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So after LOTS of thinking and numerous 2013-2014 ISFs I considered, three of which I had put deposits on, I decided I just couldn't part with driving a manual or buying a used car. So many of these ISFs I was looking at had minor blemishes, some had been wrecked, and others had questionable histories. It's hard for me to hang my hat on a used car considering that I was going to be spending $49-52K on one of these cars. If it was a $30K car, I wouldn't think twice. $49K+? Ehhhhh....
Last weekend I ended up test driving a BMW M235 which is a car I had been eyeballing for a year. I feel in love. It's so connected, pretty dang quick, refined, amazing seats and great overall feel. It comes standard with adaptive suspension and a host of other things that I couldn't get on the ISF. The ISF is definitely the faster/quicker car in stock form. Handling is about the same. Oddly, rear legroom is about the same too.
I drove the 8 speed auto because none of the dealers stock 6MTs. The 8 speed is wicked. It's truly an amazing auto. It has lightning quick up and downshifts, dare I say quicker than the ISF's. In automatic "Sport/Sport+" mode, it's telepathic in selecting the right gears while under braking and G-loads. With the paddle shifters, you can grab a 3 gear downshift almost instantly.
The seats are amazing. Fully adjustable including lateral and thigh support. This is the only car I've driven that the steering wheel can get too close to me at full extension. It will be great for hand/arm placement in auto-x and the like.
Most importantly, there is plenty of room in the back for the kids. I'm a bit over 6' 1" and have a 34" inseam. I set the driver's seat where I needed then climbed behind it. It was tight for me, but I could ride back there across town no problem. My head was on the ceiling, but there will be another 1.5" with the moonroof delete. My 4 foot tall, 50lb daughter will have no issues sitting behind me. My 11 y/o 5 foot tall son wouldn't either. I'm really amazed by how roomy the car is on the inside considering it's subcompact exterior size.
After thinking and thinking about it, I decided I still want the 6MT even though it's the slower car. I'm not nearly has concerned about speed anymore as I am the driving involvement and per reviews, the 6MT is one of the better ones BMW has done in recent years. My future Cayman (~5 years from now) will be a PDK therefore I didn't want a garage full of autos.
I've ordered the following M235i:
- Mineral white
- Rear wheel drive
- Coral Dakota Red leather
- Cold Weather Package (heated seats, headlight washers, heated steering wheel)
- Driver Assistance Package (parking sensors and rear camera and assist features)
- Harman Kardon stereo
- 6 speed
- Moonroof delete
It should be here in 8 to 12 weeks. Overall, I've saved about $3K-$4K going with the new M235 vs a 2013-2014 ISF.
The German reliability factor does scare me a bit. Luckily the N55 turbo motor is fairly reliable, the transmission is solid, and the suspension and brakes are simple and easy to work on. My M235 isn't loaded with tech so that should help reduce long term cost potential. I hope....
What did I just read? Lol have fun with your cute little clown car.
haha.. this F is now listed for 52k ( I know you already bought a BMW) but this thread has been entertaining.
That's funny.
Most people forget sometimes how much a dealer can put into their used cars once they buy them from auction.
They get a check out, sometimes brakes and other minor related maintenance. They almost always get an oil change and of course a detail. Depending on the dealer that can be $1k or more worth of work.
I owned a BMW once. Reliability nightmare. Felt like it was in the shop more than it was in my garage. There was always something wrong with it, even it if it was minor, which was annoying. Never again will I make the same mistake....Next time I might lease it, drive the **** outta it and return it haha
Yeah this whole discussion was annoying. I cant believe i wasted all the time in that tread.
I have never owned a bimmer, my wife's family has and i have never been impressed with them always breaking and the interior quality is **** after a few years. The 3 Series seats were uncomfortable as ****..
Didn't feel like waiting a year to get one, having to paying MSRP (or more) for the car, paying about $7,000 more than what I paid for the M235, didn't want to pay the "M" markup on maintenance, wasn't comfortable with owning a BMW (especially an M) with a new engine design, and didn't want to deal with the M rawness. I already had enough of that with the WRX. I wanted 80% of the M thus the M235 fit in well. A $300 Stage 1 piggyback tune will get my M235 to within a fractions of a second of what the M2 will do in the straight line. The M235 starts out with around 310whp/320wtq and a Stage 1 tune puts it in the 350whp/370wtq range. Not bad for a 3,400lb car.
The 3 Series seats were uncomfortable as ****..
LOL. Go sit in an M235 and report back. Make sure to take advantage of the thigh bolster extenders, power adjustable side bolstering, and 3 way lumbar.
I owned a BMW once. Reliability nightmare. Felt like it was in the shop more than it was in my garage. There was always something wrong with it, even it if it was minor, which was annoying. Never again will I make the same mistake.
I get what you're saying and I didn't take this purchase lightly. I've only owned Japanese cars for the past 20 years. This is my first German car and I understand the reliability concerns, especially with electronics. The thing is, the car has been out for two years and even Consumer Reports states that the thing is reliable. The twin-scroll single turbo N55 motor is pretty dang reliable in comparison to the prior N54 twin turbo and it's FAR less complex. Additionally, it's a 2 series thus it has far less electronic wizardry, it has a simple suspension arrangement, and overall, parts are generally cheap and easy to replace. The car comes with a 4 year/50K bumper to bumper ALL MAINTENANCE warranty. If the car is a dud after 4 years, I'll dump it. I'm a DIY guy, I'm not scared.
As a avid car guy, I felt like I needed to own at least one German car, so why not buy the most well-reviewed BMW in the last 20 years or so?
What's really funny is that the dealers that had the ISFs I was looking at still have them except for that POS Chicago Lexus dealer. They apparently sold that car at auction and now it's sitting at another dealer in Florida LOL These cars, for whatever reason, don't sell well at all. Keep that in mind when the dealers try and feed you a line of BS about how they're so hard to keep on the lot and command a premium.
Yeah, just a bunch of silly whining and many of those things are insignificant. Complaining about mirror cover color and that the LED signal mirrors might catch your eye? Really? It must have taken you quite some time to find one of few average reviews of the M235. Everything else is praise.
Look, I totally love the ISF. It's a one hell of a wickedly fast and reliable machine and I may still pick one up later on down the road if the M235 turns out to be POS. For now, I wanted a car with a Man Pedal, large aftermarket support, and one that is more suited to auto-x. The ISF is definitely not that car.
What's really funny is that the dealers that had the ISFs I was looking at still have them except for that POS Chicago Lexus dealer. They apparently sold that car at auction and now it's sitting at another dealer in Florida LOL These cars, for whatever reason, don't sell well at all. Keep that in mind when the dealers try and feed you a line of BS about how they're so hard to keep on the lot and command a premium.
Again GL with your BMW I'm sure you will be pleased with it once you take ownership. I've been burned by BMW in the past so I stay far away from anything German engineered for now. BMW's and Mercedes do not age well.
The reason the F "doesn't sell well" is because it's sold to a very particular market. Most of the F's I looked at sold fast. The issue though is I had to wait until the weekends to travel to see the cars as they were an hour or more away from me. Mainly the average consumer has no idea what an ISF is other than it has some minor body differences compared to an ISX50 and those some people wouldn't know the difference unless the cars were next to each other.
Most consumers mainly care about MPG's these days so when you tell the regular Joe this car gets X/X but the ISX50 get's better X/X of course they'll lean towards that.
The ISF sells well in it's particular market. Unfortunately you may pay a premium for it due to just that.
Hope to see you on here again someday! Take care and enjoy your new car!!!
Again GL with your BMW I'm sure you will be pleased with it once you take ownership. I've been burned by BMW in the past so I stay far away from anything German engineered for now. BMW's and Mercedes do not age well.
Believe me, knowing that my BMW will inevitably have problems does worry me a bit, but the warranty, reduced tech (I didn't order nav or moonroof), the fact that it's a 2 series (less tech to begin with) and the overall reliability data since it's intro in late 2013 shows the car as having above average reliability (for now) helps me sleep a little better. I do know BMW's can be maintenance hogs and can have electrical problems.
IMO, most of the BMW ownership horror stories are those from buyers that bought used 4 y/o+ higher end BMWs because they are relatively cheap. The owners didn't consider the German car maintenance costs or the possible electrical issues. I feel real sorry for anyone that's bought an N54 twin turbo BMW out of warranty. Frightening. I'd NEVER buy a used BMW just like I'd never by a used WRX (my current car). Simply way too much risk.
The reason the F "doesn't sell well" is because it's sold to a very particular market. Most of the F's I looked at sold fast. The issue though is I had to wait until the weekends to travel to see the cars as they were an hour or more away from me. Mainly the average consumer has no idea what an ISF is other than it has some minor body differences compared to an ISX50 and those some people wouldn't know the difference unless the cars were next to each other.
Here in the Midwest, ISFs don't sell well at all, yet the dealers think they're gold. Then they end up sitting on them for months on end as they keep dropping the prices $1,000/mo. I probably would have pulled the trigger on an ISF months ago if the dealers would have been more reasonable with their pricing. What I offered was what they ultimately ended up listing at, if not quite a bit less. LOL
IMO, the ISF is the best muscle sedan you can buy for the money assuming you keep the price in the $30K-45K range. It does most everything exceptionally well and is extremely reliable. You could never say that about the German counterparts. They might drive a little better, but they certainly aren't reliable or cheap to maintain.
Here in the Midwest, ISFs don't sell well at all, yet the dealers think they're gold. Then they end up sitting on them for months on end as they keep dropping the prices $1,000/mo. I probably would have pulled the trigger on an ISF months ago if the dealers would have been more reasonable with their pricing. What I offered was what they ultimately ended up listing at, if not quite a bit less. LOL
IMO, the ISF is the best muscle sedan you can buy for the money assuming you keep the price in the $30K-45K range. It does most everything exceptionally well and is extremely reliable. You could never say that about the German counterparts. They might drive a little better, but they certainly aren't reliable or cheap to maintain.
drops 1k a month? lol.
last time i remember, lexus is always #1 brand for used dealers to buy and sell.
drops 1k a month? lol. last time i remember, lexus is always #1 brand for used dealers to buy and sell.
True. Lexus will hold its value way more than a German car. Mercedes and bmw values drop like rocks. Some cars loses 50% value before 3 years lol. Yeah I had the N54 335i. It was a beast but an unreliable POS. Only had 80k miles before I sold it.
last time i remember, lexus is always #1 brand for used dealers to buy and sell.
I've been following this thread because i was/am in the market. He is talking about the dealerships that "overprice" their vehicles from the start. I'm in the process of buying a 2012 F that the original asking price was almost 43k and they were dropping it about $900 every 10 days towards the end. No doubt that Lexus is a #1 brand but the IS-F is sold to a "small" market since a lot of people aren't familiar with it.
^This guy gets it. The ISF's main problem is that it has no identity. Short of avid car guys like us, hardly anyone knows about the thing. I personally like that aspect of it. The issue is that dealers think more people know about thing thus it commands a big premium. They're wrong.
02-02-16, 12:04 PM
