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Was installing the differential bushings a difficult job?
Depends. If you are experienced with bushings and have a 20 ton press, no, it's not too hard. If this is your first rodeo, you will hate it. It is very challenging if you have not done this before, especially the front bushing. The blog entries at Figs are invaluable aids to successfully completing the tasks.
I am not considering the steering ECU update, I think it is mandatory with 255s on the front. My wife will complain to no end the first time she drives the car. It will be completed shortly.
Latest alignment attached. The car is driving perfectly, no pull left or right, and with the LSD and bushings, handling is nothing short of transformed. I'll be watching the wear to see if I am in a happy spot, but I have a little bit of toe out dialed into this to help the car turn.
So now that Im tracking the car is this the best alignment for the car? Im not concernded about tire wear etc. Just want this big ***** to hug the turns. lol I'm on BR coil-overs, TRD rear sway and RR steering bushings but that's it suspension wise. Thanks guys. My current "factory aliment" is chewing up the outside edges of the tires at the track.
So now that Im tracking the car is this the best alignment for the car? Im not concernded about tire wear etc. Just want this big ***** to hug the turns. lol I'm on BR coil-overs, TRD rear sway and RR steering bushings but that's it suspension wise. Thanks guys. My current "factory aliment" is chewing up the outside edges of the tires at the track.
Lobux, you have my sincere gratitude for creating this thread. Having just bought an F with some terrible inside wear, I came to class and read all 20 pages of your journey. Funny enough, I was just going to head to my alignment guy and tell him to zero out the toe like I do with my E46M but I figured that wouldn't work out so well on the F, go figure.
Rafi keeps suggesting the 2.5 degrees of camber front and rear. Any thoughts?
I hadn't seen this until now. -2.5 is a good starting point. If you can get information from the tire manufacturer about suggested camber, it would be better. -2.5 is a rule of thumb until you measure temperature across the tread after a session and fine tune.
I don't run zero toe anymore. I run 1/16" toe out all the time. I know it wears the inside faster, but I like the way the car turns a lot better, and with the stiffer LCA bushings (I have front and rear replaced), I am not getting absurdly short tire wear. I am also running 255/35/19 PSS in the front on the late model wheels. I would add some camber, but the only right way I see to do that is with FIGS upper control arms. I don't trust the adjustable upper balljoints in those sheet metal UCAs to stay where I put them.
I hadn't seen this until now. -2.5 is a good starting point. If you can get information from the tire manufacturer about suggested camber, it would be better. -2.5 is a rule of thumb until you measure temperature across the tread after a session and fine tune.
I don't run zero toe anymore. I run 1/16" toe out all the time. I know it wears the inside faster, but I like the way the car turns a lot better, and with the stiffer LCA bushings (I have front and rear replaced), I am not getting absurdly short tire wear. I am also running 255/35/19 PSS in the front on the late model wheels. I would add some camber, but the only right way I see to do that is with FIGS upper control arms. I don't trust the adjustable upper balljoints in those sheet metal UCAs to stay where I put them.
I run -2.0 all around and it's been very good to me. On R888's on hot day and hot laps my temperature differs around 5* between in and out, also depending on the track, I try to dial in the temp and tire pressure. My base temp that I start my R888's is 32 PSI and depending on the track configuration I dial in my pressure from there.
I had SPC Adj. Balljoint on my car and I'm more on the aggressive side when it comes to driving the F at the track, I had it slip camber on me twice, feels like someone threw a bunch of banana skins on the road and then FIGS came to the rescue, coming from Evo/STI, I never trusted Megan Racing and product they come up with, however, Figs UCA was a work of art.
Below are the pics of my R888's wear, I did drive it on the road + hit if I'm not mistaken around 4-5 track days on them.
Set toe out to -0.04 degrees both sides. I've been running this same setting with the Figs 90 durometer polyurethane bushings for quite some time with great success. The difference with the solid bushings can't be understated - NVH is way up and control is a quantum leap better. I relubed the front poly bushings at the same time as they didn't get the right kind of love the first time they were installed. Plenty of grease in all the right spots this time. After alignment two things were very noticeable - straight line braking is now very straight line. No feeling at all of any wander whatsoever. Second is small adjustments in the steering wheel are immediately met with small responses, exactly the way one would hope. The one downside is I now have a camber imbalance with almost perfect caster. This is also not the end of the changes, but that's a different post. Suffice it to say, if you are tracking your car, you'll love the solid bearings.
Great effort documenting subtle differences. I may have read through this some previously, but I just spent the last day reading it again.
there’s a bit of a signal to noise problem I’m going to summarize what I think your conclusions are. Please correct them if needed.
Factory spec has a range and within that range are picking between better turn in or better tire ware. 1/16”out for track and 0 for tire ware.
Adding stiffer bushings gives improved ware at the 1/16” out.
I didn’t see where you changed the front lower control arm bushings on the front suspension. I probably missed it. Was that an interim step? The thread kinda goes cold for a while.
Would you suggest 0 as a start for someone with poly LCA bushings and primarily interested in tire life?
Great effort documenting subtle differences. I may have read through this some previously, but I just spent the last day reading it again.
there’s a bit of a signal to noise problem I’m going to summarize what I think your conclusions are. Please correct them if needed.
Factory spec has a range and within that range are picking between better turn in or better tire ware. 1/16”out for track and 0 for tire ware.
Adding stiffer bushings gives improved ware at the 1/16” out.
I didn’t see where you changed the front lower control arm bushings on the front suspension. I probably missed it. Was that an interim step? The thread kinda goes cold for a while.
Would you suggest 0 as a start for someone with poly LCA bushings and primarily interested in tire life?
Set toe out to -0.04 degrees both sides. I've been running this same setting with the Figs 90 durometer polyurethane bushings for quite some time with great success. The difference with the solid bushings can't be understated - NVH is way up and control is a quantum leap better. I relubed the front poly bushings at the same time as they didn't get the right kind of love the first time they were installed. Plenty of grease in all the right spots this time. After alignment two things were very noticeable - straight line braking is now very straight line. No feeling at all of any wander whatsoever. Second is small adjustments in the steering wheel are immediately met with small responses, exactly the way one would hope. The one downside is I now have a camber imbalance with almost perfect caster. This is also not the end of the changes, but that's a different post. Suffice it to say, if you are tracking your car, you'll love the solid bearings.
Congrats on the upgrade. I saw these and was intrigued but I can't stand NVH these days. Can certainly appreciate what they can do on the track however. I still may entertain the Figs 80 durometer bushings one day.
I'm still battling my high speed instability/wandering problem with zero front toe. Earlier in this thread you mentioned a 1/4 turn on the rod ends could get me to about 1/16" total toe out. Is this lengthening or shortening the rods?
Congrats on the upgrade. I saw these and was intrigued but I can't stand NVH these days. Can certainly appreciate what they can do on the track however. I still may entertain the Figs 80 durometer bushings one day.
I'm still battling my high speed instability/wandering problem with zero front toe. Earlier in this thread you mentioned a 1/4 turn on the rod ends could get me to about 1/16" total toe out. Is this lengthening or shortening the rods?
Not exactly what I said. From post #13 - FYI - one full turn equates to 3mm toe change on the side you adjust. Whether it is toe in or toe out depends on which direction you turn the tie rod, but regardless you'll see a change in either direction of the same magnitude if you turn both the same and tighten the lock nuts. FWIW, the rod uses a 14mm wrench, the locknut is 17mm and there are 17mm flats on the tie rod end to hold it in place (neutral) while you tighten the lock nut, but because the tie rod has a ball joint at the tie rod steering rack end, holding the tie rod end while tightening isn't a big deal.
A quarter turn is 0.0297" in which ever direction you turn. If you adjusted both sides in the same direction (in or out), you'd have a total toe change of 0.0594". Given rubber bushings, I'd call that 0.060" or so, or pretty close to 1/16" change.
08-11-15, 04:25 PM
