Opinion: Why to get an IS-F vs. E92 M3
10-05-09, 11:33 PM
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Opinion: Why to get an IS-F vs. E92 M3
Hi All,
I'm new to this forum and wanted to get some solid opinions on the Lexus IS-F. I'm debating between an E92 M3 or a 2010 IS-F.
I've driven a handful of E92 M3's and one 09' IS-F. Ever since I drove the IS-F, I always seem to find myself on this forum and looking for parts for an IS-F, not an M3.
I'd like to know what Is-F owners love and hate about the IS-F.
Here's some of my past/current projects:
05' BMW 330Ci ZHP...S/C'd
07' Subaru STI-
I'm new to this forum and wanted to get some solid opinions on the Lexus IS-F. I'm debating between an E92 M3 or a 2010 IS-F.
I've driven a handful of E92 M3's and one 09' IS-F. Ever since I drove the IS-F, I always seem to find myself on this forum and looking for parts for an IS-F, not an M3.
I'd like to know what Is-F owners love and hate about the IS-F.
Here's some of my past/current projects:
05' BMW 330Ci ZHP...S/C'd
07' Subaru STI-
10-06-09, 01:47 AM
#2
you're in the same boat as i was in... and i'm guessing like so many other IS-F owners. to buy the ISF and not even consider the M3, RS4, C32, etc would probably be consider a fanboy move.
but for me, here's how it went...
BMW m3: there were no sedans, so i drove the coupe. loved it. saw the sedan on the road later, didn't like it so much. but i wanted the "gold standard" and priced it out at many dealerships.
ISF was an accident. i received a $75 test drive offer from someone in my family. used it to drive the F, and was totally blown away - mostly because i wasn't expecting the performance from a lexus.
so the second most important factor to me was reliability. look, i'm not a race car driver. i work, am married, will have kids, etc. i'm 27 with better things to do than to run around like fast and furious - but at the same time am not trying to look slow and curious.
in the end, it came down to money. final price difference was over $15k between the M3 and ISF. the base M3 comes without leather and a spare tire. i mean really... how can a car be a daily driver without a spare tire? i don't care what people/dealers say, german cars are expensive after options.
regardless, i doubt you'll be unhappy with any of those options. bmw was giving a $7500 discount on their left over 08's last year. maybe the auto makers will do again this year, but good luck on finding that many 09 ISF's compared to leftover M3's...
but for me, here's how it went...
BMW m3: there were no sedans, so i drove the coupe. loved it. saw the sedan on the road later, didn't like it so much. but i wanted the "gold standard" and priced it out at many dealerships.
ISF was an accident. i received a $75 test drive offer from someone in my family. used it to drive the F, and was totally blown away - mostly because i wasn't expecting the performance from a lexus.
so the second most important factor to me was reliability. look, i'm not a race car driver. i work, am married, will have kids, etc. i'm 27 with better things to do than to run around like fast and furious - but at the same time am not trying to look slow and curious.
in the end, it came down to money. final price difference was over $15k between the M3 and ISF. the base M3 comes without leather and a spare tire. i mean really... how can a car be a daily driver without a spare tire? i don't care what people/dealers say, german cars are expensive after options.
regardless, i doubt you'll be unhappy with any of those options. bmw was giving a $7500 discount on their left over 08's last year. maybe the auto makers will do again this year, but good luck on finding that many 09 ISF's compared to leftover M3's...
Last edited by malujerry; 10-06-09 at 08:42 AM.
10-06-09, 08:28 AM
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I looked at all and for me one of the big factors was reliability and rarity I wanted a car that not everyone had and I have still never pulled up next to another IS F. People all the time ask me what it is vs everyone knows what an M3 is. I have really no complaints on my choice I work in the car business and have driven everything still love getting in mine everyday.
10-06-09, 09:22 AM
#4
comparably equipped, the M3 is like 25% more expensive. I just didn't see the value. I also know several people with nightmare experiences with BMW reliability (and those who have been trouble free). For a DD, I just didn't want to EVER bring it in for warranty work, much less several times, or once a month for the rest of my life.
Knowing that Lexus detuned the engine to ensure it would last 200k miles, that the tranny was engineered to take like 600 hp, and that it was built by Lexus gave me confidence that I wouldn't be mad at myself 6 months in.
There have also been reports in the long term tests in the car rags that claimed the m3 felt "tired" at 30k miles, and the IS-F felt brand new. Subjective, but interesting.
The IS-F isn't the fastest around a track, but in real world driving it is just as fast, IMO more comfortable, IMo better looking, and infinitely more rare and reliable.
Oh yeah, and it wasn't really a consideration of mine, but the free maintenance of the
M3 is COMPLETELY offset by getting crappy mileage. I get 21 in my F in mixed driving.
Knowing that Lexus detuned the engine to ensure it would last 200k miles, that the tranny was engineered to take like 600 hp, and that it was built by Lexus gave me confidence that I wouldn't be mad at myself 6 months in.
There have also been reports in the long term tests in the car rags that claimed the m3 felt "tired" at 30k miles, and the IS-F felt brand new. Subjective, but interesting.
The IS-F isn't the fastest around a track, but in real world driving it is just as fast, IMO more comfortable, IMo better looking, and infinitely more rare and reliable.
Oh yeah, and it wasn't really a consideration of mine, but the free maintenance of the
M3 is COMPLETELY offset by getting crappy mileage. I get 21 in my F in mixed driving.
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10-06-09, 10:30 AM
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When i test drove an IS F for the first time, i thought that it sounded awesome. Some people say that it makes the F sound a little faster than it actually is but i don't really care, how many of us actually regularly take the car past break neck speeds on the daily anyway?
As a daily driver, i find the car to be excellent. It is reliable, comfortable (enough) and to me, it looks great, on the move and even stationary.
In my opinion, track times and speed prove that one car is better than the other at certain things, but on the highway, you'd be hard pressed to make turns that would even trouble half your electronic stability systems.
My advice is go with what you feel comfy with both cars are good. Except to me, I think the IS F at its first go has made a group of people in Germany take notice.
p.s. i was having supper with my best buddy and he took me in his m3, m-mode et al
it was great, but the sound .. well just wasnt feelin it!
As a daily driver, i find the car to be excellent. It is reliable, comfortable (enough) and to me, it looks great, on the move and even stationary.
In my opinion, track times and speed prove that one car is better than the other at certain things, but on the highway, you'd be hard pressed to make turns that would even trouble half your electronic stability systems.
My advice is go with what you feel comfy with both cars are good. Except to me, I think the IS F at its first go has made a group of people in Germany take notice.
p.s. i was having supper with my best buddy and he took me in his m3, m-mode et al
it was great, but the sound .. well just wasnt feelin it!
10-06-09, 11:08 AM
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you're in the same boat as i was in... and i'm guessing like so many other IS-F owners. to buy the ISF and not even consider the M3, RS4, C32, etc would probably be consider a fanboy move.
but for me, here's how it went...
BMW m3: there were no sedans, so i drove the coupe. loved it. saw the sedan on the road later, didn't like it so much. but i wanted the "gold standard" and priced it out at many dealerships.
ISF was an accident. i received a $75 test drive offer from someone in my family. used it to drive the F, and was totally blown away - mostly because i wasn't expecting the performance from a lexus.
so the second most important factor to me was reliability. look, i'm not a race car driver. i work, am married, will have kids, etc. i'm 27 with better things to do than to run around like fast and furious - but at the same time am not trying to look slow and curious.
in the end, it came down to money. final price difference was over $15k between the M3 and ISF. the base M3 comes without leather and a spare tire. i mean really... how can a car be a daily driver without a spare tire? i don't care what people/dealers say, german cars are expensive after options.
regardless, i doubt you'll be unhappy with any of those options. bmw was giving a $7500 discount on their left over 08's last year. maybe the auto makers will do again this year, but good luck on finding that many 09 ISF's compared to leftover M3's...
but for me, here's how it went...
BMW m3: there were no sedans, so i drove the coupe. loved it. saw the sedan on the road later, didn't like it so much. but i wanted the "gold standard" and priced it out at many dealerships.
ISF was an accident. i received a $75 test drive offer from someone in my family. used it to drive the F, and was totally blown away - mostly because i wasn't expecting the performance from a lexus.
so the second most important factor to me was reliability. look, i'm not a race car driver. i work, am married, will have kids, etc. i'm 27 with better things to do than to run around like fast and furious - but at the same time am not trying to look slow and curious.
in the end, it came down to money. final price difference was over $15k between the M3 and ISF. the base M3 comes without leather and a spare tire. i mean really... how can a car be a daily driver without a spare tire? i don't care what people/dealers say, german cars are expensive after options.
regardless, i doubt you'll be unhappy with any of those options. bmw was giving a $7500 discount on their left over 08's last year. maybe the auto makers will do again this year, but good luck on finding that many 09 ISF's compared to leftover M3's...
The IS F tranny is a dream, much better than the M3 DCT, which reviewers said it felt tired and loose after only a couple thousand miles, whereas the IS F was still as tight as the day it rolled off the dealer lot. The only drawback you might find in the IS-F vs. M3 debate is that the IS-F is not offered with a manual transmission but in all honesty, you'll be convinced that you don't need a stickshift and an extra pedal to have some fun in this beast. The DSS in the IS-F definitely isn't boring.
10-06-09, 11:29 AM
#7
it comes down to how you feel behind the wheel. you've checked out the CL forum, and prolly the bimmer forums as well. its not based on anyone else's opinion but your own. the m3 has some superior qualities such as its pedigree in racing and r&d for its engine, but the F has the luxury and reliability factor. i might add that lexus' first attempt at a high performance car is as great as any manufacturer can create. sure bmw has something that has performed well year after year, but consider maintenance costs (beyond the 5 year period)...the lexus will barely cost you anything out of pocket except maybe some oil quarts for oil changes. ive driven both, and i still prefer the F, not because I own one or because i'm a member of this forum--but because i LOVE the F!! it fulfills my every desire in an HP vehicle. the speed, the luxury, the attention. and though bmw says it has great luxury inside its vehicles, u'll see for yourself- its no comparison to lexus. but this is just my opinion, and you'll probably get a more well rounded perspective from lexus owners cuz we tend to be more open and less subjugated compared to the bimmer forum participants. in the end, choose the car the best fit your qualities and needs, and go from there.
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10-06-09, 11:35 AM
#8
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I was in a similar situation. There were many factors but the mail two left me asking myself...
1- Why would i choose a slower car
2- Why would i choose a slower car that is less reliable
At the end of the day its going to come down to personal preference. Though Ive herd stories that the "Personal Preference" of M3 drivers tend to change when they meet an ISF on the highway.
Great Looking Cars BTW..
1- Why would i choose a slower car
2- Why would i choose a slower car that is less reliable
At the end of the day its going to come down to personal preference. Though Ive herd stories that the "Personal Preference" of M3 drivers tend to change when they meet an ISF on the highway.
Great Looking Cars BTW..
Last edited by MRxSLAYx; 10-06-09 at 11:45 AM.
10-06-09, 12:58 PM
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Wow, so many informative posts, thank you everyone, I appreciate it 
My only real concerns are based around the fact that the car isn't a manual and I have no idea what the warranty is really like.
I've only ever owned manual transmission cars, so I guess I'm a littler nervous to leave them, lol- The transmission on the IS-F is simply amazing, from what I got to see/feel, I'm just wondering if I'll get bored of it. Rowing gears can be fun, or seriously the worst part of your day ie: 405, 91, etc-
The next area I'd like some info on is the warranty, is wear and tear covered in any shape or form?
I ask this specifically because of some of the issues I had with my 330 and the factory alcantara wheel. Over the first 2 years, the wheel faded and thinned heavily, and took me endless amounts of complaining to finally get a new one in early 2009, I bought the car in 2005, lol-
I'm very interested in seeing reviews on how the 2010 model does, with the addition of an LSD.
Lastly, after-market support, I'd like to know where it is? There's a handful of parts, but I'm not seeing anything near what's out for the M3. I've researched all over and just can't seem to find near as much as other cars. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the exclusivity of the car or?
Thank you again everyone for all the help, I appreciate it!
-Chris
My only real concerns are based around the fact that the car isn't a manual and I have no idea what the warranty is really like.
I've only ever owned manual transmission cars, so I guess I'm a littler nervous to leave them, lol- The transmission on the IS-F is simply amazing, from what I got to see/feel, I'm just wondering if I'll get bored of it. Rowing gears can be fun, or seriously the worst part of your day ie: 405, 91, etc-
The next area I'd like some info on is the warranty, is wear and tear covered in any shape or form?
I ask this specifically because of some of the issues I had with my 330 and the factory alcantara wheel. Over the first 2 years, the wheel faded and thinned heavily, and took me endless amounts of complaining to finally get a new one in early 2009, I bought the car in 2005, lol-
I'm very interested in seeing reviews on how the 2010 model does, with the addition of an LSD.
Lastly, after-market support, I'd like to know where it is? There's a handful of parts, but I'm not seeing anything near what's out for the M3. I've researched all over and just can't seem to find near as much as other cars. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the exclusivity of the car or?
Thank you again everyone for all the help, I appreciate it!
-Chris
10-06-09, 01:30 PM
#11
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Great feedback from everyone...most of which I agree with.
For some of you that don't frequent other forums....you should see what this conversation looks like elsewhere.
Funniest thing I've read on here in a while...lol.
Rowing gears can be fun. But not in traffic if you do a lot of city driving.....and not when you miss a shift and are now getting bus lengths pulled on you....something that will never happen in the F.
The paddles are plenty engaging when you want to push it....and plenty benign when you just want to cruise and daydream.
For some of you that don't frequent other forums....you should see what this conversation looks like elsewhere.I've only ever owned manual transmission cars, so I guess I'm a littler nervous to leave them, lol- The transmission on the IS-F is simply amazing, from what I got to see/feel, I'm just wondering if I'll get bored of it. Rowing gears can be fun, or seriously the worst part of your day ie: 405, 91, etc-
The paddles are plenty engaging when you want to push it....and plenty benign when you just want to cruise and daydream.
10-06-09, 01:43 PM
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I have read many tests of the IS-F and M3 and so far the best/most objective i have seen was from the German magazine SportAuto (if you know some German i advise you to visit their site, www.sportauto-online.de)
It is a very balanced and professionally-written article that covers all aspects of what those cars are really about: speed, braking, handling and aerodynamics (they even do a windtunnel test!).
The magazine tests the cars on 2 racetracks and gives a detailed report of the results. Those are the guys who actually set the top official time for the M3 (and many other cars) on the Nürburgring, so they are no amateurs. They were very pleased with the IS-F and although it didn't match the times of the (coupé) M3 on the Nürburgring (Nordschleife) and Hockenheim they also pointed out the IS-F had normal Michelin Pilot Sport tires while the M3 ran on the much more track-oriented Michelin Pilot Sport cup tires. This is something most M3 lovers and IS-F bashers forget if they compare the Ring times of both cars.
The authors of the article were pretty confident the IS-F would match or come very close to the M3's times if it had the cup's and a LSD, and the latter is now standard on the 2010 model! One aspect in which the IS-F actually bested both the M3 and C63 was braking, with a measured max of 11.8 m/s2.
I see you are a bit worried about the IS-F not having a manual, but even these motorsport freaks said it is an awesome piece of kit, especially in manual mode. It is not a setback but a plus to have it. The main 'problem' with the IS-F is its harsh ride, at least compared to the M3 which has an option for an adaptive suspension, but only a testdrive can answer the question if you think it is acceptable or not.
The big advantage of the IS-F is its price. If you take a fully loaded IS-F and compare it to an M3 (or c63 AMG) with the same equipment the difference is striking: almost $ 20.000 ! So to come to a conclusion i think you can say the IS-F is a (close) match to the M3 on a track, lacks a bit comfort, but makes all up for that with its price and service. Last but not least: the IS-F is likely to be much more exclusive.
It is all up to you now
link to the article: http://www.sportauto-online.de/super...g-1041495.html
p.s. dont let the pic of the Nissan GT-R fool you, the article really is about the IS-F, click on 'Wertungen' to see the test results.
It is a very balanced and professionally-written article that covers all aspects of what those cars are really about: speed, braking, handling and aerodynamics (they even do a windtunnel test!).
The magazine tests the cars on 2 racetracks and gives a detailed report of the results. Those are the guys who actually set the top official time for the M3 (and many other cars) on the Nürburgring, so they are no amateurs. They were very pleased with the IS-F and although it didn't match the times of the (coupé) M3 on the Nürburgring (Nordschleife) and Hockenheim they also pointed out the IS-F had normal Michelin Pilot Sport tires while the M3 ran on the much more track-oriented Michelin Pilot Sport cup tires. This is something most M3 lovers and IS-F bashers forget if they compare the Ring times of both cars.
The authors of the article were pretty confident the IS-F would match or come very close to the M3's times if it had the cup's and a LSD, and the latter is now standard on the 2010 model! One aspect in which the IS-F actually bested both the M3 and C63 was braking, with a measured max of 11.8 m/s2.
I see you are a bit worried about the IS-F not having a manual, but even these motorsport freaks said it is an awesome piece of kit, especially in manual mode. It is not a setback but a plus to have it. The main 'problem' with the IS-F is its harsh ride, at least compared to the M3 which has an option for an adaptive suspension, but only a testdrive can answer the question if you think it is acceptable or not.
The big advantage of the IS-F is its price. If you take a fully loaded IS-F and compare it to an M3 (or c63 AMG) with the same equipment the difference is striking: almost $ 20.000 ! So to come to a conclusion i think you can say the IS-F is a (close) match to the M3 on a track, lacks a bit comfort, but makes all up for that with its price and service. Last but not least: the IS-F is likely to be much more exclusive.
It is all up to you now
link to the article: http://www.sportauto-online.de/super...g-1041495.html
p.s. dont let the pic of the Nissan GT-R fool you, the article really is about the IS-F, click on 'Wertungen' to see the test results.
Last edited by DeTomaso; 10-06-09 at 03:21 PM.
10-06-09, 06:09 PM
#15
I'm obviously a little out of place in the F forums, but I can pitch in as to the Lexus warranty. Lexus' bumper to bumper warranty will pretty much cover everything unless you did something to hurt it or is just expected to be done (brakes, oil...). Lexus has replaced my battery and my headlight lenses and both were wear and tear and they did so without question. I also have a friend whose brakes wore prematurely, normally a wear and tear item at 10,000 miles but Lexus replaced pads and rotors for free. The best think is when they replaced my amp and headunit in the RX at 55,000 miles (5k and a few months out of warranty). These two were not abused per say but I've done countless miles on dirt roads that could have led to my problem. Without a blink they replaced them and provided a loaner.
Warranty and customer service is what Lexus is known for. I'm 99% sure they would've replaced your alcantra steering wheel.
Warranty and customer service is what Lexus is known for. I'm 99% sure they would've replaced your alcantra steering wheel.