Am I being unrealistic with my expectations when buying a used ISF?
11-15-15, 08:58 AM
#94
What car are you looking at now? I would like to see the ad.
I remember shopping for me car, after they wouldn't budge on the price, I bought my car brand new in San Francisco on 01/05/2013. The car got off the ship and didn't even hit the showroom floor, per my request. I traded in my Honda Accord V6 coupe and took the IS-F home. I don't think I slept at all that night.
I remember shopping for me car, after they wouldn't budge on the price, I bought my car brand new in San Francisco on 01/05/2013. The car got off the ship and didn't even hit the showroom floor, per my request. I traded in my Honda Accord V6 coupe and took the IS-F home. I don't think I slept at all that night.
11-18-15, 09:56 PM
#95
Pole Position
11-20-15, 09:10 AM
#96
MORE DRAMA FOR YO MOMMA, BRO!
So let this be a lesson to you guys, be very careful about flying to get a car site unseen. Yesterday I arrived in Chicago to get this one owner, Lexus Certified, "immaculate", "never wrecked", perfect Carfax 2013 ISF yesterday. Visually, the car looked stunning. The body panels looked straight, the gaps tight. I then opened the doors and started checking the door jams for overspray, which is something EVERYONE should do when buying a used car. It's body work 101 and a very easy way to identify panel respray, especially on rear 1/4 panels.
The drivers side rear passenger door jam had overspray and tape marks. The remaining jams were glass smooth as they should be. I popped the filler door on that side (rear driver's 1/4 panel). Overspray. Felt the inside body rail by the back window on that side. Overspray and heavy polishing compound debris. Trunk jam on that side of the car. Overspray. Looked at the muffler on that side of the car. Severely dented. The dented muffler really made me nervous because I started wondering about subframe damage because what I was seeing was a likely slide and the car bounced onto/over a curb.
Within 5 minutes of being there, I turned to the salemen and said I needed my deposit back, I'm walking from the sale, and to call me a cab to get back to the airport. She was shocked and went from cool to being a total jerk. I told her once again if there was any indication of a wreck, I'd walk because I'm not paying premium dollar for a wrecked ISF. This was the most expensive ISF for sale in the country. She told me we could have avoided all of this if "I" would have had the car inspected. My response was I'm the only inspector I trust and it's her dealership that let her down on the Lexus inspection process. At a minimum, L-certification technicians should be able to identify the obvious body work. Per the L-certification sheet, the exhaust section was checked "up to Lexus certification standards" LOL The manager came out with some bodyshop guy with 20 years of experience and they said they had no idea what I was talking about and to show them. I looked at them straight face and politely said, "No thanks. I know what I'm seeing and you won't convince me otherwise."
$600 is what this fiasco will have cost me. I guess better than $51,500 and being really pissed.
There was no sorry on their end. No offer to cover my expenses (wasn't expecting this anyways). I'm not going to bother trying to get any reimbursement from them, but rather, I'm going to post on every review site my experience and to warm people to do their inspection due diligence on a used car.
So let this be a lesson to you guys, be very careful about flying to get a car site unseen. Yesterday I arrived in Chicago to get this one owner, Lexus Certified, "immaculate", "never wrecked", perfect Carfax 2013 ISF yesterday. Visually, the car looked stunning. The body panels looked straight, the gaps tight. I then opened the doors and started checking the door jams for overspray, which is something EVERYONE should do when buying a used car. It's body work 101 and a very easy way to identify panel respray, especially on rear 1/4 panels.
The drivers side rear passenger door jam had overspray and tape marks. The remaining jams were glass smooth as they should be. I popped the filler door on that side (rear driver's 1/4 panel). Overspray. Felt the inside body rail by the back window on that side. Overspray and heavy polishing compound debris. Trunk jam on that side of the car. Overspray. Looked at the muffler on that side of the car. Severely dented. The dented muffler really made me nervous because I started wondering about subframe damage because what I was seeing was a likely slide and the car bounced onto/over a curb.
Within 5 minutes of being there, I turned to the salemen and said I needed my deposit back, I'm walking from the sale, and to call me a cab to get back to the airport. She was shocked and went from cool to being a total jerk. I told her once again if there was any indication of a wreck, I'd walk because I'm not paying premium dollar for a wrecked ISF. This was the most expensive ISF for sale in the country. She told me we could have avoided all of this if "I" would have had the car inspected. My response was I'm the only inspector I trust and it's her dealership that let her down on the Lexus inspection process. At a minimum, L-certification technicians should be able to identify the obvious body work. Per the L-certification sheet, the exhaust section was checked "up to Lexus certification standards" LOL The manager came out with some bodyshop guy with 20 years of experience and they said they had no idea what I was talking about and to show them. I looked at them straight face and politely said, "No thanks. I know what I'm seeing and you won't convince me otherwise."
$600 is what this fiasco will have cost me. I guess better than $51,500 and being really pissed.
There was no sorry on their end. No offer to cover my expenses (wasn't expecting this anyways). I'm not going to bother trying to get any reimbursement from them, but rather, I'm going to post on every review site my experience and to warm people to do their inspection due diligence on a used car.
Your mistake is you should have used a 3rd party inspection shop to have it done and problem would be solved. Either way you would have invested some money but at least you didn't have to fly out there. I've bought PLENTY of cars sight un-seen and for private party, it's best to have local guys vouch for him. As for dealership cars, I've always had a 3rd party inspection. Doesn't matter if the car was $20k or $120k. I bought my last R8 sight un-seen from a dealer on east coast, no issues.
In your case, you insisted on being the final inspection person and glad to hear you caught the mistake. But those costs are a given and incurred by yourself since you insisted on being "the only person you trust". Story done. Dealerships are known to be sneaky. Iv'e dealt with McGrath Lexus in both their locations (Vestmont and Chicago) and both have been very honest. Too bad you got a bad apple it seems.
11-20-15, 11:44 AM
#97
Driver
Thread Starter
Na, I'm over it. I tired of dealing with used car dealers and their games. It's exhausted me to the point that ISFs, and used cars for that matter, are likely off the table. I had been trying to work a deal last week on a newly listed white 2014 ISF in Wichita, not 180 miles from me. Unfortunately it's at a Chevy/Caddy dealer and they are just utterly terrible with the games they want to play with me. They don't want to post pictures of the car (you can see the listing on Cars.com) but they did send me a super crappy quality video of the car. They were asking $54K and wouldn't budge. I said $51K max including fees (not tax) which is completely fair based on KBB and NADA. I hope they enjoy seeing it collect dust like so many ISFs for sale in this country are doing. There is a 2013 USB ISF with red interior that just popped up in St. Louis for $49,800 at a Lexus dealer. I'm just too tired to deal now.
Unless an ISF shows up in KC, I'll likely be holding on to the WRX for the winter then will be exploring new cars only in the spring, possibly slightly used 991 911s.
Last edited by XutvJet; 11-20-15 at 11:52 AM.
11-20-15, 11:50 AM
#98
Driver
Thread Starter
Your mistake is you should have used a 3rd party inspection shop to have it done and problem would be solved. Either way you would have invested some money but at least you didn't have to fly out there. I've bought PLENTY of cars sight un-seen and for private party, it's best to have local guys vouch for him. As for dealership cars, I've always had a 3rd party inspection. Doesn't matter if the car was $20k or $120k. I bought my last R8 sight un-seen from a dealer on east coast, no issues.
In your case, you insisted on being the final inspection person and glad to hear you caught the mistake. But those costs are a given and incurred by yourself since you insisted on being "the only person you trust". Story done. Dealerships are known to be sneaky. Iv'e dealt with McGrath Lexus in both their locations (Vestmont and Chicago) and both have been very honest. Too bad you got a bad apple it seems.
In your case, you insisted on being the final inspection person and glad to hear you caught the mistake. But those costs are a given and incurred by yourself since you insisted on being "the only person you trust". Story done. Dealerships are known to be sneaky. Iv'e dealt with McGrath Lexus in both their locations (Vestmont and Chicago) and both have been very honest. Too bad you got a bad apple it seems.
The only third party Chicago inspection firm I'd trust in Chicago would have cost me $400 and they couldn't inspect the car in time. Based on everything McGrath was telling me (ie "we saw no overspray, no damage anywhere") plus the fact that they're a Lexus dealer (ie figured they were honest and capable), I took the risk of flying because I honestly thought the car would be mostly perfect and definitely not wrecked goods. Lesson learned.
I caution anyone looking at these cars that if they're acquired from auction, it is quite likely the car has been wrecked. This is based on personnel experience and friend's experiences as well. Lots of dealers buy wrecked cars at auction at a discount and fix them at their own shop.
11-20-15, 01:05 PM
#99
The only third party Chicago inspection firm I'd trust in Chicago would have cost me $400 and they couldn't inspect the car in time. Based on everything McGrath was telling me (ie "we saw no overspray, no damage anywhere") plus the fact that they're a Lexus dealer (ie figured they were honest and capable), I took the risk of flying because I honestly thought the car would be mostly perfect and definitely not wrecked goods. Lesson learned.
I caution anyone looking at these cars that if they're acquired from auction, it is quite likely the car has been wrecked. This is based on personnel experience and friend's experiences as well. Lots of dealers buy wrecked cars at auction at a discount and fix them at their own shop.
I caution anyone looking at these cars that if they're acquired from auction, it is quite likely the car has been wrecked. This is based on personnel experience and friend's experiences as well. Lots of dealers buy wrecked cars at auction at a discount and fix them at their own shop.
Anyway, read your comments on overspray and I feel a bit like an idiot as I have a pretty solid history with cars as well... but you obviously know your stuff. I have a MM ISF (which coincidentally I purchased at McGrath) and I've since noticed BLACK overspray on the inside of the doors on the bottom. I only noticed this after I got hardcore with my detailing which was a few months after I got the car. I BELIEVE I noticed it AFTER I had my calipers painted blue at a body shop I trust. Any thoughts? Small black spots on a silver car?
edit: Nothing on carfax or autocheck fyi. I had a score of 98 on the latter.
11-20-15, 01:32 PM
#100
Driver
Thread Starter
Been awhile since I checked in on this thread. Sorry for your experiences in the Chi, but that's how they behave here, so I'm not surprised. Chicago is a miserable place.
Anyway, read your comments on overspray and I feel a bit like an idiot as I have a pretty solid history with cars as well... but you obviously know your stuff. I have a MM ISF (which coincidentally I purchased at McGrath) and I've since noticed BLACK overspray on the inside of the doors on the bottom. I only noticed this after I got hardcore with my detailing which was a few months after I got the car. I BELIEVE I noticed it AFTER I had my calipers painted blue at a body shop I trust. Any thoughts? Small black spots on a silver car?
edit: Nothing on carfax or autocheck fyi. I had a score of 98 on the latter.
Anyway, read your comments on overspray and I feel a bit like an idiot as I have a pretty solid history with cars as well... but you obviously know your stuff. I have a MM ISF (which coincidentally I purchased at McGrath) and I've since noticed BLACK overspray on the inside of the doors on the bottom. I only noticed this after I got hardcore with my detailing which was a few months after I got the car. I BELIEVE I noticed it AFTER I had my calipers painted blue at a body shop I trust. Any thoughts? Small black spots on a silver car?
edit: Nothing on carfax or autocheck fyi. I had a score of 98 on the latter.
It's unlikely overspray if it's black dots. Usually the overspray I'm talking about will be close to body color, but it will have minimal, if any, gloss, and will feel slightly rough. Sometimes it will be slightly caulky in appearance. I worry more about repainted 1/4 panels and front fenders than other panels like doors, hoods, and roofs because poorly refinished 1/4 panels and front fenders can rub on bumper covers and rust. I've seen that way too many times.
If I would have known the ISF in Chicago was worked on by a quality shop and the muffler wasn't damaged, I probably would have negotiated them down another $2,000 for diminished value, bought the car, and would have wet sanded the overspray/tape lines to make it look better. The paint work on the panel was really good, but the fact that they knew nothing of it didn't give me warm fuzzies.
11-20-15, 01:44 PM
#101
Pole Position
Na, I'm over it. I tired of dealing with used car dealers and their games. It's exhausted me to the point that ISFs, and used cars for that matter, are likely off the table. I had been trying to work a deal last week on a newly listed white 2014 ISF in Wichita, not 180 miles from me. Unfortunately it's at a Chevy/Caddy dealer and they are just utterly terrible with the games they want to play with me. They don't want to post pictures of the car (you can see the listing on Cars.com) but they did send me a super crappy quality video of the car. They were asking $54K and wouldn't budge. I said $51K max including fees (not tax) which is completely fair based on KBB and NADA. I hope they enjoy seeing it collect dust like so many ISFs for sale in this country are doing. There is a 2013 USB ISF with red interior that just popped up in St. Louis for $49,800 at a Lexus dealer. I'm just too tired to deal now.
Unless an ISF shows up in KC, I'll likely be holding on to the WRX for the winter then will be exploring new cars only in the spring, possibly slightly used 991 911s.
Unless an ISF shows up in KC, I'll likely be holding on to the WRX for the winter then will be exploring new cars only in the spring, possibly slightly used 991 911s.
You are at an advantage right now if you didn't realize, "winter is coming" and these dealers in snow filled areas will be ready to off load these cars because they wont be able to sell them once it hits and that is another 6 months until the spring and summer shows up and people will feel safe about driving them.. Case in point the guy who just got the 2010 Matador red ISF in Rochester NY.. got it for well under what they were asking when i started looking in July all because they didnt want it there over winter. You obviously arent afraid to drive and buy one sight unseen so open up your search. Here is a SFP ISF that just listed up in Seattle for exactly the price you offered the one in KS..
http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/de...62780/overview
Perfect example of an ISF.. Im sure you can get a few hundred off, tell them you are flying out of town to get the car. I had 3 dealers out of the 5 offer 500-750 off just because i was flying to come get it. I even asked 1 dealer since they were budging on the price if i would get 2 to 3 free oils
changes and a couple car wash vouchers and hey said they could do that. Im sure you are set in your ways and want the perfect ISF but as you have seen ,its not going to happen. my ISF has some cosmetic issues and its isn't perfect, but mechanically its sound and its what i really wanted so all that other **** is irrelevant ( to me) .
I guess in short is maybe loosen your strict standards, be a little forgiving, nicer , and understanding and i guarantee you will land the right ISF.. you honestly may be the only dude up here having a hard time getting into one and you are missing out how bad *** this car really is. I wish i would have just got this car before I got my VolvoS60R and ended up dealing with that whole mess
Good Luck
Token
11-20-15, 01:48 PM
#102
Man, don't give up on the IS-F, it's one of a kind machine.
Take a breather and get back in the game, no offense to 911's, they are great cars but I see more of them. I ran one on the freeway and embarrassed the hell out of this guy.
You did a lot of leg work and didn't settle, I did the same thing. You're almost there.
Like others said, the car is VERY VERY RARE, they are not made anymore, some colors are rarer than others. People don't know about this car, just the look on their faces when I wipe the highway with whatever they tried to compete with is worth the price alone.
If there is a car in NC that you like, I can scope it out on the weekends when I don't travel.
Take a breather and get back in the game, no offense to 911's, they are great cars but I see more of them. I ran one on the freeway and embarrassed the hell out of this guy.
You did a lot of leg work and didn't settle, I did the same thing. You're almost there.
Like others said, the car is VERY VERY RARE, they are not made anymore, some colors are rarer than others. People don't know about this car, just the look on their faces when I wipe the highway with whatever they tried to compete with is worth the price alone.
If there is a car in NC that you like, I can scope it out on the weekends when I don't travel.
11-20-15, 02:02 PM
#104
It's unlikely overspray if it's black dots. Usually the overspray I'm talking about will be close to body color, but it will have minimal, if any, gloss, and will feel slightly rough. Sometimes it will be slightly caulky in appearance. I worry more about repainted 1/4 panels and front fenders than other panels like doors, hoods, and roofs because poorly refinished 1/4 panels and front fenders can rub on bumper covers and rust. I've seen that way too many times.
Don't give up on the F.
