Narrowing Down Tires...
12-30-09, 02:41 PM
#46
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alot of it comes downt to money too guys...
PS2's will run ya $1400 for tires
Hankook V12's are $720
IMO, the PS2's a nicer tire, but not double the tire the Hankook is. I'll save 50% and go with the Hankooks. I'm not pushing my car to the limit every time I drive it, heck its my daily driver and I'm running to work/ect...
don't forget to talk about the money part of it though, is all i'm saying. its the absoulte biggest factor of all, otherwise people would ovbiously go with the 'best' Mich/Bridge
PS2's will run ya $1400 for tires
Hankook V12's are $720
IMO, the PS2's a nicer tire, but not double the tire the Hankook is. I'll save 50% and go with the Hankooks. I'm not pushing my car to the limit every time I drive it, heck its my daily driver and I'm running to work/ect...
don't forget to talk about the money part of it though, is all i'm saying. its the absoulte biggest factor of all, otherwise people would ovbiously go with the 'best' Mich/Bridge
For the kind of driving you're talking about, you might want to look at the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S - guaranteed for 45k miles, all seaon tire so they'll not be a worry if its a little snowy, and they'll perform respectably in the dry (at least they do on the wife's 2900 lb Scion in a 245/40/17). With the 45k mileage warranty, it might make them cheaper than the Hankooks in the long run.
If I had a second set of wheels for track use, I'd probably run the A/S on the street for exactly the reasons you stated.
12-30-09, 06:57 PM
#47
Tires are special. Only the Bridgestones and the Michelins have been optimized for the F. When the Supra came out it had Michelin Pilot MXX3s specifically made for it. It pulled 0.98g on a 300 ft skidpad with those tires on a hard top model. At the time the only thing coming close BAR NONE was the Mazda RX-7.
Brakes are about feel. Tires are the one thing affecting a car's performance more than any other single item. Good tires will be good performers. Great tires will kick the snot out of everything else. A tire optimized by the factory to produce superior performance will be VERY difficult to beat with anything aftermarket.
When I raced motorcycles I had a chat with the guy running the tire truck. He said he had a tire measurably faster (1.5 - 2 seconds a lap) costing $10 more than what all the mid-pack guys were running. They'd spend thousands on building the bike, a grand on getting the bike to the track, hotel for the weekend, entry fees, etc...and then they'd cheap out on the tires by $10 and run 2 seconds off the pace all weekend.
My next set of tires will be the IS-F specific PS2s. I drove them at Atlanta Motor Speedway during the Lexus Driving Academy. I believe they're measurably better than anything else available if lap times are important to you. If lap times are not important, buy whatever you like for whatever reason you'd like to choose, but you won't out-perform the PS2s on a closed course with anything else short of competition tires.
Brakes are about feel. Tires are the one thing affecting a car's performance more than any other single item. Good tires will be good performers. Great tires will kick the snot out of everything else. A tire optimized by the factory to produce superior performance will be VERY difficult to beat with anything aftermarket.
When I raced motorcycles I had a chat with the guy running the tire truck. He said he had a tire measurably faster (1.5 - 2 seconds a lap) costing $10 more than what all the mid-pack guys were running. They'd spend thousands on building the bike, a grand on getting the bike to the track, hotel for the weekend, entry fees, etc...and then they'd cheap out on the tires by $10 and run 2 seconds off the pace all weekend.
My next set of tires will be the IS-F specific PS2s. I drove them at Atlanta Motor Speedway during the Lexus Driving Academy. I believe they're measurably better than anything else available if lap times are important to you. If lap times are not important, buy whatever you like for whatever reason you'd like to choose, but you won't out-perform the PS2s on a closed course with anything else short of competition tires.
If you are concerned about lap times why wouldn't you drive a car with much better power to weight ratios like a Z06, or GT3? Used Z06's can be found all day long for 40K, which is a direction I may head when I retire.
The F is a very nice car for spirited driving, and occasionally taking to the track, and BTW I love the trans, but it does seem pretty heavy if you are looking for low lap times. There are much better performers available at reasonable prices.
12-30-09, 07:55 PM
#48
huh. weird how people have different opinions about this stuff.
For me, the tires are the single biggest determinant of overall performance that I can change/control.
People on this website spend thousands and thousands of dollars modding $60,000 cars in hopes of gaining an imperceptible amount of power or a change in behavior (see the ecu tunes, the throttle controllers, new brake pads, intakes, exhausts, you name it). Around a track, tires will probably make a bigger difference than all of these things combined and cost a fraction as much.
People bought the IS-F to be a great compromise between sound level, performance, handling, utility, etc...messing w/ the tires risks losing that fine balance that we all chose over the competitive balance offered by the M3 and RS4 and C63.
Sure, there may be some $800 tires that do everything just as well as the $1500 PS2s. But are you willing to live with a mistake for 20,000 miles (maybe 20-30% of the life of your F?) to save a few hundred bucks?
For me, I'm either going to go PS2 and guarantee my happiness w/ the tires or, if I decide at the time that I'd rather give away some ride and noise in an attempt (but no guarantee) to gain more grip, I might go w/ the RE11.
For me, the tires are the single biggest determinant of overall performance that I can change/control.
People on this website spend thousands and thousands of dollars modding $60,000 cars in hopes of gaining an imperceptible amount of power or a change in behavior (see the ecu tunes, the throttle controllers, new brake pads, intakes, exhausts, you name it). Around a track, tires will probably make a bigger difference than all of these things combined and cost a fraction as much.
People bought the IS-F to be a great compromise between sound level, performance, handling, utility, etc...messing w/ the tires risks losing that fine balance that we all chose over the competitive balance offered by the M3 and RS4 and C63.
Sure, there may be some $800 tires that do everything just as well as the $1500 PS2s. But are you willing to live with a mistake for 20,000 miles (maybe 20-30% of the life of your F?) to save a few hundred bucks?
For me, I'm either going to go PS2 and guarantee my happiness w/ the tires or, if I decide at the time that I'd rather give away some ride and noise in an attempt (but no guarantee) to gain more grip, I might go w/ the RE11.
12-30-09, 09:49 PM
#49
The PS2 sounds like a good choice for you, and I'm sure you'll be happy with them.
As for myself I still have not made up my mind as to size or manufacture, I know I have always had good luck with Toyo, Goodyear, and Michelin, so I am still doing my research and will make a decision when the time comes. As for now I only have 5600 miles on the Bridgestones with plenty of tread remaining.
As for myself I still have not made up my mind as to size or manufacture, I know I have always had good luck with Toyo, Goodyear, and Michelin, so I am still doing my research and will make a decision when the time comes. As for now I only have 5600 miles on the Bridgestones with plenty of tread remaining.
12-31-09, 05:53 AM
#50
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Well it seems everyone has their oppinion on a tire...It all depends on what you plan on using your car for and how much you really push its limits...
I think majority of the people on the forum don't push their car to its limits or on a track... So it would not matter if they went with PS2's or not.
Those that are head strong on performance and have the cash should deff. go with the PS2's that are ISF specific it makes the most sense, because lobux has proven that these tires are specific for the car.
Until someone can throw on some Kumho's and take it to the track to prove they are better the PS2's would be the winning decision.
FYI: My Toyo's feel much better with the 275's in the rear. Especially in wet acceleration.
I remember my Bridgestones would break lose easily when accelerating slightly hard in a straight line on wet pavement. These Toyo's hold the ground much better... still have only 100 miles on them though... so far great though!
I think majority of the people on the forum don't push their car to its limits or on a track... So it would not matter if they went with PS2's or not.
Those that are head strong on performance and have the cash should deff. go with the PS2's that are ISF specific it makes the most sense, because lobux has proven that these tires are specific for the car.
Until someone can throw on some Kumho's and take it to the track to prove they are better the PS2's would be the winning decision.
FYI: My Toyo's feel much better with the 275's in the rear. Especially in wet acceleration.
I remember my Bridgestones would break lose easily when accelerating slightly hard in a straight line on wet pavement. These Toyo's hold the ground much better... still have only 100 miles on them though... so far great though!
12-31-09, 09:11 AM
#51
I would venture to say that for 90% of us on this forum the difference in lap times that we could put down between PS2's, Toyo, Dunlop, etc. is a negligible. Now for a highly experienced driver like the pros we road with at the Lexus track events that is another story, tires to them will make a difference. For the rest of us what will make the biggest difference is experience.
I too am leaning toward the T1R's. I apoligize if I have already asked this but did you go with 245 F, and you said 275 R, and in the short time have you notice any rubbing?
I too am leaning toward the T1R's. I apoligize if I have already asked this but did you go with 245 F, and you said 275 R, and in the short time have you notice any rubbing?
Last edited by hwy1isf; 12-31-09 at 09:14 AM.
01-01-10, 03:49 PM
#53
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I would venture to say that for 90% of us on this forum the difference in lap times that we could put down between PS2's, Toyo, Dunlop, etc. is a negligible. Now for a highly experienced driver like the pros we road with at the Lexus track events that is another story, tires to them will make a difference. For the rest of us what will make the biggest difference is experience.
I too am leaning toward the T1R's. I apoligize if I have already asked this but did you go with 245 F, and you said 275 R, and in the short time have you notice any rubbing?
I too am leaning toward the T1R's. I apoligize if I have already asked this but did you go with 245 F, and you said 275 R, and in the short time have you notice any rubbing?
Yep. 245/35/19- Front and 275/30/19- Rear...
No rubbing yet... its also lowered at where the tires meet the fenders...
I'm going to raise it a bit for camber issues, but they work great!
01-03-10, 07:25 AM
#57
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I have had the 245/35 and 275/30 Vredesteins on my car for over 10,000 miles and do not have rubbing even at the track under hard cornering.
One word of caution to all. If your tire pressure monitor indicates a low tire check it immediately. In early December we had a cold weather spell and my TPM indicator said I had a low pressure tire. This had happened before and I just had slightly low pressure in one tire (32 psig). I ignored the TPM for about three days. When I got to work one day I was told that I had a flat tire on my left rear. Changed tire and took it to NTW for repair. When I went to pick up the tire they told me it was not repairable. They then showed me the inside of the tire where the rim had torn up the interior of the tire.
When driving to work that day there was no indication that the tire was anywhere that low. The car handled as normal, not what you would expect with a tire with ultra low pressure.
That was on the Monday right before I was going to a track weekend so I had a new tire flown in from California (Performance Tire).
Pat
One word of caution to all. If your tire pressure monitor indicates a low tire check it immediately. In early December we had a cold weather spell and my TPM indicator said I had a low pressure tire. This had happened before and I just had slightly low pressure in one tire (32 psig). I ignored the TPM for about three days. When I got to work one day I was told that I had a flat tire on my left rear. Changed tire and took it to NTW for repair. When I went to pick up the tire they told me it was not repairable. They then showed me the inside of the tire where the rim had torn up the interior of the tire.
When driving to work that day there was no indication that the tire was anywhere that low. The car handled as normal, not what you would expect with a tire with ultra low pressure.
That was on the Monday right before I was going to a track weekend so I had a new tire flown in from California (Performance Tire).
Pat
01-04-10, 05:34 PM
#58
I have had the 245/35 and 275/30 Vredesteins on my car for over 10,000 miles and do not have rubbing even at the track under hard cornering.
One word of caution to all. If your tire pressure monitor indicates a low tire check it immediately. In early December we had a cold weather spell and my TPM indicator said I had a low pressure tire. This had happened before and I just had slightly low pressure in one tire (32 psig). I ignored the TPM for about three days. When I got to work one day I was told that I had a flat tire on my left rear. Changed tire and took it to NTW for repair. When I went to pick up the tire they told me it was not repairable. They then showed me the inside of the tire where the rim had torn up the interior of the tire.
When driving to work that day there was no indication that the tire was anywhere that low. The car handled as normal, not what you would expect with a tire with ultra low pressure.
That was on the Monday right before I was going to a track weekend so I had a new tire flown in from California (Performance Tire).
Pat
One word of caution to all. If your tire pressure monitor indicates a low tire check it immediately. In early December we had a cold weather spell and my TPM indicator said I had a low pressure tire. This had happened before and I just had slightly low pressure in one tire (32 psig). I ignored the TPM for about three days. When I got to work one day I was told that I had a flat tire on my left rear. Changed tire and took it to NTW for repair. When I went to pick up the tire they told me it was not repairable. They then showed me the inside of the tire where the rim had torn up the interior of the tire.
When driving to work that day there was no indication that the tire was anywhere that low. The car handled as normal, not what you would expect with a tire with ultra low pressure.
That was on the Monday right before I was going to a track weekend so I had a new tire flown in from California (Performance Tire).
Pat
Are you running them on the stock wheels?
Thanks
01-04-10, 07:49 PM
#59
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Anyone tried RE-11s?
As the title asks... Reason for asking is my background's in autocross running an SSM turbo Honda S2000 on 285/30/18s front / 295/30/18s rear, and I see a TON of folks running RE-11s and Direzzas in the ST* classes...
Sooo looking at Tire Rack in 245/35/19s and 275/30/19s it looks like there's a fitment for RE-11s. :-) Anyone tried 'em yet in that size?
Also curious what people are seeing on IS-Fs alignment-wise. Please share what you've measured at stock ride height / from the factory, for example...
Front
Camber 1.2 deg negative
Caster 8 degrees
Toe .05" in
Rear
Camber 1.5 deg negative
Toe .15" in
Looks like a great car and I'm planning to pick up an '08 or '09 and stuff an OS Giken LSD in it (and leave the rest alone / just have fun on the street).
Thanks,
Stanford
Sooo looking at Tire Rack in 245/35/19s and 275/30/19s it looks like there's a fitment for RE-11s. :-) Anyone tried 'em yet in that size?
Also curious what people are seeing on IS-Fs alignment-wise. Please share what you've measured at stock ride height / from the factory, for example...
Front
Camber 1.2 deg negative
Caster 8 degrees
Toe .05" in
Rear
Camber 1.5 deg negative
Toe .15" in
Looks like a great car and I'm planning to pick up an '08 or '09 and stuff an OS Giken LSD in it (and leave the rest alone / just have fun on the street).
Thanks,
Stanford