lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

This happened to me with my Supra one time at a Toyota dealership. I never let anyone else change my oil ever since.

FD3SISF

iTrader: (2)

Thats why you never tech you dont know change the oil on your car.

FD3SISF

iTrader: (2)

Also when you want synthetic dont expect your actually getting it. Your only paying for i,t but get regular oil. I use to get free oil change while waching it getting done. When I live in San Diego. Only use mobile 1 systhetic oil and my friend put regular oil on the mobile 1 to sell to someone else.

Jowett

Some info I've gathered that you may find interesting.... This argument once happened with some regularity on the forums that deal with vehicles using the 5.7L 3UR-FE V8. Toyota specs 0W20 or 5W20 for the 3UR, and folks give the same arguments against using 5W30, too thick. The bearing clearances, oil filter, pump, and exhaust VVTi controller (the intake is electronic on the DI engines) are all essentially the same in UR Series Engines.

Comparison of main bearing oil clearances for an older Toyota V8 from the 1990 LS400, and two UR series, the 2007 Toyota Tundra and the 2008 IS-F. BOTH LS400 and IS-F are spec'd to run with 5W30.

Main bearing oil clearance

LS400 standard all journals .0010 - .0018

IS-F and Tundra journals 2 - 4 .0010 - .0015
journals 1 and 5 .0007 - .0012

LS400 max clearance limit .0022
IS-F and Tundra .0024

Of course, running to thick can create more heat, but that balance needs to be found. Thinner oils can be run, but they need to kept in their optimum CST range... big oil coolers.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Running thick oil reduces horsepower, increases time to proper viscosity (if you ever get there), decreases fuel mileage, and typically does not have any benefit for street use. There's really only one measurement that bears any examination - you need 10 psi of oil pressure for every 1000 rpm up to 75 psi (there is no need to exceed 75 psi.)

Dr. Ali Haas has a great article on oil for Ferrari owners which really applies to anyone who wants to understand what oil needs to do and how to figure out what oil you really need.

Jowett

So why do we have two engines, with the same oil requirements, having different oil weights recommended?

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I'd suggest reading Dr. Haas's article. It brings clarity to the whole problem.

2URGSE

I brought my own oil to the first one, even though it was complimentary. (Castrol 5W-30 full synthetic @ 1100 miles or so)

I also politely reminded them this engine takes 9.8 qrtz of oil with the oil filter.

Try not to go to dealerships on Saturdays, that's when most of the "rookies" work there. I would also ask to speak with the Service Manager personally about your car.

2URGSE

I might watch them work on my car next time. If I ever caught someone doing this, I would file a law suit against that dealership, I hope these techs understand what that means. That is the LOWEST OF LOWEST of behaviors in my opinion, it is theft, plain the simple.

Jowett

My question was a bit rhetorical, not trying to challenge you, though.... Just consider that we have two engines, with the same specs, and similar power. Both are designed to run the same oil temp and pressure, yet, a different oil CST at operating temp. is recommended by Toyota/Lexus.

yjk1975

I thought we get the 1st 2 oil changes for free.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

They have different use profiles, which is the real driving force behind intelligent oil selection. The mechanical specs may be identical, but if they're being used completely differently or being used in different environments, then the weight of the oil needs to be different. I'm going to be a lot more concerned about cold flow if I spend a high percentage of my time on cold cycle - short trips around town or in the north in winter time (not sure if you've noticed, but even in Atlanta it takes 25 minutes for the oil in the F to get up to standard temperature - 3 bars - when the temperature dips below 45F). In this case, you would ideally be running a 0w oil to prevent excessive wear. OTOH, an engine in a police cruiser which almost never gets turned off could run a straight 30 or maybe even a 40 weight oil and never have any wear issues.

This is how you can have two identically built engines with very different oil needs.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

One oil change is included in the purchase of the vehicle by Lexus. Anything more than that is your dealership.

Jowett

Toyota still recommends 0W20 (or 5W20) for even heavily worked vehicles with 3UR-FE. These are 5800 lb Tundras and Land Cruisers. Larger transmissions and other components add up to more losses and load for the engine, never mind the aerodynamics.... they only hold 8 quarts compared to the 10 in the 2UR. The oil is going to be hotter far more often than most IS-F cars will ever see even occasionally.... for those that actually use their IS-F, a large oil to air cooler would be prudent if keeping XW30 in there.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

The load difference between these applications and ours is trivial. It doesn't take 100 hp to push a Tundra down the road at 65 mph. The heat load difference between the 12 - 16 hp it takes for an IS and the 20 - 22 hp it takes for a Tundra or Landcruiser isn't worth changing oil weight. Assuming someone drives a truck doesn't mean they're loading it up all the time. Few owners actually do that. The vast majority buy a truck and drive it like a car except for one week out of the year when they go boating, camping, or have to actually haul something. Even most work trucks are used like cars. BTW, have you seen the size of the transmission cooler in a Tundra with a tow package? It's about twice the size of the F's ATF air/oil component.

At the end of the day I care about one thing and one thing only. I've seen 284F at the track with 102F OAT. I run Mobil 1 5w-30 and have had it analyzed by Blackstone at every change (now 12k miles). Every time it comes back with excellent results. I'm a LOT more concerned about driving around with thick cold oil than I am about thin oil. Again, if you read Dr. Haas's article, all of this becomes pretty clear. Especially when you see there's practically no difference in viscosity from 20 weight to 60 weight at 302F. They're ALL way less than 5 cSt. I'm happy to run the oil that gets to 10 cSt more quickly...