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Just curious guys, but I thought the ISF is trapping between 112-114 stock?? There are others on this board who have trapped in the high teens with I/H/E...............so did I read wrong or is this an improved trap time?
Yes I've trapped in the 112-114 and yes on slicks but without headers only intake/exhaust but in cool temps . I guess he's in the Texas heat so it's also a bit different also elevation DA will play a role with whom gets what times and trap speeds, as we see that from Caymandive times compared to other ppls times with similar mods but living in different parts of the country. I know when I run my car in the summer heat I usually loose about 2mph and don't get anywhere close to my PB usually .2 seconds off, which is like loosing the exhaust mod gains which account for 20whp or so.
So with this I'm waiting for you to run along side a similar equipped Isf and then we can put the "nail in the coffin" only thing is I know you have traction issues so you'd have to do some roll starts. If its at least a minimum 20hp difference it should show.
Originally Posted by USB_F
I'll run with ya
Have you taken him up on the offer ? As he's got same bolt ons as you?
OP: I'm in the a similar situation as you. I have been refraining to post until I had some good news, but it isn't looking good. I have had in my possession an ECU from SARD, since April.
I've been working with Nigel from JDMparts.com. I've done back to back dyno runs between stock and SARD ECU. The results are just like yours. There are no gains to show on the dyno. My rev limiter is at 7,500 rpm. The car does feel faster, but I think it is due largely to reconfigured throttle response. I also can tell the shifts are faster. I can even tell the car sounds a bit different, ever so slightly. Normal mode feels better than stock. It is more responsive, but still tame. Sport mode is a whole different ball park. It is where you can feel the changes. Haven't had a response from Nigel for a long time.
I feel sorry for both of you who have bought these units. If Novel bought a USDM ISF and ran this tune, they would be in the same spot so why would they be deceitful and sell a product that didn't produce gains? This upsets me, fraud on both Sard and Novel. I'd like the company who sells headers for the price of a good used car to man up and explain or give the money back.
Everyone poopoos horsepower number from DC, right? so did my bud. So I asked him to due runs with the SAME software. Guess the Freak What?!?!?
His car was dyno'd and tuned at cobb tuining so he has excellent numbers on his base line and his tune.
Do you know HOW CLOSE DC was in calculating crank HP?
Within 5hp!
Crank not wheel, had to use drive train loss. Before he did this test he was VERY Skeptical. Afterwards he came back and apologized. He thought there was NO WAY it could be THAT close. That matches perfect with the dude here whos's crank HP from dash command match his dyno numbers within 3 hp!
I think the ECUs are doing exatly what is detailed in the CD article above. I think this VARIANCE is why people consider things like DC UNRELIABLE indicators of performance. WHEN IN FACT WHAT I BELIEVE what is actually happening is that IT IS ACCURATELY REPORTING VARYING OUTPUT LEVELS AS A FUNCTION OF ENGINE SELF PROTECTION MEASURES!
AND THIS IS THE GENIUS PART....
It doesn't Impact things like headers and such BECAUSE the FUNDAMENTAL SAFETY MARGINS inherrent in the STOCK ECU are MAINTAINED WITH THESE TYPES OF MODS.
ECUs are DIFFERENT specifically BECAUSE THEY REDUCE THIS MARGIN inorder to increase POWER OUTPUT, safety margin relaxation is the operating principle by which the power gains are generated! HA!
(Okay, you can all call me stupid and crazy now, I've been called worse)
Then the best way to see gains would be a before and after 1/4 miles runs at the drag strip.. Hopefully the DA for both days is similar. I really hope your right!!! Fingers crossed!!!
I remember back in the early days when Supras had trouble on the dyno. People were actually stacking bags of ice on the engine to get a cool down run, and now people know how to dyno Supras. I say forget the dyno. Take it to the 1/4 mile track. You don't even need to worry about reaction times, all that matters is what your trap speeds are. That will tell you exactly if you have a power increase from the ECUs.
OP: I'm in the a similar situation as you. I have been refraining to post until I had some good news, but it isn't looking good. I have had in my possession an ECU from SARD, since April.
I've been working with Nigel from JDMparts.com. I've done back to back dyno runs between stock and SARD ECU. The results are just like yours. There are no gains to show on the dyno. My rev limiter is at 7,500 rpm. The car does feel faster, but I think it is due largely to reconfigured throttle response. I also can tell the shifts are faster. I can even tell the car sounds a bit different, ever so slightly. Normal mode feels better than stock. It is more responsive, but still tame. Sport mode is a whole different ball park. It is where you can feel the changes. Haven't had a response from Nigel for a long time.
wow, I'm really interested in the SARD one. 7500rpm is amazing. for what it's worth, my car ran 10x on a dynojet. 5 runs on each different days. After each of the runs, it gains a few more HP. I was at 398whp on my first run, ended at 408whp on the 9-10th runs. Same dyno that the new M3/4 put down consistently 410-417whp. I guess there can be plenty of variables so it is hard to judge the numbers.
Toyota ECUs even on factory n/a cars WILL see afrs drop to close to 10:1 at WOT... Certainly under 11:1. I've dynoed enough to know this.
Also, I've run the same car on the same dyno (an SC400) with the factory ECU and then with an aftermarket one and picked up over 15% increase in power. That is with NO hardware/mechanical changes at all, just far better ignition and afr maps. So the gains are there, especially on very conservative Toyota maps.
I can also vouch for rpm increases being of little performance value in an otherwise standard engine, with the SC400 the engine could Rev to 7000 all day long (and sound fantastic doing it!) but on the track it was actually marginally slower because the stock cams were all out of puff by 6000 or so...
I personally will hold my judgement on these IS F ECUs until better back-to-back testing can be done, I do not think it is in the interests of any company to deliberately sell expensive products that don't work, especially when they have gone to the lengths of development that Novell appear to have. Word will quickly spread as it has here when products don't work, sure you might get a few unwise buyers but ultimately you won't make money in a reasonably savvy, small market like this.
Not just yet, but there is dragstrip nearby - San Antonio Raceway.
I'm sure they still do test and tune runs on Friday nights.
OP - you been there before??
What?
No!
Where when ?
Helmet slicks , what do I need to run?
I forgot to mention something , I lifted at 110 mph on that 114 mph trap, I didn't have an appropriate distance marker, thought because of the speed I was at I must have past 1/4 , turns out I ended up
Coasting.
We can answer a lot of questions this way.
Anyone got a pair of drag radials I can borrow for a night?
Pm me please! (Again , feel like driving down for some fun?)
10-07-15, 01:50 PM
200 MPH here you go.....