RRRacing

iTrader: (1)

My intention was NOT to post in this thread, but I cannot disagree more with the tone and the insinuations of this thread which is clearly and bluntly aimed at discrediting us and our product.

The notion that our competitor is posting as a sort of "public service message" to the ISF community is ridiculous -- we all know what this is about.

One thing is for sure, those who do not believe in our AOS, have never used our AOS!

We have clearly documented, and our customers have clearly documented the amount of oil that gets ingested into the engine through the PCV system. That has been well documented in this link by us and our customers:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...separator.html


The notion that the oil is accumulating in the PCV because the oil is migrating to a "cooler" AOS, is simply incorrect (the fact that the AOS is cooler helps reduce the saturation vapor pressure of the oil vapor, and combined with the swirl effect and filter results in coalescence of liquid oil into the AOS canister rather than burning in the combustion chamber and exhaust system). Every bit of oil which we and our customers have documented with pictures would have entered the engine, period. The PCV inlet is WET with oil. If you push the car hard on the road, or track it.. just take off the PCV hose, it will be dripping wet. If you take off the Throttle Body you wlll also find that the intake manifold is wet. With our AOS, it will be DRY. The AOS is located well upstream and higher than the PCV valve and OEM baffles, it is not magically drawing oil from the baffling that would otherwise leak back into the engine!

The concept of an AOS was not invented by RR-Racing. It is used extensively in street performance and racing applications EVERYWHERE.

I do not want to get into a flame war here, but I just want to say that I deeply resent and I am offended by the accusations about our product. We have put a huge amount of effort into our products in order to offer both good value an unique new products for the ISF. We will continue that effort, we will always support our customers, but above all, we will carry on with the utmost attention to ethics in accurately representing the function of our products.

-Rafi

PS. and one more thing regarding the value of an AOS.... what is accumulating in the AOS is not simply pure oil. It is normal for all kinds of contaminants to enter the oil, such as fuel, water vapor, and other volatile contaminants that create sludge and carbon when burned in the combustion chamber. In fact, as the oil gets heats up, the volatile contamints such as fuel, water vapor, diluted oil, etc are the first to vaporize because they have a much higher vapor pressure compared to pure oil. So in the interest of clearing up any confusion out there, maybe we will now call it the Air/Contaminant Separator (ACS):-)




oil accumulation in the AOS after 4 sessions at the track

sraban

How about the high viscosity oil that Mike recommended here (probably 10/50)? Would Toyota recommend such high viscosity grade? Using such high viscosity grades in race engines that are designed differently from street engines is one thing, but is this a smart advice to use such high viscosity grades in a production car? Also, in the photo above I see traces of oil in the Intake hose -- RR Racing eliminating this oil with its Intake ventilation system.

FIGS

iTrader: (11)

Traces, but not a substantial amount. Just trying to figure out where this oil goes if it is constantly being burnt. The only competing product I sell here is common sense. You have taken offense because you have a product here, but I never called out your product specifically. If we cannot have a constructive discussion then what is the point of a forum?
We have been running higher viscosity oil for a while and Lexus cannot suggest running it because it would violate the EPA testing parameters that the engine was approved for road use. On our race team motors that are much tighter tolerance builds we run 5w40t motul as I stated.

I am not saying your product does not work, it is obviously a well designed catch can. I am trying to determine why and where a catch can should be used for a track/street vehicle and the consequences of those decisions as well as how oil viscosity impacts the occurrence of blow by.

sraban

Traces in the Intake, substantial amounts in the PCV -- as was shown many times -- you are intentionally confusing the issues.


You did not call out RR Racing AOS, and this was why Rafi did not respond. However, there were subsequent posts that referred to our AOS, and it is his obligation to clarify the merits of our products. You also implied that it is a waste of money to spend on an AOS system - this offends all our customers who invested in one. If you developed a better AOS system, we would applaud it, but you have not.


Finally, your post is not accurate -- Toyota would not recommend running such high viscosity oil for street use on an engine designed for lower viscosity oil, and I would bet you still got substantial amount in your PCV even with the higher viscosity oil -- so you are misleading here not providing public service.


My responsibility is to make sure we provide the highest customer service and manufacture our products at best quality and efficiency. I would not tolerate anyone offending our customers so bluntly as you did here.


-- Simon

I8ABMR

I have done more track days in my ISF than 99% of the members on this board and I do them more frequently than anyone I have seen on this board ( 1 track day every 7-8 weeks on average ) and all I know is that the AOS works for me. I see what is being said about simply creating a cool spot for oil vapor to condense but if it did not work then why does my car feel more powerful in the extreme AZ heat and on the track ?? I want to keep my engine clean as it ages BUT what was more important to me was maintaining the power level on the track in the extreme heat AZ offers. Whether I am on the street or on the track my car always feels sluggish when it gets really hot. I always just attributed that to the ECU pulling timing or the air entering the engine just being much less dense, BUT as soon as I added the AOS to my car my car feel just as powerful on the track at 7 bar oil temps than it does while heading to the office on a cool morning. I am sure that the AOS has helped reduced the amount of knock , detonation, and retarding of the timing by the ECU. It's very obvious if you live in this type of environment. Because living in AZ exposes my car to abnormal heat and also allows for way more frequent track days ( we do them year round out here ) I will take all the help I can get and I am very thankful that RR Racing developed this unit AND that they priced it so well

The price and quality of the system is excellent and as one of the biggest track junkies on Club Lexus I am fully convinced that the AOS is a valuable mod . I don't have the technical knowledge that some here may have , but I know my car...... and I know it well on the track. RR Racing AOS works for me!

flowrider

iTrader: (9)

Figs, Rafi, and Simon this is an open forum. And I applaud both RRRacing and Figs Engineering for concentrating on making products that improve our limited production vehicle - The Lexus ISF. Most of us on the forum have an abnormal luv affair with our vehicles. and I know in my case, I'm in no hurry to part with my 7 year old car. My interest is in improving it. and over the years I believe I have.

I have digested all the available information, and IMHO, the AOS works and again, IMHO, should be installed on any vehicle that is driven in an aggressive manner. If this device saves even a trace amount of oil from being indigested into the intake system I welcome it.

I cut my teeth on automobiles back before the days of PCV valves, when the unburned oil was simply vented to the outside atmosphere through a road draft tube, good for the engine, not so good for the air we breath. PCV valves were introduced in 1961 and by 1964 all vehicles sold in the US had them. We all know why this happened, and again, it was a good thing, for the atmosphere, not so good for the gasoline engine.

Again, IMHO, a well designed Oil Catch Can system, which the RRRacing AOS is, is a relatively inexpensive way to both improve the performance of the gasoline engine and still keep the air clean.

And again, thanks to both vendors for being a part of the ISF community.

So let's stop throwing stones, and let the members decide. There's certainly enough information available from personal experience, in this forum, and from elsewhere on which to base a rational decision.

Lou