timeToy

iTrader: (11)

Hi, Some of us are going to the track

I will at Skip Barber Oct 1-2 driving their IS-F fast on the track, I will be at Fontana on Nov 21-23 driving my IS-F fast on the track, I will be at the Barona strip a couple of time until the end of the year.

And the IS-F is my daily driver... (and I do not have a schedule for '09 yet...)

Oh and the real reason of the b1tching and moaning here is that the IS-F is definitely not represented in a fair light, this is a large publication that have a lot of circulation and the sales of the IS-F will be severely impacted by this "test". For us, owners, it is very important if the IS-F do not perform in the showrooms, then Lexus may reconsider it's engagement. I'm not saying that C&D is killing the IS-F, but with gas prices, the state of the economy and the unknown introduced by the elections, the C&D slap in the face is not a huge positive for the IS-F and Lexus's F efforts...

rdgdawg

Honda Element

CDNROCKIES

This test has me really confused? How does a car (Cobalt) that has 116 hp and 110 lb/ft less of torque that does 0-60 in 5.7s and the 1/4 mile in 14.1s beat the other cars listed? I understand that it is lighter, but this doesn't make any sense to me?

Anybody have an idea? (maybe they drove it in full automatic mode without the sport mode and full traction control on???)

And 9 seconds slower than the M3? From every test and drag slip posted, they should be closer than this?

I didn't buy mine to race or be the fastest car on the road, but this test seems a little fishy, and I do agree that it could definitely hurt sales and therefore our resale values.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

My wife chases down and passes new M3's in her 10 year old E36 M3, and also passed a Porsche Carrerra GT in her old E30 track car (that one was due to driver of the Porsche, lol). Granted her M3 is track prepped, stripped, etc.

VIR like many tracks isn't just about HP and straight line - it's also about balance and momentum. A high HP car can be unstoppable on the straight but still get slaughtered by a nimble, lighter car through the turns. The lighter 'momentum cars' can carry more speed out of the turn and sometimes get better lap times around the track.

I doubt they ran these long enough for brake fade to become a big consideration here.

timeToy

iTrader: (11)

Let's check how the IS-F stacks versus the E92 M3 and the C63 on other tracks and in other hands:
http://www.fastestlaps.com/raceways.html

Nordschleife: IS-F 8:18 | M3 (E92) 8:05 | No C63 time | IS-F/M3 2.68%
Tsukuba: IS-F 1:07.087 | M3 (E92) 1:05.817 | C63 1:07.373 | IS-F/M3 1.93%
Vairano: IS-F 1:22.112 | M3 (E92) 1:20.910 | C63 1:21.641 | IS-F/M3 1.48%
Inta: IS-F 1:12.77 | M3 (E92) 1:12.36 | No C63 time | IS-F/M3 0.50%
Hockenheim Short: IS-F 1:15.8 | M3 (E92) 1:14.3 | C63 1:15.2 | IS-F/M3 2.00%
Hockenheim GP: IS-F 2:04.45 | M3 (E90) 2:02.71| C63 2:04.59 | IS-F/M3 1.42%

SportAuto: IS-F 1:30.9 | M3 (E92) 1:32.4 | No C63 time | IS-F 1.65% faster than M3

and the infamous C&D time:
VIR: IS-F 3:14.0 | M3 (E92) 3:05.6 | C63 3:06.5 | IS-F/M3 4.52%

As you can see the IS-F, albeit a bit slower than the M3, is always within 0.50% to 2.68% of the M3 time, except for the C&D test where it is 4.52% slower.

Based on this, the IS-F time at VIR should realistically be around 2% of the M3 time, or 3:09.3, which put the IS-F at the 19th place behind the Lotus Elise S2 and the C63 and in front of the Cayman S and M6. Definitely more where it should be !

dkaplan435

To say that I'm disappointed w/ c&d is almost an understatement because I figure they’ll always come up w/ some stupid report like the one this thread references. But then I would never buy it because I don’t respect any of their findings or opinions.

As to their hurting potential sales of the IS-F, I don’t think it will have as much of an impact as some might think. Reason being (in my opinion) is that people who are in the market for these types of cars don’t rely on advice from a rag like c&d.

They do their research, they drive the cars they are interested in and they make their purchases. Of course some are like me (I put a deposit on the IS-F almost exactly 1 year before I picked it up).

Prior to Lexus I drove BMW’s for many years. I sure as hell never picked up a c&d or for that matter motor trend when doing my research. Same w/ the IS350 or the IS-F.

If anything I read and value the opinion of the British car magazines, they seem to have a much more intelligent way of reviewing cars.

Their reviewers actually know how to drive.

kickhard

Come on. Is C&D believable anymore? Hell no. The only reason I look at the Mag is for the pictures. The article and test data have to much bias toward BMW for it to be worth a damn. The ISF is not the only car this year to have suffered C&D bias. Seems like alot of japanese makes dont fair well with C&D

BigMikeISF

Dang timetoy, those are interesting times and help put things in perspective I agree with you, I think that position is more were the F should be, but who knows how they got their results

When I read C&D I take everything they say lightly

javyLSU

iTrader: (21)

People are going to continue to be surprised with the CTS-V. Cadillac is trying to break people's preconceived notions about performance in much the same fashion Lexus is, only Cadillac is doing it BIG with the CTS-V. This thing is a monster, and people won't realize it until the see the taillights getting smaller. M3 people included.

Javier

CrazyMPG

iTrader: (4)

haha how does it stack up against the GTR?...will the GTR still keep up?..lol

cls552isf

It appears that the car in the test is owned by an individual, judging from the regular liscence plate and the lexus of queens frame. Perhaps the car had a bent rim or some kind of problem? Another thought I had was that this car was equiped with the less than ideal Bridgestone RE050s rather than the pilots, I have the reo5os and am satisfied for street use, but in a competitive test like this the car should have had the best possible tire. Either way we were shafted on this one, I cant celieve that a cobal ss fwd will excel in any dimension over the isf.

kt22cliff

Those numbers straight out of fastestlaps.com and that's not correct/fair way to judge the track performance % difference b/c most if not all except C&D were driven by different drivers on different days/conditions. 8:05 on one day is not same as 8:05 on another day. You look at all the C&D's sectional data M3 vs IS-F, and it tells you IS-F could not carry in speed into the corner and more importantly it could not exit any of the the corner with more speed than M3.

sec1 67.5 vs 64.2
sec2 100.1 vs 96.0
sec3 71.0 vs 67.9
sec4 83.3 vs 78.9
sec5 93.5 vs 91.8

So unless all 3 C&D drivers were ******* it only when they drove IS-F - which is not the case - it's much fairer comparison than other laptime comparisons listed at fastlaps. Ii's the extra 300lbs + no LSD that are killing IS-F.

I believe I can tribute this quote to Bill Parcell. "You are what your record says you are" and in the case of cars on track, "You are what your lap time says you are" IS-F was 8.4 seconds slower than M3 and 7.5 seconds slower than C63 on the same day by same group of drivers which are the direct competition. Frankly after seeing IS-F at Limerock not being able to hold off E46 M3 and then getting passed by E46 thru big bend and esses, I would say the drivers from C&D did far better than expected being only 8 seconds behind E92 M3. And no, E46 was not driven by Tony Kanaan.

vrferrari

....and on the right track, even the venerable M5 As long as this thing can keep a tire underneath it (traction wise), I think this car has the potential to show it's tail lights to anything with 4 doors.

And think of this.......with the current economic crisis and fuel prices, the CTS-V just might be the last uber high hp sedan of this type we may see in a long while, if not forever. It's too bad GM did not have this powertrain available in the model line up sooner to take advantage of the easy money that was available a year ago.

Oh well...

DRE1615

But then how does that explain the c63. An even heavier car with no LSD. And it stilltrumped the ISF. Still confused.

kt22cliff

443 ft lbs helps, alot + 35 more HP. And C63 AMG is not heavier than IS-F. And unless I'm mistaken, LSD is part of the performance pkg in C63 if not standalone option