Comparison...IS-F vs. E46 M3 after 2 weeks of ownership
10-25-10, 05:25 AM
#1
Comparison...IS-F vs. E46 M3 after 2 weeks of ownership
So after 2 weeks of fun with my Lexus IS-F, I thought I would share some of my experiences and opinions of this car.
Engine:
The S54 and the IS-F's engines are different animals. I prefer the ISF's obviously for its 83hp and 109 ft-lb advantage over the S54's. The fat torque curve in the ISF is as flat as Kansas; there is a lot of torque available at low RPMs that will lug the S54. This is absolutely great for city driving, and great for passing too as I don’t need to downshift. One thing I miss though is the 7900 rpm redline. The ISF feels like it could use another 200 – 300 rpm to its 6800 rpm redline. BUT, what it lacks in redline revs, it makes up for with a fat torque curve. I like that the ISF’s engine has a much more relaxed and effortless feel to it. Whenever I drive the M3 hard, I always feel like I’m abusing it because the engine is so high-strung. The ISF is definitely faster than the M in a straight line, and it does it in a much more relaxed fashion. There’s no replacement for displacement!
The engine note from the ISF is absolute bliss. I’ve never liked the note of inline sixes. I went through quite a few intake and muffler combos on my E46 before I found the ideal (for me) setup – stock intake with one AR20 and Dinan muffler. From the factory, the engine, intake and exhaust sound perfect to me on the ISF. The sound is intoxicating, and it still leaves my heart pounding every time I punch it.
Winner…..ISF (duh)
Transmission:
Umm.... three pedals and a direct link to the gearbox versus an auto? What do you think? If the ISF came with a manual, I'd get it in a heartbeat. The 8 speed auto box, despite its .10 second shifts, is great, but there's nothing like doing the work myself.
Winner: ISF
j/k M3 6MT of course.
Handling:
Without a doubt, the E46 reigns over the IS-F in handling. I’ve never tracked or raced my E46 M, but I can feel the difference even in street and spirited driving. For beginners, the ISF is some 350 lbs heavier than the E46 M, and it carries a higher percentage of that weight over its front wheels. I do feel the ISF’s nose push a bit more than did the M3, but it’s nothing to the effect of a FWD car’s behavior. The E46 M3 is a beautifully balanced car, no doubts about it. The best way I can describe the ISF’s handling characteristics is imagine the M3’s handling, but with an extra 80 – 100 lbs in the nose of the car.
Second, I don’t feel as “connected” to the road as I did in the M3. The electric steering assist in the ISF works better and feels more natural than other electric assist systems I’ve driven. However, it still has a bit of “artificial” feel to it, mostly notable in parking lots. The steering wheel in the ISF doesn’t communicate what’s going on at the front wheels as much as the M3 did. The positive side to this is that it’s a more relaxed ride. However, I don’t feel completely “at one” with the steering.
Winner…..M3
Interior:
Interiors between these two cars is tough to compare, since the E46’s interior dates back to 2001, and the ISF’s interior was designed in 2006 (as the IS250 / IS350). There are plusses and minuses to each interior, and it would be tough for me to choose either. Here’s why….
To start, I loved the seats in the M3. Although the ISF’s seats look “cooler” with their blue stitching and F emblem and perforated leather, the M3’s seats were a better fit for me. The ISF’s seat bottom doesn’t have quiet enough angle adjustment, and even at the highest angle, I still feel like I’m sitting on a horizontal seat bottom. Also, the ISF headrests cannot be adjusted for angle, only height. One thing I do like about the ISF seats is that the bolts are a little more aggressive, and they hug me better since their not spaced for 6’6” 250 lb guys.
Technology / ICE….hands down the ISF. The M3 is simply a victim of age here. The ISF’s nav system (once I got through the learning curve) is far superior and easier to use than the M3 MkIV system. The touchscreen gives a much more modern feel to the nav system, and it makes navigating the map much easier. Oooooh, and I can watch DVD movies too in the factory Mark Levinson system in the ISF. I actually watched the movie Gladiator in the ISF my first day with it.
Interior ergonomics….both cars have their strong points. I like the dedicated HVAC and audio control panels in the M3. All info for HVAC and audio are in your face, and you always know the state of the systems. In the ISF, however, climate control functions and certain radio functions are split between physical buttons and as separate functions on the touchscreen. Although I’m sure I will get used this layout, I still find myself forgetting where to access certain functions. Next, the M3 actually has more usable bins for stowing crap (believe it or not). The ISF’s front tunnel console is entirely taken up by the PRNDL shifter. There is one little bin just ahead of the shifter, but it’s so small I can’t even put sunglasses in it. There is a rather large bin below the center arm rest, but it’s so far back that accessing it makes it a bit of a chore. Also, the door bin in the ISF, is a bit deep to stow small stuff. I do appreciate the tilt-out feature though. The M3 had just the right amount of properly sized bins to store all my stuff.
The winner….it’s a wash, if only I could hand-pick my favorite aspects of each interior…
Exterior / Looks….
I know it’s all subjective, but here are my opinions of the exterior styling.
I like that the ISF has a big-body sedan look to it without actually being big. The way the front fender vents flow into the sideskirts gives the ISF a low, long, mean look. I absolutely love it.
The “power dome” works much better on the M3. The ISF’s power dome is so big that it’s really a power HOOD. From some angles, the ISF’s schnozz looks out of proportion. My favorite views of the ISF are a side view and a rear ¾ view. My favorite view of the E46 M3 was….any view! The M3, visually, is just a very clean and balanced car. The ISF has great exterior styling elements, but they don’t flow as well as the M3’s.
And, hate all you want, but I do love the quad stacked “tips” from the ISF. The rear end of the ISF looks so much meaner than that of the M3. Yeah, those tips are fake, but they give the ISF a really menacing look.
The factory 19” wheels on the ISF look pretty good. I never was a fan of swept / directional spokes on wheels, but the look of the ISFs wheels are growing on me. I just need to do something about that big azz wheel gap at the front.
The winner? It’s hard to choose one. The M3 looks great overall, albeit a dated look. I love the styling elements of the ISF; the fender vents, the quad stacked tips. In the end, I’d go with the ISF’s stying just because it’s newer and looks meaner.
The verdict:
Overall, I'm very pleased with switching over the ISF. I lose some of the raw nature of the E46, and some ultimate handling. But in return, a get a more powerful, more modern car.
So there you have it. That’s my first amateur car review that I’ve written on this forum.
Engine:
The S54 and the IS-F's engines are different animals. I prefer the ISF's obviously for its 83hp and 109 ft-lb advantage over the S54's. The fat torque curve in the ISF is as flat as Kansas; there is a lot of torque available at low RPMs that will lug the S54. This is absolutely great for city driving, and great for passing too as I don’t need to downshift. One thing I miss though is the 7900 rpm redline. The ISF feels like it could use another 200 – 300 rpm to its 6800 rpm redline. BUT, what it lacks in redline revs, it makes up for with a fat torque curve. I like that the ISF’s engine has a much more relaxed and effortless feel to it. Whenever I drive the M3 hard, I always feel like I’m abusing it because the engine is so high-strung. The ISF is definitely faster than the M in a straight line, and it does it in a much more relaxed fashion. There’s no replacement for displacement!
The engine note from the ISF is absolute bliss. I’ve never liked the note of inline sixes. I went through quite a few intake and muffler combos on my E46 before I found the ideal (for me) setup – stock intake with one AR20 and Dinan muffler. From the factory, the engine, intake and exhaust sound perfect to me on the ISF. The sound is intoxicating, and it still leaves my heart pounding every time I punch it.
Winner…..ISF (duh)
Transmission:
Umm.... three pedals and a direct link to the gearbox versus an auto? What do you think? If the ISF came with a manual, I'd get it in a heartbeat. The 8 speed auto box, despite its .10 second shifts, is great, but there's nothing like doing the work myself.
Winner: ISF
j/k M3 6MT of course.
Handling:
Without a doubt, the E46 reigns over the IS-F in handling. I’ve never tracked or raced my E46 M, but I can feel the difference even in street and spirited driving. For beginners, the ISF is some 350 lbs heavier than the E46 M, and it carries a higher percentage of that weight over its front wheels. I do feel the ISF’s nose push a bit more than did the M3, but it’s nothing to the effect of a FWD car’s behavior. The E46 M3 is a beautifully balanced car, no doubts about it. The best way I can describe the ISF’s handling characteristics is imagine the M3’s handling, but with an extra 80 – 100 lbs in the nose of the car.
Second, I don’t feel as “connected” to the road as I did in the M3. The electric steering assist in the ISF works better and feels more natural than other electric assist systems I’ve driven. However, it still has a bit of “artificial” feel to it, mostly notable in parking lots. The steering wheel in the ISF doesn’t communicate what’s going on at the front wheels as much as the M3 did. The positive side to this is that it’s a more relaxed ride. However, I don’t feel completely “at one” with the steering.
Winner…..M3
Interior:
Interiors between these two cars is tough to compare, since the E46’s interior dates back to 2001, and the ISF’s interior was designed in 2006 (as the IS250 / IS350). There are plusses and minuses to each interior, and it would be tough for me to choose either. Here’s why….
To start, I loved the seats in the M3. Although the ISF’s seats look “cooler” with their blue stitching and F emblem and perforated leather, the M3’s seats were a better fit for me. The ISF’s seat bottom doesn’t have quiet enough angle adjustment, and even at the highest angle, I still feel like I’m sitting on a horizontal seat bottom. Also, the ISF headrests cannot be adjusted for angle, only height. One thing I do like about the ISF seats is that the bolts are a little more aggressive, and they hug me better since their not spaced for 6’6” 250 lb guys.
Technology / ICE….hands down the ISF. The M3 is simply a victim of age here. The ISF’s nav system (once I got through the learning curve) is far superior and easier to use than the M3 MkIV system. The touchscreen gives a much more modern feel to the nav system, and it makes navigating the map much easier. Oooooh, and I can watch DVD movies too in the factory Mark Levinson system in the ISF. I actually watched the movie Gladiator in the ISF my first day with it.
Interior ergonomics….both cars have their strong points. I like the dedicated HVAC and audio control panels in the M3. All info for HVAC and audio are in your face, and you always know the state of the systems. In the ISF, however, climate control functions and certain radio functions are split between physical buttons and as separate functions on the touchscreen. Although I’m sure I will get used this layout, I still find myself forgetting where to access certain functions. Next, the M3 actually has more usable bins for stowing crap (believe it or not). The ISF’s front tunnel console is entirely taken up by the PRNDL shifter. There is one little bin just ahead of the shifter, but it’s so small I can’t even put sunglasses in it. There is a rather large bin below the center arm rest, but it’s so far back that accessing it makes it a bit of a chore. Also, the door bin in the ISF, is a bit deep to stow small stuff. I do appreciate the tilt-out feature though. The M3 had just the right amount of properly sized bins to store all my stuff.
The winner….it’s a wash, if only I could hand-pick my favorite aspects of each interior…
Exterior / Looks….
I know it’s all subjective, but here are my opinions of the exterior styling.
I like that the ISF has a big-body sedan look to it without actually being big. The way the front fender vents flow into the sideskirts gives the ISF a low, long, mean look. I absolutely love it.
The “power dome” works much better on the M3. The ISF’s power dome is so big that it’s really a power HOOD. From some angles, the ISF’s schnozz looks out of proportion. My favorite views of the ISF are a side view and a rear ¾ view. My favorite view of the E46 M3 was….any view! The M3, visually, is just a very clean and balanced car. The ISF has great exterior styling elements, but they don’t flow as well as the M3’s.
And, hate all you want, but I do love the quad stacked “tips” from the ISF. The rear end of the ISF looks so much meaner than that of the M3. Yeah, those tips are fake, but they give the ISF a really menacing look.
The factory 19” wheels on the ISF look pretty good. I never was a fan of swept / directional spokes on wheels, but the look of the ISFs wheels are growing on me. I just need to do something about that big azz wheel gap at the front.
The winner? It’s hard to choose one. The M3 looks great overall, albeit a dated look. I love the styling elements of the ISF; the fender vents, the quad stacked tips. In the end, I’d go with the ISF’s stying just because it’s newer and looks meaner.
The verdict:
Overall, I'm very pleased with switching over the ISF. I lose some of the raw nature of the E46, and some ultimate handling. But in return, a get a more powerful, more modern car.
So there you have it. That’s my first amateur car review that I’ve written on this forum.
Last edited by mugenh22a4; 10-26-10 at 04:06 AM.
10-25-10, 06:15 AM
#2
I've seen a few shows comparing the ISF to the M3, and your opinions pretty well match what everyone else has said. Thanks for the candid opinion.
The dealership where I bought my F also had some M6s, 750Li, M3s, and I believe an M5. The M6 was a dream car of mine before the ISF; however, when I got in it, I instantly got that "out-date" interior feel. My buddy's fiance has a 5-series, and he said he loves my interior compared to hers. I checked the 750 as well as the M3, and got the same feeling.
I am dissappointed to hear that the handling is not quite on par with the M-series, but knowing Lexus' engineers, I would not put it past them to match or surpass them in the near future. At least, I hope so.
The dealership where I bought my F also had some M6s, 750Li, M3s, and I believe an M5. The M6 was a dream car of mine before the ISF; however, when I got in it, I instantly got that "out-date" interior feel. My buddy's fiance has a 5-series, and he said he loves my interior compared to hers. I checked the 750 as well as the M3, and got the same feeling.
I am dissappointed to hear that the handling is not quite on par with the M-series, but knowing Lexus' engineers, I would not put it past them to match or surpass them in the near future. At least, I hope so.
10-25-10, 09:01 AM
#3
Ho Motorsports
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I will have to agree with you. Unfortunately, the IS-F doesn't really make you feel connected to the road compared to a M3. It's exponentially better than any other Lexus vehicle.
I was on the verge of getting an E92 M3, however, I can't get over the plain and outdated look of the interior granted it was a 09 model. After all, that's where I'd be spending my time when I drive.
As for the transmission, others will tend to argue that the fastest cars are all automatic. Personally, I'm not going to shift as fast and precise as a computer, but I still prefer a manual. Since it's a sedan, I can live with an automatic. If it was a 2 seater, then only a manual transmission will satisfy me.
Terrance
I was on the verge of getting an E92 M3, however, I can't get over the plain and outdated look of the interior granted it was a 09 model. After all, that's where I'd be spending my time when I drive.
As for the transmission, others will tend to argue that the fastest cars are all automatic. Personally, I'm not going to shift as fast and precise as a computer, but I still prefer a manual. Since it's a sedan, I can live with an automatic. If it was a 2 seater, then only a manual transmission will satisfy me.
Terrance
10-25-10, 01:42 PM
#6
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+1 on everything except that I do like the Lex's 8 speed a lot.
It's perfect for me -- with this much power I like that the computer will shift flawlessly for me every time and even rev match flawlessly gearing down ...
Yes the Lex feels a little disconnected ...... for me it's not a problem.
What I would like to have seen is for it to be about 500 lbs lighter. (at least) even if it meant sacrificing a little luxury and quiet. ( a little I said..)
Great writeup, and coming from a Bimmer owner, a very complimentary one indeed and one that's very much appreciated.....
C.
It's perfect for me -- with this much power I like that the computer will shift flawlessly for me every time and even rev match flawlessly gearing down ...
Yes the Lex feels a little disconnected ...... for me it's not a problem.
What I would like to have seen is for it to be about 500 lbs lighter. (at least) even if it meant sacrificing a little luxury and quiet. ( a little I said..
)Great writeup, and coming from a Bimmer owner, a very complimentary one indeed and one that's very much appreciated.....
C.
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10-25-10, 03:02 PM
#8
Could the OP tell me what size the tires are? They appear too small. Also It appears that the directional wheels are installed correctly in the rear, but on the wrong sides in the front. I could be wrong, but that's how it looks in your picts. Glad you like your F, so do I
Lou
Lou
10-25-10, 03:51 PM
#10
Could the OP tell me what size the tires are? They appear too small. Also It appears that the directional wheels are installed correctly in the rear, but on the wrong sides in the front. I could be wrong, but that's how it looks in your picts. Glad you like your F, so do I
Lou
Lou
245 / 275s will be my next tire size when its comes time to replace them.
Last edited by mugenh22a4; 10-25-10 at 04:02 PM.
10-25-10, 06:29 PM
#11
i agree with T-Rex 06. auto will shift faster than any driver could, but there is a lack of interaction. the fact that the F is a 4 door sedan, i think auto is just fine.
great unbiased comparison by the OP!
great unbiased comparison by the OP!
10-27-10, 08:27 PM
#15
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I own an E90 M3 and recently tested a 2011 IS-F. The M3 handles better but the IS-F is pretty close, and the 2011 IS-F handles MUCH better than the 2008 IS-F. The IS-F has much more power from a stop and the seats and interior of the IS-F are better. I'm still getting a new M3 (with DCT) though.