SIKKY front sway bar for ISF !!!
12-19-14, 05:55 PM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I have had them on 2 cars and felt zero negatives in handling or grip. Maybe I will be the guinea pig. I hit the track with my F and I would like as much handling performance as possible. I do like the fact that it is adjustable
12-19-14, 08:42 PM
#17
Youre one of the few ive seen on the track. I might get one of these as well.
12-20-14, 01:44 PM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I will call around to get a quote on install. Very curious. If the softest setting is equal to the F sport ISX50, which is equal to ours then we can essentially go right back to stock if there are any issues or negatives with handling. I still doubt there will be any if I go to the middle setting.
When I first got my F ( like the day I drove it home) I literally said to myself " how the hell do people drop these cars" because it was so stiff and had so much more roll resistance than my LS. Now after a year with the car I can absolutely tell there is some roll.
What I am after primarily is less roll on the street when I am playing around , more direct steering feel and less corner exit oversteer .
ARE THERE ANY OWNERS OUT THERE WHO CAN CHIME IN ?
SIKKY, can you have an owner add some notes, feedback, etc ?
When I first got my F ( like the day I drove it home) I literally said to myself " how the hell do people drop these cars" because it was so stiff and had so much more roll resistance than my LS. Now after a year with the car I can absolutely tell there is some roll.
What I am after primarily is less roll on the street when I am playing around , more direct steering feel and less corner exit oversteer .
ARE THERE ANY OWNERS OUT THERE WHO CAN CHIME IN ?
SIKKY, can you have an owner add some notes, feedback, etc ?
12-20-14, 04:55 PM
#20
Tech Info Resource
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Since you guys work on racecars, can you tell us what the optimum spring rate for a 2.4 Hz natural frequency is, and because you've measured at least one of these chassis, what is optimum ride height for the natural camber curves built into the F chassis? It would be a great starting point for deciding what sways are appropriate for this configuration.
12-21-14, 08:21 AM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I am curious to find out how much stiffer the second setting is over stock. I know that sway bar stiffness increase as the 4th power of the diameter ( example: 22mm to 26 mm : 22x22x22x22 = 234,256. 26x26x26x26 = 456,976. Next you divide the two and BOOM you have a 1.95 time increase in stiffness.) , but Im not sure how to calculate the increase in stiffness with the adjustable settings. My last 2 sets were not adjustable which kind of took the guessing out of the situation. It was doe by the engineers so I didn't have to worry. This set up gives you the option to play around with it but I need more info to make an informed decision .
Last edited by I8ABMR; 12-21-14 at 10:03 AM.
12-21-14, 10:36 AM
#22
Since you guys work on racecars, can you tell us what the optimum spring rate for a 2.4 Hz natural frequency is, and because you've measured at least one of these chassis, what is optimum ride height for the natural camber curves built into the F chassis? It would be a great starting point for deciding what sways are appropriate for this configuration.
Lobux.... Tisk tisk. Three settings come on man. I don't know of anyone developing an ISF race car So that information wouldn't have too much value. Lol
12-21-14, 11:37 AM
#23
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Or is it, we know bigger is better because it just is.
I've bought a lot of junk making lots of claims over the years. Few things I have bought made measurable improvements right out of the box.
12-22-14, 12:41 AM
#24
How can you say you've developed an improved product if you didn't invest an hour in measuring a chassis, plug it in to your chassis modeling software, and at least mathematically determine what settings are best for your new configuration?
Or is it, we know bigger is better because it just is.
I've bought a lot of junk making lots of claims over the years. Few things I have bought made measurable improvements right out of the box.
Or is it, we know bigger is better because it just is.
I've bought a lot of junk making lots of claims over the years. Few things I have bought made measurable improvements right out of the box.
On the other end at my final event at VIR in my race car the sway bar end link mounting on my strut broke leaving me with no front sway bar. I showed the head instructor/event coordinator who is a successful NASA GTS3 racer and he said we could run it. I then researched about running no sway bar and found a bunch of The miata racers do it. They increase their spring rates to compensate for it. So your statement has some validity. My race car turn in felt better without the sway bar. And mine is adjustable.
Last edited by Bigcloud; 12-22-14 at 12:57 AM.
12-22-14, 07:59 AM
#25
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I will call around to get a quote on install. Very curious. If the softest setting is equal to the F sport ISX50, which is equal to ours then we can essentially go right back to stock if there are any issues or negatives with handling. I still doubt there will be any if I go to the middle setting.
When I first got my F ( like the day I drove it home) I literally said to myself " how the hell do people drop these cars" because it was so stiff and had so much more roll resistance than my LS. Now after a year with the car I can absolutely tell there is some roll.
What I am after primarily is less roll on the street when I am playing around , more direct steering feel and less corner exit oversteer .
ARE THERE ANY OWNERS OUT THERE WHO CAN CHIME IN ?
SIKKY, can you have an owner add some notes, feedback, etc ?
When I first got my F ( like the day I drove it home) I literally said to myself " how the hell do people drop these cars" because it was so stiff and had so much more roll resistance than my LS. Now after a year with the car I can absolutely tell there is some roll.
What I am after primarily is less roll on the street when I am playing around , more direct steering feel and less corner exit oversteer .
ARE THERE ANY OWNERS OUT THERE WHO CAN CHIME IN ?
SIKKY, can you have an owner add some notes, feedback, etc ?
The install is as easy as doing an oil change. When I discovered that the F-Sport rear is just a Hotchkis being sold by the dealer, I went ahead and bought the Hotchkis set for the 350 front and rear. I have had it on for over a year and about 10k miles. The improvement I felt was real. But less than expected. When I put on a hotchkis front and rear on my E46 M3, the improvement was night and day. The ISF, not so much. I did go on a drive after the install of the rear bar and after the install of both front and rear. Again, I believe there was a improvement just not a huge improvement.
12-22-14, 08:14 AM
#26
The install is as easy as doing an oil change. When I discovered that the F-Sport rear is just a Hotchkis being sold by the dealer, I went ahead and bought the Hotchkis set for the 350 front and rear. I have had it on for over a year and about 10k miles. The improvement I felt was real. But less than expected. When I put on a hotchkis front and rear on my E46 M3, the improvement was night and day. The ISF, not so much. I did go on a drive after the install of the rear bar and after the install of both front and rear. Again, I believe there was a improvement just not a huge improvement.
12-22-14, 09:26 AM
#27
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The install is as easy as doing an oil change. When I discovered that the F-Sport rear is just a Hotchkis being sold by the dealer, I went ahead and bought the Hotchkis set for the 350 front and rear. I have had it on for over a year and about 10k miles. The improvement I felt was real. But less than expected. When I put on a hotchkis front and rear on my E46 M3, the improvement was night and day. The ISF, not so much. I did go on a drive after the install of the rear bar and after the install of both front and rear. Again, I believe there was a improvement just not a huge improvement.
Show me it took x.xx seconds off a figure 8 time.
Show me it took x.xx seconds off your lap time at yyyyy racetrack.
Show me it raised my skidpad number 0.0x g.
All of these numbers actually mean there is an improvement. Feels better doesn't mean anything. I can tell you some of the worst mods I ever did felt good right away because for the amount of money I spent, they'd better! Then I measured them and found not only were they not good, but they weren't even as good as stock. Far too many people underestimate the effort the factory puts into building a suspension. Sure they have to make compromises, but they do an amazing job of making it all work together.
12-22-14, 10:33 AM
#28
And this is my fundamental problem with all of this stuff. Feel is unimportant. Just because it feels better does not mean it performs better. It just means it feels better.
Show me it took x.xx seconds off a figure 8 time.
Show me it took x.xx seconds off your lap time at yyyyy racetrack.
Show me it raised my skidpad number 0.0x g.
All of these numbers actually mean there is an improvement. Feels better doesn't mean anything. I can tell you some of the worst mods I ever did felt good right away because for the amount of money I spent, they'd better! Then I measured them and found not only were they not good, but they weren't even as good as stock. Far too many people underestimate the effort the factory puts into building a suspension. Sure they have to make compromises, but they do an amazing job of making it all work together.
Show me it took x.xx seconds off a figure 8 time.
Show me it took x.xx seconds off your lap time at yyyyy racetrack.
Show me it raised my skidpad number 0.0x g.
All of these numbers actually mean there is an improvement. Feels better doesn't mean anything. I can tell you some of the worst mods I ever did felt good right away because for the amount of money I spent, they'd better! Then I measured them and found not only were they not good, but they weren't even as good as stock. Far too many people underestimate the effort the factory puts into building a suspension. Sure they have to make compromises, but they do an amazing job of making it all work together.
However "feel" is what makes the driver feel more confident (perception) with the vehicle which can translate to higher driver confidence. The problem exists because the general public associate a softer ride with a poor handling vehicle. (aka a soft/body roll prone Camry Vs a stiffer vehicle like a 370z which obviously handles much better).
Theres a TON of variables which dictates the handling capability of a vehicle, suspension tuning is not common sense but that does not mean aftermarket products can help boost perception and ultimately increase lap times (until the driver tests gains experience with how the suspension mod effects handling)
12-22-14, 10:44 AM
#29
Tech Info Resource
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I agree with you that feeling does not mean it handles better..
However "feel" is what makes the inexperienced driver feel more confident (perception) with the vehicle which can translate to higher driver confidence. The problem exists because the untrained and inexperienced general public associate a softer ride with a poor handling vehicle. (aka a soft/body roll prone Camry Vs a stiffer vehicle like a 370z which obviously handles much better).
Theres a TON of variables which dictates the handling capability of a vehicle, suspension tuning is not common sense but that does not mean aftermarket products can help boost perception and ultimately (decrease) lap times (until the driver tests gains experience with how the suspension mod effects handling)
However "feel" is what makes the inexperienced driver feel more confident (perception) with the vehicle which can translate to higher driver confidence. The problem exists because the untrained and inexperienced general public associate a softer ride with a poor handling vehicle. (aka a soft/body roll prone Camry Vs a stiffer vehicle like a 370z which obviously handles much better).
Theres a TON of variables which dictates the handling capability of a vehicle, suspension tuning is not common sense but that does not mean aftermarket products can help boost perception and ultimately (decrease) lap times (until the driver tests gains experience with how the suspension mod effects handling)
12-22-14, 12:15 PM
#30
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