figs or RR) and camber arms for the rear. My rear cross camber is pretty bad - 1.5 and -2.2. Surprising to me since I am on swift springs in the front and stock in the rear.
#260
Tech Info Resource
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
So I added some font toe out myself today (thanks for the instruction Lubox). I felt a difference in highway stability, feels maybe 30% better with an occasional wandering under acceleration. I think the tires and spacers account for the rest of the feeling I am getting. I did immediately notice the improved turn in...I like it much better. Overall I am happy with the set up as is, I think the highway driving part is just something I have to her accostumed to.
I plan on getting front LCA bushings (either figs or RR) and camber arms for the rear. My rear cross camber is pretty bad - 1.5 and -2.2. Surprising to me since I am on swift springs in the front and stock in the rear.
I plan on getting front LCA bushings (either figs or RR) and camber arms for the rear. My rear cross camber is pretty bad - 1.5 and -2.2. Surprising to me since I am on swift springs in the front and stock in the rear.
#262
Racer
#263
Tech Info Resource
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
I'll never understand the crap people tolerate for fashion.
#265
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (20)
Except under acceleration and in motion, you get toe out too. Just not as much as braking. That's why it's a big balancing act to figure out what static setting gives best dynamic compliance.
If it weren't for NVH, we'd be way better off with spherical bearings and get rid of all the rubber junk.
If it weren't for NVH, we'd be way better off with spherical bearings and get rid of all the rubber junk.
this time , im getting my RR racing bushings in this weekend and getting an alignment coming up next week. what would you suggest with the toe setting after the bushings? do you still recommend that i do the 0 toe? camber will be around 1.6-2.0.
also the rear , i think you told me to go with a -0.1 toe if im not mistaken .
thanks
#266
The Maker
iTrader: (11)
So I added some font toe out myself today (thanks for the instruction Lubox). I felt a difference in highway stability, feels maybe 30% better with an occasional wandering under acceleration. I think the tires and spacers account for the rest of the feeling I am getting. I did immediately notice the improved turn in...I like it much better. Overall I am happy with the set up as is, I think the highway driving part is just something I have to her accostumed to.
I plan on getting front LCA bushings (either figs or RR) and camber arms for the rear. My rear cross camber is pretty bad - 1.5 and -2.2. Surprising to me since I am on swift springs in the front and stock in the rear.
I plan on getting front LCA bushings (either figs or RR) and camber arms for the rear. My rear cross camber is pretty bad - 1.5 and -2.2. Surprising to me since I am on swift springs in the front and stock in the rear.
Really improves stability under braking load and progressively resisting the force. The thing that I have noticed with cross camber is that it has to be cross member shift. Everything else is static so the lower arm must be moved laterally on mount. Caster numbers seem to stay the same as well. I have an RCF customer reporting the same with a pull to the right and quite a cross camber difference.
Ditch those spacers and see how it impacts things. We run an 0.1 degrees total toe out with our bushings for steer in and -2.5 degrees of camber to get contact patch where it should be for the grip we get at the track but the key is to have the cross camber/caster sorted out for balance. The suspension gains both camber and caster on compression so ride height comes into play more than people think when it comes to how the car sits in a corner.
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Redefining Lexus Aftermarket Parts Since 2001
-- We are your Lexus suspension experts--
BCR - KW - PENSKE - OHLINS - HKS - GREDDY - STANCEPARTS
Links - Arms - SuperPro Poly Bushings - Solid Bearing Conversions - Motor Mounts
RB BBK's and 2P Rotors, G-Loc pads, Radium Fuel Systems
Custom Fabrication Design and Machining - Industrial 3D Printing - Laser Cutting
2018 USTCC Sportsman Class Champions - 2018 NASA ST5 National Champions
#267
Racer
iTrader: (4)
Thanks for the link Figs!
Closing the loop on my issue - I had another alignment done, this time at the Lexus dealer - the rear toe was out of spec on the right rear wheel. (not sure how this happened since the printout I got from my shop showed it spot on). I also removed the rear spacers, cleaned the hub of some light rust and reinstalled the spacers and torque'd down the wheel lug nuts to factory specs (they were seriously over tightened). I still need to do the same to the front.
Unstable-ness problem is gone - Although I still have some very slight pulling to the right under acceleration.
Closing the loop on my issue - I had another alignment done, this time at the Lexus dealer - the rear toe was out of spec on the right rear wheel. (not sure how this happened since the printout I got from my shop showed it spot on). I also removed the rear spacers, cleaned the hub of some light rust and reinstalled the spacers and torque'd down the wheel lug nuts to factory specs (they were seriously over tightened). I still need to do the same to the front.
Unstable-ness problem is gone - Although I still have some very slight pulling to the right under acceleration.
#268
Gone back for alignment today, they.told me I need a caster kit for the front to align correctly, I'm just surprised because the car is completely stock except for upsized tires, can it.be right? The issue is that car feels floaty at high speed since tire/alignment, tanx for.any input
#269
The Maker
iTrader: (11)
Gone back for alignment today, they.told me I need a caster kit for the front to align correctly, I'm just surprised because the car is completely stock except for upsized tires, can it.be right? The issue is that car feels floaty at high speed since tire/alignment, tanx for.any input
Mike
__________________
Redefining Lexus Aftermarket Parts Since 2001
-- We are your Lexus suspension experts--
BCR - KW - PENSKE - OHLINS - HKS - GREDDY - STANCEPARTS
Links - Arms - SuperPro Poly Bushings - Solid Bearing Conversions - Motor Mounts
RB BBK's and 2P Rotors, G-Loc pads, Radium Fuel Systems
Custom Fabrication Design and Machining - Industrial 3D Printing - Laser Cutting
2018 USTCC Sportsman Class Champions - 2018 NASA ST5 National Champions
Redefining Lexus Aftermarket Parts Since 2001
-- We are your Lexus suspension experts--
BCR - KW - PENSKE - OHLINS - HKS - GREDDY - STANCEPARTS
Links - Arms - SuperPro Poly Bushings - Solid Bearing Conversions - Motor Mounts
RB BBK's and 2P Rotors, G-Loc pads, Radium Fuel Systems
Custom Fabrication Design and Machining - Industrial 3D Printing - Laser Cutting
2018 USTCC Sportsman Class Champions - 2018 NASA ST5 National Champions
#270
Tech Info Resource
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Gone back for alignment today, they.told me I need a caster kit for the front to align correctly, I'm just surprised because the car is completely stock except for upsized tires, can it.be right? The issue is that car feels floaty at high speed since tire/alignment, tanx for.any input