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Old 12-28-09, 01:43 PM   #16
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I don't want to step out of line but I think he was talking about Tires, and I do concur with him. Inexpensive tires tend to have more issues, after few thousands miles, such as road noises, less grip, bald spot from parking overnight may cause steering wheel vibrations, longer stop distance and worst of all, for me at least, uneven wear before half-life (During "normal" driving condition).

I would be more at ease with good tires during spirited driving than with "average" shoes.

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Originally Posted by lowrideraz View Post
Wow - I'm really having trouble believing you, of all people, wrote this. Does that mean every part on our Fs, should only be replaced with stock? No modifications at all? How about brake pads? They are Brembo and were specifically designed for the F. What kind of brake pad do you run? I could go on, but I will leave it with that.

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Old 12-28-09, 02:04 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by avgj0F View Post
I don't want to step out of line but I think he was talking about Tires, and I do concur with him. Inexpensive tires tend to have more issues, after few thousands miles, such as road noises, less grip, bald spot from parking overnight may cause steering wheel vibrations, longer stop distance and worst of all, for me at least, uneven wear before half-life (During "normal" driving condition).

I would be more at ease with good tires during spirited driving than with "average" shoes.
Tires, Brake Pads, and etc. What's the difference? Both made by a third party and designed for the F. Inexpensive tires? Who said anything about inexpensive tires? I'm not recommending anyone go with a cheap tire. I certainly wont. As I said in my post (post #4) I will be going with Dunlop SP Sport Maxx TT. 245/35/19 in front and 275/30/19 in back. This is not a cheap tire, but Dunlop's top performance tire. Less expensive than the PS2s, but certainly not cheap. I have had extremely good luck with Dunlop Hi-Po tires in the past, and everything I have read about this new tire has been positive.

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Old 12-28-09, 02:37 PM   #18
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I'm truly loving my nitto invo's. I find them to be definitely worth it. I also love how the outer sidewall sits flush to the rim.
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Old 12-28-09, 03:55 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by LEXUSF View Post
I have the ps2 now and i love them! i will be staying with them on my stock rims just wider more on the lines u were thinking. i am doing the nt05 on some 18inch track wheels
Good choice... I drive my car a lot so I wanted to go with the most economical choice... Something thats close to my Bridgestones but not spend a ton of money.


I was looking into the PS2s because everyone here says they are great. As well as everyone else I spoke with.

I don't think I'll be disappointed with the T1R's... I don't really push my car to the limits anyway... I'm more of a conservative driver....

Cause damn I'm at 28,8xx and still have my original brake pads =)
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Old 12-28-09, 08:59 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by lowrideraz View Post
Tires, Brake Pads, and etc. What's the difference? Both made by a third party and designed for the F. Inexpensive tires? Who said anything about inexpensive tires? I'm not recommending anyone go with a cheap tire. I certainly wont. As I said in my post (post #4) I will be going with Dunlop SP Sport Maxx TT. 245/35/19 in front and 275/30/19 in back. This is not a cheap tire, but Dunlop's top performance tire. Less expensive than the PS2s, but certainly not cheap. I have had extremely good luck with Dunlop Hi-Po tires in the past, and everything I have read about this new tire has been positive.

Lou
Good choice and I agree with your choice of tire.The Sport MAXX will work, just fine and you'll have all the grip and performance at a valued price. Thanks for mentioning that there are excellent alternative replacement parts, not only tires, and not limited to brakes, intake, exhaust, rims, drive lights....etc!!!!
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Old 12-28-09, 11:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrideraz View Post
Wow - I'm really having trouble believing you, of all people, wrote this. Does that mean every part on our Fs, should only be replaced with stock? No modifications at all? How about brake pads? They are Brembo and were specifically designed for the F. What kind of brake pad do you run? I could go on, but I will leave it with that.

Lou
Tires are special. Only the Bridgestones and the Michelins have been optimized for the F. When the Supra came out it had Michelin Pilot MXX3s specifically made for it. It pulled 0.98g on a 300 ft skidpad with those tires on a hard top model. At the time the only thing coming close BAR NONE was the Mazda RX-7.

Brakes are about feel. Tires are the one thing affecting a car's performance more than any other single item. Good tires will be good performers. Great tires will kick the snot out of everything else. A tire optimized by the factory to produce superior performance will be VERY difficult to beat with anything aftermarket.

When I raced motorcycles I had a chat with the guy running the tire truck. He said he had a tire measurably faster (1.5 - 2 seconds a lap) costing $10 more than what all the mid-pack guys were running. They'd spend thousands on building the bike, a grand on getting the bike to the track, hotel for the weekend, entry fees, etc...and then they'd cheap out on the tires by $10 and run 2 seconds off the pace all weekend.

My next set of tires will be the IS-F specific PS2s. I drove them at Atlanta Motor Speedway during the Lexus Driving Academy. I believe they're measurably better than anything else available if lap times are important to you. If lap times are not important, buy whatever you like for whatever reason you'd like to choose, but you won't out-perform the PS2s on a closed course with anything else short of competition tires.
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Old 12-29-09, 02:06 AM   #22
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Hey lobuxracer. I urge you and anyone suggesting lower priced tires won't stack up to the higher priced tires (ps2's) to check out the Hankook Ventus V12 in this article. Especially where they say "Their fourth-place autocross time wasn’t spectacular, but they did outlap the benchmark Michelin PS2s." That would be better performing, and also tying for quietest in the street loop means comfortable. Not to mention the 280 tread wear rating is great. And the price for a set of 245/35/19 and 275/30/19 is $756.88 shipped from the tire rack, What a deal! I have Yokohama S.drives which came in at #6 in the comparison and enjoy them but will check out the Hankooks next tire change. Here is the link http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
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Old 12-29-09, 06:45 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by lobuxracer View Post
Tires are special.
Brakes are about feel.

Tires are the one thing affecting a car's performance more than any other single item. Good tires will be good performers. Great tires will kick the snot out of everything else. A tire optimized by the factory to produce superior performance will be VERY difficult to beat with anything aftermarket.

My next set of tires will be the IS-F specific PS2s.
Brakes are a lot more than feel. They're also about fade, wear, dusting, wear on rotor, agressivness and etc. A pad that will let you brake earlier without lockup, glazing or overheating will let you increase your lap times. I agree with you on good vs great tires, but, as I have said, I have read nothing but good things about the Dunlops. But, they are new to the marketplace and not included in many tests. I would love to see a comparison test between the PS2 and the Sport Maxx TT on the F. On paper they look pretty equal to me. Here are two Tire Rack Tests, each containing different Hi-Po Tires, the only common tire used on both tests was the Continental ContiSportContact 3. In the tests the Continental was beaten by either the PS2 or the Dunlop.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...%3D73YR9SMTTXL

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=101

I guess my point is, there are alternatives, and IMHO, the PS2 while being a great tire, may or may not be the best overall choice for the F. But, again, IMHO, the F is undertired and should have come with wider tires, both front and rear.

If you're comfortable with the the PS2, stick with it, I'm sure you'll be extremely happy. But me, I want a wider tire, and from my past experience with Dunlop and from the information I've gleaned I will be going with the Sport Maxx TT in wider fitments than stock. Will I make the right choice, I don't really know, but my gut tells me, Yes. Just as a point of interest, when it's time to replace my brake pads, I will be going with Ferodos. Again, from past experience.

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Old 12-29-09, 10:03 AM   #24
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so out of all this what is the best tire to run on the f? and what size?
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Old 12-29-09, 10:17 AM   #25
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^^^^. Depends upon what you're lookin' for, how much you're willin' to pay, and who you ask

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Old 12-29-09, 05:34 PM   #26
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Well I just got my Toyo's on... It will take sometime to break them in until I can really test the traction...

But right out of the gate the rear end was breaking lose more easily than my Bridgestones... But I'll give it about a 500 mile break in before I really start expect feeling a difference...
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Old 12-29-09, 05:43 PM   #27
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Well I just got my Toyo's on... It will take sometime to break them in until I can really test the traction...

But right out of the gate the rear end was breaking lose more easily than my Bridgestones... But I'll give it about a 500 mile break in before I really start expect feeling a difference...
every review of the Hankook Ventus V12 said to break em in first, because they are sloppy brand spankin new... so yeah, give em' a good 500 miles and report back!
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Old 12-29-09, 05:56 PM   #28
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so out of all this what is the best tire to run on the f? and what size?
The OEM reccomended tires and size are the BEST for the F. PS2's or RE050's and maybe the RE11's.

I have had my fair share of cheap tires on my F and wouldn't reccomend installaing anything else other than the PS2's or RE's.
I reccomend not going with cheap tires (sidewall tends to be too soft) and also tires that are directional. Directional tires tend to cause tire pull especially on our cars.

I am going to be going with PS2's. RE050's or RE11's when I am due.
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Old 12-29-09, 06:26 PM   #29
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Brakes are a lot more than feel. They're also about fade, wear, dusting, wear on rotor, agressivness and etc. A pad that will let you brake earlier without lockup, glazing or overheating will let you increase your lap times. I agree with you on good vs great tires, but, as I have said, I have read nothing but good things about the Dunlops. But, they are new to the marketplace and not included in many tests. I would love to see a comparison test between the PS2 and the Sport Maxx TT on the F. On paper they look pretty equal to me. Here are two Tire Rack Tests, each containing different Hi-Po Tires, the only common tire used on both tests was the Continental ContiSportContact 3. In the tests the Continental was beaten by either the PS2 or the Dunlop.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...%3D73YR9SMTTXL

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=101

I guess my point is, there are alternatives, and IMHO, the PS2 while being a great tire, may or may not be the best overall choice for the F. But, again, IMHO, the F is undertired and should have come with wider tires, both front and rear.

If you're comfortable with the the PS2, stick with it, I'm sure you'll be extremely happy. But me, I want a wider tire, and from my past experience with Dunlop and from the information I've gleaned I will be going with the Sport Maxx TT in wider fitments than stock. Will I make the right choice, I don't really know, but my gut tells me, Yes. Just as a point of interest, when it's time to replace my brake pads, I will be going with Ferodos. Again, from past experience.

Lou
Brakes are all about feel. Pads will not make your lap times lower (increase? no, don't want that for sure..) and if I have to brake earlier there's something wrong. I want to brake as late as possible for best lap times. Sure, if you buy the wrong pads and they glaze you're screwed. But if the compound is in its sweet spot for operating temperature, then it really is all about how it feels to you and your ability to judge impending lockup successfully with a minimum of mental effort. Driving fast all comes down to mental effort and how much attention you need to complete a given driving task. The more attention something takes, the harder it is to focus on the three most important elements - course, heading, and traction.

Same is true for tires. Here's the problem no one seems to understand - if I compare the "standard" PS2 to the Kumho, Toyo, Dunlop, or Nitto, I'm making a fair comparison. If I compare the Lexus specific PS2 (or Bridgestone for that matter) ON THE IS-F, it is NOT fair at all because these tires have been tweaked to work BETTER on the IS-F. If you do a little research you'll also see you pay more for Lexus specific tires.

Tire tests are pretty meaningless in the real world unless you own the car the testers used for their comparison. Saying XYZ tires worked best on our test 328i doesn't mean beans about how it will work on a Honda Civic or a CTS-V Cadillac, so buying XYZ tires for your Honda or Caddy based on those test results is absolutely foolish.

Going to the Tire Rack and looking at their comparison tests, you'll almost always see them using a BMW 3 series sedan. We don't own one of these. The tires winning this comparison on a different car means little to nothing for an IS owner. The comparisons themselves are typically flawed because they don't even tune the tire pressures for optimum performance on each tire brand. They run the recommended OEM pressure because that's what the majority of owners will do.

Remember, tire pressure determines the tire's spring rate. It acts in combination with the suspension's spring rate, so adjusting the air +/-3 psi can make a HUGE difference in performance. But these tests are difficult enough to complete in a reasonable time without adding the possibility of actually optimizing tire pressures for each model tested on the day and time the test is being completed.

At the end of the day, I'll take a tire specifically made for the car over a generic tire simply because I know the customized model will almost invariably outperform the generic tire with a minimum of fuss and experimentation. It doesn't mean the car won't drive better with a different setup, it just means it's going to work very well with the least amount of grief on the model specific tires.

I've said before, I'd really like to see the IS-F on 315s all the way around. I think it would really emphasize the chassis work Lexus did when I'm out on the track. But Lexus has to build a car for the masses, so it needs to be on tires it can use in rain, light snow, AND dry pavement of all kinds. So we get narrower tires than would be ideal for a track only car. When you say, "I'm getting wider XYZ tires than the OEM tires because it will perform better", you're really saying "I'm HOPING I get better performance because XYZ has a good reputation and I'm planning to try to optimize my results by changing the OEM set up." As long as you never compete against a watch on a closed course, you can honestly say one feels better than the other. When you pull out the watch and start cutting some lap times, you'll find truth about feel and how wrong it can be.

There are so many variables affected by tire selection, it would take an entire tome to cover the subject. Something as simple as a small change in rolling diameter affects ride height, roll center, scrub radius, roll couple, roll axis, center of gravity...and you thought you just needed a bigger tire...it might all work out well. It might work out like crap. Crap is the more common result. It's hard to get it right and easy to screw it up.

That's a lot of why I say you'll be hard pressed to beat the PS2s.
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Old 12-29-09, 09:07 PM   #30
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Well I just got my Toyo's on... It will take sometime to break them in until I can really test the traction...

But right out of the gate the rear end was breaking lose more easily than my Bridgestones... But I'll give it about a 500 mile break in before I really start expect feeling a difference...
I too am looking at the T1R's, what size did you go with, and what did you pay for the set?
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Old 12-29-09, 09:07 PM
 
 
 
 
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