ZaxF

iTrader: (3)

So I've been talking to Rotora about their RCCBS and before I spend a bagillion dollars on a set up, I wanted to ask some of you super smart guys what you thought about them. They sent me the torque and mu graphs for their street/track pads and I wasn't that impressed. Average mu was .47 (in comparison, XP12 is.65), very consistent throughout the operating range, and operating temps from 50-450 C. I'm sure they offer a better pad and I've asked, and apparently the rotor life is 120k miles (whoa). I still need to win the lottery before blowing money on these, but figured with this technology on the cusp of becoming more affordable, figured we could start a discussion.

JT2MA71

iTrader: (7)

I am still trying to convince myself that these brakes are worth it. I have been drooling over the FIGS/RB CCM kit for a while now

http://shopfigs.com/v1/index.php?rou...product_id=310

ZaxF

iTrader: (3)

I certainly can't afford either right now, but those are my #1 choice if money was no object.

Im working with Figs for a different option until the powerball comes in...haha

ForzaF

iTrader: (3)

When I first saw the price on those I said whoa I can buy a small compact car lol.
Was watching a cool video of the Brembo carbon ceramic brakes. Very interesting video but not worth the money unless you're in another playing field racing in motorsports.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

The thing I wonder about most is service life under track conditions. I've not seen any discussion on that issue, and it might be the thing that makes buying CCBs economically feasible.

ZaxF

iTrader: (3)

That's exactly the kind of information I was hoping to uncover.

RRRacing

iTrader: (1)

If the service life is so great on the CCM stuff, I wonder why I am seeing so many conversion kits for replacing CCM rotors with 2 piece cast iron:-)

There is a weight savings, but there are also durability issues, and the cost is not where it needs to be to justify doing this. BTW, most sports car based racing series outlaw CCM brakes, so the funny thing is you are more likely to see it on the street than at the track.

Anyway, if you are fading ISF brakes, you are doing something seriously wrong or using the wrong pads!

If you want to save weight in a big way, Carbon Fiber wheels are going down in price. The new Mustang Shelby GT350R has carbon wheels as on option.... I think they are $2000 each retail, which is not much more than some are paying for the latest and greatest "please look at me" billet wheels.

-Rafi

ZaxF

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Rafi. Throughout much of my reading I haven't yet seen anything about the durability, or lack thereof. I did find that most of the F1 racing rotors appear to be carbon-carbon, not carbon ceramic, the 'dumbed down' consumer version. But the engineering on our cars wouldn't be conducive to the environment needed to make them work in our world. And they probably cost upwards of $50k! This was an interesting read: http://www.racecar-engineering.com/t...brake-systems/

I haven't experienced any fade on the track running the stock brembos with motul RBF and carbotech xp12/10 F/R. I'm really just curious about these systems. I don't have $12-$18k lying around to test them myself, ha! I'll stick with upgrading to lighter calipers and two piece rotors.

I talked to ESE Carbon about their E1 wheels last year but I seem to remember they weren't certified at the time (TUV is the target). $2k each is accurate but I don't think they were significantly lighter than a RPF1. Maybe I'll poke them again and see if they'll break me a deal. I want to compete in time attack in '16 so this winter has a lot on the build sheet!

RRRacing

iTrader: (1)

Check out whoever makes the wheels for the GT350R, they must be certified or Ford wouldn't risk installing them as an OEM part. My only worry would be that the first big pothole or off track excursion would cost big $$. Many aftermarket wheels can be repaired.

Funny thing about all this uber high end stuff like carbon brakes, Rays wheels... you almost never see it at the track. There are basic things you need at the track, but in terms of shear speed, I bet you our $3500 RRR/Penske coilovers is a much better investment in making your car faster than $8000 carbon wheels, $4000 Rays wheels, or $8000 ceramic rotors, which will do next to nothing to make you faster:-)

Rafi

ZaxF

iTrader: (3)

You've got that right. And above all else, driver mod. And that only costs practice!

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

QFT! When you read more deeply into customer experience with any carbon brakes, you'll find a lot of folks looking for cast iron rotors because the carbon brakes just don't make sense. Many race teams only run carbon brakes in competition and do their testing with iron brake rotors simply because the cost differential is ridiculous for a very tiny advantage.

I've always been a big fan of the wisdom in "the way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a large fortune."

And my Powerball ticket was a total loss last night too...

I8ABMR

The CC brakes are 10x the price but I have heard they can last 40 times longer. In the end its cost effective if you keep the car forever and do nothing but serious driving and track days

SpeedFreaksUSA

iTrader: (1)

As some of you have already mentioned, CCM rotors are substantially more durable on the street but on the track they see much higher temps and are in most cases less durable than an iron rotor. Many of the Porsche guys we work with convert their PCCBs back to iron rotors for exactly this reason. Just last week I got a phone call form a GT-R guy who spent ~$18K converting his car to CCM rotors and after only 3 track weekends the rotors are likely below minimum weight and are headed to the garbage can. Needless to say he was shocked because he was suckered into the durability argument and I had to the be the one to tell him that only holds true if and only if you can keep the rotor temps below ~600*C which is nearly impossible on most tracks with most drivers

Aside from the cost, the other draw backs to CCM include limited pad selection and in most cases a lack of feel compared to iron rotors.

If you drive your car predominantly on the street, want the bling and have the money to blow then by all means. But if you're tracking the car regularly I would advise you save your money for track time and the usual consumables.

-Matt M.

ZaxF

iTrader: (3)

Most excellent response Matt! (Queue air guitar solo ala Wyld Stallions). That's exactly what I was looking for and hopefully you've saved some of the 'ballers' out there a chunk of money too.

Bigcloud

I have a buddy that has a 997.2 GT-3 and he converted to iron immediately. I do a lot of events with the Porsche Club of America and just about all the cars that came with CCB's have been converted. So speedfreaks is right.