Dyno Comparisons: K&N Typhoon Intake vs Stock vs DIY Flap Mod
05-24-10, 06:03 PM
#16
I've been thinking of why I got the results I did and trying to figure out why there was a loss of power with the K&N Intake. Is it too much air that eventually the ECU compensates and brings it down to power levels that it's more familiar with? Or is it a poor intake design? Or even a combo of both? Most likely a combo of both...sucking in more hot air as well as the ECU compensating...likely by pulling timing. This is likely accomplised by the MAF sensor picking up the changes in the intake and telling the ECU to compensate for the changes, and also the reason why the JoeZ intake is the only one that has consistantly made power...the changes to the intake are made AFTER the MAF. If this theory holds true, chances are with time, even the DIY Flap mod may trigger the ECU to compensate decrease power like all the other intakes. Right now, my car feels great with the DIY Intake mod, but I've only logged about 100 miles since I did it on Saturday on the dyno. And along with this theory, ANY increase in airflow that maybe sensed by the MAF may trigger a negative change; this includes better flowing drop in air fliters like the TOM's and AFe Dry Flow filters. Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here. What are your thoughts?..Darshana S...
05-24-10, 06:26 PM
#18
My thoughts are that you saw an increase in power with the DYI mod because the dyno was performed with the hood up. In my case my times were slower with the DYI mod because I lost power due to running the car at the track with the hood down (of course!), hence the 2nd. stage intake was sucking hot air at the lower powerband. Am I making any sense?
05-24-10, 06:32 PM
#19
My thoughts are that you saw an increase in power with the DYI mod because the dyno was performed with the hood up. In my case my times were slower with the DYI mod because I lost power due to running the car at the track with the hood down (of course!), hence the 2nd. stage intake was sucking hot air at the lower powerband. Am I making any sense?
Juanca, when you went to the track and did the DIY Intake Mod, were your factory Engine Bay Dress Up pieces in place? Also, did you do the Intake Mod with the Vacuum Cap method or just pull the harness to the actuatory?
05-28-10, 01:50 PM
#21
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To the OP....
I ran into this thread and the one started on the other Lexus forum. Our R&D team have taken interest in the testing performed and would like to offer you to come out to our facility in Riverside. We would like to do similar dyno testing and compare results. You are fairly local and it may be of interest to you.
One thing I do want to point out is that the testing was done with an AEM filter on our Intake System. Our Intake is designed to work with our filter, especially with the IS-F we had to play with the design of the filter to achieve the best results. Even though the size and is comparable, the design is different. Also, I notice you have an exhaust system, which will change the power results. Our testing was done on stock vehicles.
Please PM me if you would like to come to our facility and see our extensive testing and engineering that goes into every intake system. You will be more than welcome to report back to the forum about your visit.
Thanks,
K&N Marketing
I ran into this thread and the one started on the other Lexus forum. Our R&D team have taken interest in the testing performed and would like to offer you to come out to our facility in Riverside. We would like to do similar dyno testing and compare results. You are fairly local and it may be of interest to you.
One thing I do want to point out is that the testing was done with an AEM filter on our Intake System. Our Intake is designed to work with our filter, especially with the IS-F we had to play with the design of the filter to achieve the best results. Even though the size and is comparable, the design is different. Also, I notice you have an exhaust system, which will change the power results. Our testing was done on stock vehicles.
Please PM me if you would like to come to our facility and see our extensive testing and engineering that goes into every intake system. You will be more than welcome to report back to the forum about your visit.
Thanks,
K&N Marketing
05-28-10, 03:48 PM
#24
To the OP....
I ran into this thread and the one started on the other Lexus forum. Our R&D team have taken interest in the testing performed and would like to offer you to come out to our facility in Riverside. We would like to do similar dyno testing and compare results. You are fairly local and it may be of interest to you.
One thing I do want to point out is that the testing was done with an AEM filter on our Intake System. Our Intake is designed to work with our filter, especially with the IS-F we had to play with the design of the filter to achieve the best results. Even though the size and is comparable, the design is different. Also, I notice you have an exhaust system, which will change the power results. Our testing was done on stock vehicles.
Please PM me if you would like to come to our facility and see our extensive testing and engineering that goes into every intake system. You will be more than welcome to report back to the forum about your visit.
Thanks,
K&N Marketing
I ran into this thread and the one started on the other Lexus forum. Our R&D team have taken interest in the testing performed and would like to offer you to come out to our facility in Riverside. We would like to do similar dyno testing and compare results. You are fairly local and it may be of interest to you.
One thing I do want to point out is that the testing was done with an AEM filter on our Intake System. Our Intake is designed to work with our filter, especially with the IS-F we had to play with the design of the filter to achieve the best results. Even though the size and is comparable, the design is different. Also, I notice you have an exhaust system, which will change the power results. Our testing was done on stock vehicles.
Please PM me if you would like to come to our facility and see our extensive testing and engineering that goes into every intake system. You will be more than welcome to report back to the forum about your visit.
Thanks,
K&N Marketing
First of all, it's nice to have you guys on these forums and to know that you are willing to stand by your product. I'd definately be interested to come down to your facility discuss the finding I got...please keep in mind due to my job my time is very limited but I'll do the best I can.
One thing I want to make clear to EVERYONE; K&N as well as everyone on these forums...my intent on the testing I conducted was not to disprove the K&N Intake made less power than the stock intake (on the contrary, I was thinking that the K&N Intake would make more power!), it was just to put objective data on the table so people could be informed of the results, whatever they may have been. I use a K&N Filter on my Supra TT and swear by it so I have no negative feeling towards K&N whatsoever.
In either case, I'm happy to see K&N standing by their product and I'll contact you guys about getting together and maybe doing some testing of your product at your facility...Darshana S...
05-28-10, 08:34 PM
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If K & N or any other venders are serious about proving their devices, they should have independent testings instead of inviting people to their labs. their tests may be true and accurate, but will never have the credibility of independent labs.
05-29-10, 05:00 AM
#26
really?
The reason I say this is simple, if there is NO MESSING with the dyno (i.e. screwing with correction factors, and the like) and runs are performed back to back, the results are what they are. We all know one dyno does not read exactly as the next does, and we all know that one run will vary slightly compared to the next, that being said let's line them up and let the chips fall where they may. I have one of K&N 's kits on my car and LOVE IT!, The sound alone is straight SAVAGE 
. However I can say that after sitting in bumper to bumper you can feel a difference in power, I am sure this is due to the face that hot air is getting into the intake due to the gaps in the shielding. K&N needs to be commended for stepping up here and saying "Please" bring your car to us so we can conduct testing (on their dime mind you) at our facility, with you present, and please feel free to share the results with your fellow CL members. I can NOT remember another product manufacturer on this boards stepping up in this manner?
06-25-10, 11:12 PM
#27
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I'm glad to see KNN's response... and Darshana... I was going to say the same thing, about your KNN using the AFE Dry flow filter. AFE site even shows a 100 to 200 CFM LOSS in air flow when compared to their own 'oiled' filter (like a K&N).
You also still want to get to the bottom of the DIY testing... so what better opportunity to do that at the KNN Facility. (They have a Filter that fits as a drop in too... I read somewhere... it's a VW replacement filter?)
Had you had the 'entire' KNN assembly the results I think would be more conclusive.
And I'm still confused as EVER if the DIY mod really does anything but sound cool. Although I can't see 'more air' ever 'hurting' HP/TQ... but we've just seen results from Both Sides of the fence...
Keep us updated!
Dave
You also still want to get to the bottom of the DIY testing... so what better opportunity to do that at the KNN Facility. (They have a Filter that fits as a drop in too... I read somewhere... it's a VW replacement filter?)
Had you had the 'entire' KNN assembly the results I think would be more conclusive.
And I'm still confused as EVER if the DIY mod really does anything but sound cool. Although I can't see 'more air' ever 'hurting' HP/TQ... but we've just seen results from Both Sides of the fence...
Keep us updated!
Dave
06-26-10, 12:13 AM
#28
I'm glad to see KNN's response... and Darshana... I was going to say the same thing, about your KNN using the AFE Dry flow filter. AFE site even shows a 100 to 200 CFM LOSS in air flow when compared to their own 'oiled' filter (like a K&N).
You also still want to get to the bottom of the DIY testing... so what better opportunity to do that at the KNN Facility. (They have a Filter that fits as a drop in too... I read somewhere... it's a VW replacement filter?)
Had you had the 'entire' KNN assembly the results I think would be more conclusive.
And I'm still confused as EVER if the DIY mod really does anything but sound cool. Although I can't see 'more air' ever 'hurting' HP/TQ... but we've just seen results from Both Sides of the fence...
Keep us updated!
Dave
You also still want to get to the bottom of the DIY testing... so what better opportunity to do that at the KNN Facility. (They have a Filter that fits as a drop in too... I read somewhere... it's a VW replacement filter?)
Had you had the 'entire' KNN assembly the results I think would be more conclusive.
And I'm still confused as EVER if the DIY mod really does anything but sound cool. Although I can't see 'more air' ever 'hurting' HP/TQ... but we've just seen results from Both Sides of the fence...
Keep us updated!
Dave
K&N did bring up a good point that I do have a exhaust that likely changes the intake maybe designed for. And this may also account for why the DIY intake mod yeilded better results for me than those with a stock exhaust. I think for those with a exhaust, the increase in airflow from the DIY Intake Mod is just enough (not too much as the K&N Intake that the ECU eventually compensates for) to yield a increase in torque and HP as show with my testing. However, those with a stock exhaust, the DIY may loose torque and or HP because that's what the stock intake setup is designed for (as shown by Caymandive testing). Once again, this is all theory but doing this testing and the current setup that I'm driving around with.
For those who have done the DIY Intake mod, please chime in...positive or negative, I'd like to hear how you car feels initially and after 2 to 3 fill ups(by then the ECU likely have compensated for the change in airflow).
Darshana S...
Last edited by Supraman16; 06-26-10 at 12:16 AM.
10-30-10, 09:25 PM
#29
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I PM'ed K&N in regards to retesting at their facility but they haven't replied back. But in regards to the AFe Dry Flow filter in combo with the K&N Intake System...when I was driving around with the supplied K&N Filter the car felt sluggish as if there was a lack of torque. I thought it maybe due to the oil from the filter contaminating the MAF. This is why I decided to put the AFe Filter on. WHen I put it on, I did so without reseting the ECU and cleaned the MAF... I immediately I felt a recovery in torque/HP. I think that part of this was that the indeed more restrictive AFe Filter brought down the airflow more towards what the stock ECU was accustomed to, as well as possibly a clean MAF.
K&N did bring up a good point that I do have a exhaust that likely changes the intake maybe designed for. And this may also account for why the DIY intake mod yeilded better results for me than those with a stock exhaust. I think for those with a exhaust, the increase in airflow from the DIY Intake Mod is just enough (not too much as the K&N Intake that the ECU eventually compensates for) to yield a increase in torque and HP as show with my testing. However, those with a stock exhaust, the DIY may loose torque and or HP because that's what the stock intake setup is designed for (as shown by Caymandive testing). Once again, this is all theory but doing this testing and the current setup that I'm driving around with.
For those who have done the DIY Intake mod, please chime in...positive or negative, I'd like to hear how you car feels initially and after 2 to 3 fill ups(by then the ECU likely have compensated for the change in airflow).
Darshana S...
K&N did bring up a good point that I do have a exhaust that likely changes the intake maybe designed for. And this may also account for why the DIY intake mod yeilded better results for me than those with a stock exhaust. I think for those with a exhaust, the increase in airflow from the DIY Intake Mod is just enough (not too much as the K&N Intake that the ECU eventually compensates for) to yield a increase in torque and HP as show with my testing. However, those with a stock exhaust, the DIY may loose torque and or HP because that's what the stock intake setup is designed for (as shown by Caymandive testing). Once again, this is all theory but doing this testing and the current setup that I'm driving around with.
For those who have done the DIY Intake mod, please chime in...positive or negative, I'd like to hear how you car feels initially and after 2 to 3 fill ups(by then the ECU likely have compensated for the change in airflow).
Darshana S...