Post dyno results (JOEZ exhaust + JOEZ intake + Tom's air filter) = NO POWER GAIN!!!!
10-25-10, 06:50 AM
#61
As Joe explained already, 333 RWHP is the norm for an ISF using 91 octane gas. I said before that your baseline dyno looks too generous at 352 RWHP, maybe you did get the expected gains but the baseline dyno is all messed up and that's the problem here.
BTW, you don't need to buy an ODBII scanner, just go to any Autozone and borrow one from them, you'll have to leave an ID in exchange while you use it.
BTW, you don't need to buy an ODBII scanner, just go to any Autozone and borrow one from them, you'll have to leave an ID in exchange while you use it.
10-25-10, 08:40 AM
#62
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sweetbird, clifftrail, montgb please exit this thread. Other members please lets it keep on topic of troubleshooting and assistance for the OP
10-25-10, 09:16 AM
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Thank you all for your support. I will be in the process of troubleshooting this issue with JOEZ. Juanca, like I said, each dyno reads differently based on different factors (dyno type, correction factor, altitude, weather, etc...). This is the most commonly used dynojet, and the numbers were corrected SAE using a smoothing curve set at 5, which is the standard for dyno readings. If a dyno reads low or high, the expected gains for any given mod or combination of thereof, the expected gains should still show on the same dyno.
Last edited by ISFC6; 10-25-10 at 09:36 AM.
10-25-10, 10:12 AM
#64
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The post modifications dyno runs 4 - 7 were done in the same manner as the baseline runs 1 - 3, with obviously the car slightly cooling down for the first run for setting up, a slight cool down on one other run, and a back to back run. We just ran it a 4th time post mods, versus three runs like the first, just to verify that in my case for whatever reason the gains were not there. Of course I know that each subsequent run will read lower to heat soak, if there is no cool down. I am just looking for the gains, no matter what the car baseline at, the gains would need to be accounted over that amount. All dynos may read differently from one another, depending upon location, dyno type, weather, calibration, altitute, etc... But in my case, when you baseline in a dyno, and dyno again after mods in the same dyno, the expected gains need to show up over baseline, with all other variables besides the mods being the same, which they were in my case.
Joe, when I had my Corvettes and other high performance cars, the dyno operators in other locations have always let the car cool down for one run, and do back to back runs as well to see how the numbers were affected by either heat soak or by cool down. I have never seen anyone do 3 back to back runs. The important thing is to compare run to run in the same condition, cool down, and no cool down. In my case, run 1 to 4, 2 to 5, and 3 to 6, which still makes no difference in this case, because there were no gains.
At this point, I am seriously just considering taking a trip to so cal and having Joe take a look at things himself. This would save a lot of back and forth time, and aggravation, and cut to the chase, if you know what I mean. I have PM's Joe about this possibility. Nothing better than the actual person who helped design and bring these products to market, look things over
Your proposal to drive down to SoCal is a good idea at this point..
It’s a great way to log in another 240 miles each way as well.
I am going to work on getting some lift time for you at a Local shop I trust.
I am also going to work on getting a Lexus Tech with hardware, to pull some readings off your ECU.
Hopefully, I can get both done at the same time & place, tentatively this coming Saturday.
Now regarding your dynos, again I will disagree on the method of “engine cool down” between runs.
All it does is create inflated numbers that are not true to normal operating temperatures.
I have been dynoing the Lexus IS line since 2002 and I know what works and want doesn’t.
Cool down runs are simply not accurate and do not represent the best way to make comparisons or true tests.
In the Video I posted in post# 48 of this thread, which directly links straight to post#39 in our R&D thread…
The last run in that video was after a 5 minute shutdown… Our tester F dyno’d a whopping 372 rwhp which showed a gain of 17 rwhp, compared to our normal operating temp dyno showing the 355 rwhp.
This very same car had the base run of 333 rwhp.. So this is why I discount and dislike cool down dyno runs.
Keep in mind if we are able to work out the logistics for this Saturday, I will do my best to trouble shoot any issues directly related to the install that might be causing these issues.
Also, we can attempt to verify what issues might be showing up behind the scenes in the ECU.
At this point it seems you are unable to get me the pictures of the O2 sensor wiring.
This might save you the driving trip, if there is indeed a visible issue.
Also, it looks like you want to keep the Tom's filter in for now.
Might be a good idea at the moment. So that when you come down here I request that you have your OEM Filter on hand as well. This way we might be able to switch back and pull more data with the Stock Filter installed.
However, yo must be open to the fact that the Tom's filter might be causing as issue as well..
There is NO way to know for sure unless we switch it back to stock and get more dynos done.
This of course would only be once we look over the entire install to eliminate any other possibilities.
The only thing I will not have access to on the weekends, is a dyno.
Regards,
Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 10-25-10 at 10:21 AM.
10-25-10, 10:27 AM
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Thank you sir. I am not able to lift the ISF for pictures at this time. If they are willing to do so, I will try to get to the installing Toyota dealership this week, and rule out the O2 sensor wiring issue. As you suggested, I will keep my Tom's filter in place, but also bring my OEM filter with me for us to pull more data. Please confirm if this Saturday will work, and I will make the plans to drive down there. Please recommend a hotel as well, because there may not be sufficient time in one day to drive 500 miles and the time for diagnosis as well.
I saw the dyno from Phil (MPG) that you are referring to, but upon searching, and one link that you posted, there was another member here that dynoed quite a bit higher than he did, both stock and modified with your products, and here in California as well. Each car will react diffirently on different dynos, even on the same state Please see the link below: (his baseline was not too far off from mine)
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...wtq-sae-4.html
Either way, there was basically only one short cool down in my first dyno session, but it did not make that much of a difference in HP/TQ, but just slightly. The first run, I basically drove in, they strapped the car down and set up, and dynoed it (run 1), for the second run, there was a slight cool down (run 2), and the 3rd run was a back to back run, but at that point the engine was heat soaked.
I saw the dyno from Phil (MPG) that you are referring to, but upon searching, and one link that you posted, there was another member here that dynoed quite a bit higher than he did, both stock and modified with your products, and here in California as well. Each car will react diffirently on different dynos, even on the same state
Please see the link below: (his baseline was not too far off from mine)https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...wtq-sae-4.html
Either way, there was basically only one short cool down in my first dyno session, but it did not make that much of a difference in HP/TQ, but just slightly. The first run, I basically drove in, they strapped the car down and set up, and dynoed it (run 1), for the second run, there was a slight cool down (run 2), and the 3rd run was a back to back run, but at that point the engine was heat soaked.
Last edited by ISFC6; 10-25-10 at 10:35 AM.
10-25-10, 11:38 AM
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Thank you sir. I am not able to lift the ISF for pictures at this time. If they are willing to do so, I will try to get to the installing Toyota dealership this week, and rule out the O2 sensor wiring issue. As you suggested, I will keep my Tom's filter in place, but also bring my OEM filter with me for us to pull more data. Please confirm if this Saturday will work, and I will make the plans to drive down there. Please recommend a hotel as well, because there may not be sufficient time in one day to drive 500 miles and the time for diagnosis as well.
I saw the dyno from Phil (MPG) that you are referring to, but upon searching, and one link that you posted, there was another member here that dynoed quite a bit higher than he did, both stock and modified with your products, and here in California as well. Each car will react diffirently on different dynos, even on the same state Please see the link below: (his baseline was not too far off from mine)
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...wtq-sae-4.html
Either way, there was basically only one short cool down in my first dyno session, but it did not make that much of a difference in HP/TQ, but just slightly. The first run, I basically drove in, they strapped the car down and set up, and dynoed it (run 1), for the second run, there was a slight cool down (run 2), and the 3rd run was a back to back run, but at that point the engine was heat soaked.
I saw the dyno from Phil (MPG) that you are referring to, but upon searching, and one link that you posted, there was another member here that dynoed quite a bit higher than he did, both stock and modified with your products, and here in California as well. Each car will react diffirently on different dynos, even on the same state
Please see the link below: (his baseline was not too far off from mine)https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...wtq-sae-4.html
Either way, there was basically only one short cool down in my first dyno session, but it did not make that much of a difference in HP/TQ, but just slightly. The first run, I basically drove in, they strapped the car down and set up, and dynoed it (run 1), for the second run, there was a slight cool down (run 2), and the 3rd run was a back to back run, but at that point the engine was heat soaked.
Yes those pictures are very important at this time.. The sensors can easily be the root of this issue.
I verified this morning with my extremely knowledgeable Lexus Tech friend, that the rich conditions are indeed coming from either the MAF reading or O2 sensors reading.. (as mentioned already)
Once he gets your car plugged in, it will be a whole lot easier to figure out why.
Also, once I get confirmation on the lift time and Tech time I will be able to finalize the details for you.
As a heads up my Lexus Tech will only be free sometime after 4 this Saturday.
(could be earlier or could be later)
But with that in mind, I hope to have some lift time dedicated around the 2-3pm time period.
That very same thread you linked is an excellent thread to mention. That OP experienced a 20 rwhp loss or NO GAIN due to a K&N drop in filter he installed and dyno’d at the same time he did the exhaust.
He actually even LOST -4 rwhp
Unfortunately, he edited his first post after we helped him correct the issue over the phone and diagnose the true issue being the filter for him.
He also updated his original post each time he progressed with additional mods or additional dynos.
Keep in mind he lives in San Diego.
He removed the filter, reset the ecu. Drove a good amount of miles and amazingly within the same week he got back his anticipated 20 rwhp, once he went back for the re-dyno.
I wish he would have keep that original post info for all to see. While posting his progress along the way within the thread.
But here is the dyno to show his documentated issue.
All of these runs were performed with the Stock Intake Pipe:
Blue = IS-F Baseline Bone stock
Red = IS-F w/PTS Exhaust and K&N Drop in Filter
Green = IS-F w/PTS Exhaust and OEM Drop in Filter (MAF Sensor was also cleaned)
https://www.clublexus.com/gallery/da...F_K_NIssue.png
Regards,
Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 10-25-10 at 12:18 PM.
10-25-10, 11:52 AM
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Thanks Joe. Oddly enough, my car started becoming overly rich after around 5800 RPM. I imagine because the PCM pulled timing. These cars do run rich from the factory, as so did mine in stock trim, but it ran richer after the modifications, which is odd. What I could also not understand, is why there were no power gains in the lower-mid range, as in those RPM's, the air fuel ratio was not that rich. From other graphs with your products, I saw that they gains were evident by 3000 RPM.
Please PM me the address of where we are to meet, and also a couple of hotel recommendations in the area, as it appears that we will be working on the mid-late afternoon, and I will need to spend the night on Saturday. Being from Cetral Cali, I am not familiar with that area.
Please PM me the address of where we are to meet, and also a couple of hotel recommendations in the area, as it appears that we will be working on the mid-late afternoon, and I will need to spend the night on Saturday. Being from Cetral Cali, I am not familiar with that area.
10-25-10, 01:10 PM
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That kind of help doesn't come every day, ISFC6.....
Kudos for helping out Joe.......good luck you guys with finding the solution, and that's golden, Joe, that a Lex-tech might be available......
Colin.
Kudos for helping out Joe.......good luck you guys with finding the solution, and that's golden, Joe, that a Lex-tech might be available......
Colin.
10-25-10, 02:01 PM
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10-25-10, 05:10 PM
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Definitively following this thread as I have the same set up Joe's intake and exhaust plus the tom's filter. When I dyno'd my car the rwhp wasn't as much as other's have posted but temp was around 97 degrees. I did gained like 10 rwhp so I'm interested to see if the filter is affecting the air fuel ratio.
10-25-10, 07:03 PM
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Please PM me the address of where we are to meet, and also a couple of hotel recommendations in the area, as it appears that we will be working on the mid-late afternoon, and I will need to spend the night on Saturday. Being from Cetral Cali, I am not familiar with that area.
PM has been sent with some tenative details for this Saturday.
Had to modify the weekend schedule to get this all planned out for all involved.
Best Regards,
Joe Z
10-25-10, 07:14 PM
#73
It astounds me the level of customer service and professionalism Joe shows to everyone who purchases his products. I have never seen any manufacturer stand by his product or for that matter go out his way to help someone out. Joe showed me the same level of care with me also, even when the issues were with other products, not even his own. Joe, you d'ha man!...Darshana S.
10-25-10, 07:16 PM
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10-25-10, 08:19 PM
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It astounds me the level of customer service and professionalism Joe shows to everyone who purchases his products. I have never seen any manufacturer stand by his product or for that matter go out his way to help someone out. Joe showed me the same level of care with me also, even when the issues were with other products, not even his own. Joe, you d'ha man!...Darshana S.