Originally Posted by 8speed

Yet another European journalist who hates anything from Japan and strokes BMW's like he's a 12 year old boy looking at a Penthouse magazine


Hey Jeremy the exhaust tips aren't fake, they are real exhaust tips that just aren't connected much like the Audi R8 and Lambo Murcielago, and act as a diffuser when your precious M3 quits at 155 and the IS-F keeps pushing to 170+ mph.

Hey Jeremy learn how to *****ing drive, I've gone against a new M3 stop light to stop light and was never beat............NEVER!

The reason why the new M3 killed you around the track was because you're a miserable driver! Even the boneheads over at 5th gear could stay within one tenth of a second around their track.....and they are worse drivers than you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRDL5hiEMto

And the transmission doesn't have to make up its mind instead of you, that's what manual mode is for you pathetic excuse for a journalist. You don't use all 8 gears on the track in manual, only cruising on the freeway where you average 29 mpg on long distance road trips avoiding the dreaded gas guzzler tax (only car in class not implementing the tax). The title of this thread should be unless your car is a BMW don't even bother going out in public because your car sucks!


Other than that I thought it was riveting journalism. Thanks for sharing

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

the is-f is what you'd expect given how it was developed by enthusiasts as a back room project at lexus, who wanted to drive the snot out of it, and maybe they're fans of subaru wrx's or mitsubishi evo's, given the kinda tacky plastic add-ons and uncompromising (stiff) ride.

the m3 is simply a successor to a loooong line of M3's and i think bmw knows most owners have to live with the car in boring driving too. the prior m3 was STIIIFFFF, and prior ones to that were definitely pretty uncompromising too! the latest is somehow more refined yet still has the BALANCED COMBINATION of steering, transmission, brakes, suspension and weight distribution that Lexus has a way to go to catch up to.

nevertheless, the is-f is a more than a toe in the water, it's half of lexus' leg.

Originally Posted by kt22cliff

E90/E92 M3 is a faster and quicker car around any track vs IS-F - with enough margin that anyone who's driven around a track would know it. I've driven E90 M3 6MT and E46 SMG at Limerock on a same day and on that day there were two IS-F's running around. IS-F were slower than E46 on that day at Limerock and E90 was WAY - we are talking 5 seconds on a 1.5mile course - ahead of both E46 and IS-F.

Now if someone likes/dislikes styling/iDrive/fake tips/etc, those are all subjective where people can argue until cows come home it will never end. But as far as being a faster/quicker car, you are what your lap times says you are. And for people who will surely bring up "but you don't know who was driving", C&D or Motortrend did comparison between some 20 cars at VIR grand course and if I remember right IS-F was slower by something like 9 seconds behind M3 and SLOWER than BMW 135i. 1 or 2 seconds, you can argue hey they didn't know how to drive slushbox or that mag is always biased against Lexus etc etc, 9 second gap is beyond that.

Originally Posted by 8speed

I don't even know where to begin with this statement other than it's pure conjecture! If an e46 (which I have owned) beats my IS-F around the track I will sell it immediately and join Ace Ventura at the temple with the Wachiti tribe.



Um that is not an IS-F behind the M3 (looks like an STI) look at the headrests on the seats! You don't even know anything about your own pics you're posting.....WTF?

A reworked IS? You can't be serious? The IS-F has absolutely nothng in common with the IS and is a completely different car from suspension, brakes, F1 composition...........I would like to see the result of a "reworked" IS350..........it most definitely would not resemble an IS-F

Go ahead and put bolt-ons on an IS and meet me and my F at the track and we will see how close of a race that will be

Originally Posted by ffpower

As much as I like the IS F (which I like it A LOT) I have to disagree.

Few Lexus engineers, on their spare own time, basically took a stock 2IS, reworked it, gave it a different suspension, V8 engine, and brakes. It was purely a research project and wasn't even funded by Lexus from the beginning. However, since their work is so good, corporate Lexus then decided the car is ready and suitable for prime time, thus the birth of the IS F.

M3 and C63 on the other hand, were completely engineered from the beginning of the process of the regular 3-series and C-class.

With that being said, for what it is, the IS F is an AMAZING car and I wouldn't mind to own one someday, as matter of fact, since it is selling at well below invoice, I might trade in for one if the price is right.

As for IS350 vs. IS F on the track, I kind of agree with the poster who said on a short track, an IS350 with brakes and suspension upgrade can hang around with the IS F. My tracking experience is limited to the SOW and California speedway's road track. As far as SOW (many corners and very very short front straightaway) goes, IS F's higher power is going to have limited factor or no factor at all so I can see it being a drivers' race between an upgraded IS350 and a stock IS F.

Originally Posted by 8speed

Don't I feel like a tool for buying an IS-F when I could have just gone out and purchased an IS350 for thousands less, adding suspension of course and have a car that "doesn't feel that much different" than an IS-F

I don't have to comment further on this topic, and I'm sure IS-F owners will back me on this. The IS-F is on another planet entirely than an IS350! End of discussion!

Originally Posted by ffpower

For the record...

I don't think M3 and C63 are god almighty either (I've driven both, e46 M3 and C63 AMG). As matter of fact I'll take the IS F over the C63, the new C AMG is cheap on the inside and have a light and somewhat numb steering compare to the IS F.

Like others have said, IS F is an excellent effort for Lexus' first super sedan and a non-disputable contender to the M3 and C63. Take a look at the first-ever C-class AMG and the IS F then you'll see what I am saying.

Originally Posted by 8speed

I have been reading some crazy BS in CL about how an IS350 with suspension is no different than an IS-F

So let's here from the IS-F owners in here, what are your thoughts? Those who have owned/driven both cars (myself included) I would especially like to hear your insights

Originally Posted by lexusscturbo

An IS-F is not even a completly done up car. Its an IS2/350 that's been reworked.
You give a IS350 a Limited Slip- Just some boltons (I/H/E); coilovers; Sway Bars; and a rear STB (The rear crumple zones on a 2IS aren't very stiff)...
And on a Medium-Short sized track vs an ISF its going to be one close race

The E92 M3 is not even engineered minus a few facial similarities as E92 3 series.

Originally Posted by blk_is300

I expect E90/92 M3 to be a much better car than the IS-F as I have both IS350 and E90 330i. I drove the IS-F on the track before and it doesn't feel that much different from my IS350 on coilovers other than F's torquey motor. My stock 330i is much more fun to drive than my IS350 even though it's underpowered. If I'm spending $50~$65K for a car that I'll be driving everyday for the next 4 or 5 years, M3 will be the only candidate, regardless IS-F being at the bottom of my budget while M3 at the top.

Originally Posted by DRE1615

I'm not sure what all the insecurity is about all of a sudden. The IS-F and the IS350 have completely different design intents. Pretty much every aspect of the 350 is exaggerated in the ISF, from the brakes to the engine to the bulging body lines etc... I think it is safe to say any experienced driver in a 350 will keep up and pass a amatuer in an ISF. Heck, when I did the ISF driving event through Lexus, I could barely keep up with the driver in the GS350 while in my ISF. Let's remember we're all here with a common interest, Lexus, same team fellas.

The M3 is truly an amazing car and IMO even a better track car (still way ahead of F and AMG). But how many people really track any of these cars? Maybe 2-5%?

Originally Posted by j8123

I will throw my thoughts in here... Just about any car with a good performance starting point could best even some of the so called super cars out there. With the proper alignment set-up and suspension pieces a freaking miata could do some major damage to any of the cars mentioned above. Don't get me wrong there is something to be said about purchasing a great performance car to begin with, but when you get down to the facts I come to one conclusion. All it takes is the correct set-up and driver to make a car fast in the corners. So, yes a properly set-up is350 with a good driver is more than able to put a beat down on a poor driver in an IS-F on the track. It is just the facts. I own an F and previously owned quite a few tuner cars (EVO8, SRT-4, MR2, Supra, etc) and all of them have the potential to beat my F and frankly two of them for sure would beat it in the straights and in the corners. I purchased the F for that fact that it is something fun to drive right out of the box. I am getting to old to spend every weekend retuning my car for the weather or mixing meth in the garage for the next week of driving....lol

Originally Posted by lexusscturbo

I don't want to drive off the wrong end as Henry stated be constructive..From an engineering standpoint the 335i vs M3 are different vehicles..From the unibody structure and beyond...
Back to the ISF..Its a great car just not "M3 Caliper"-if Lexus had R&D the car from the start to be a ISF it would've been even better