Day at the dealers
03-01-08, 03:44 PM
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Day at the dealers
OK, so whew, what a day. I went and called all my sales guys and decided to get behind the wheel of all the cars that were being considered. Just thought I'd write about it. Please keep in mind that this is just my subjective view of the cars and is solely an opinion and I apologize to anyone offended by it.
Lexus: Well I had the deposit down on the IS-F already and was now #1 on the list as the other guy took a granite one delivered today. It's a fantastic car. Wonderful engine that was very quick. Steering was a touch mushy and could have used a little more precision. Nice thing about the engine was that it had kind of two modes. Normal mode which felt. . . well felt like a Lexus. But then it had this weird drag race mode whereby if you stepped on the gas, something makes it start roaring and a great sound comes out while you fly down the road. Exterior was a negative for me. I hate to agree with some of the posters (truly I really do, I wanted to love this car) but it does look one heck of a lot like a regular IS. For that price I want a little cache and that's the entry level Lexus to most folks. You aren't going to get that. I know I know, I'm a jerk but it's hard to admit you are getting the same cache value that you get with a BMW or Audi. (once again I apologize, this is purely an opinion)
Inside, the whitish color carbon fibre is sort of lame and cheesy. The nav is typical lexus great and the controls and layout is great. Stereo was great although not nearly as good as the LS460. The problem for me was it felt cramped. I could actually touch the far side of the passenger seat when sitting in the driver seat. It seems to have less interior room than the honda civic. The seats were awful. Too small and the seat doesn't stretch forward so half your thigh is hanging in midair. In the end, I'm passing and giving my spot to IS-Cali. The interior is just too tiny and the looks thing. . .
then I went to:
BMW:
M-3 (YES the new one). Interesting car. They wouldn't let me drive it and it was deep in the depth of the storage facility. Beefy hood. No room for kids in the back so it's a non starter for me. (my kids like to look out the windows and there isn't a lot of window room here) Otherwise it looks like a BMW coupe on steroids. Lots of pumped out body panels, especially the hood which is very noticeable.
M-5. OK, now this fits my family. 4 doors, plenty of room. Inside, "shrug" it's a BMW. Feels like it, smells like it and has that sort of teutonic non personal feeling that all BMW's do. It's flat out boring honestly. I like the Lexus way better. The seats were my favorite part of the car. No exaggeration, the best seats in any car I've ever sat in. The upper half tilts forward and the sides hug you. . literally, they fold in mechanically. Now my Ferrari has a manual adjustment to that but this thing has wings that hug in mechanically and a top mechanical moving thingy. Whoa. Really really nice. Is it me or do ALL BMW's feel like all the screw's have been tightened too tight then they turn the screw one more time? This has the same feel. The Engine? Marvelous. Really goes with endless power. 9-12 miles per gallon with 150 mile range? WTF? I thought he was kidding. My F430 gets better than that. Seriously. I-Drive still sucks no matter what the salesman says. (he literally couldn't get it to do half the stuff and said "oh you get used to it though") I like the integrated sun shades but the deal killer for me here? SMG. Now what the heck is this? You drive this thing and it has no torque converter so going from one gear to the next whether in 'automatic' or pick your gear mode takes 1.5 seconds in soft mode or 1 second in hardcore mode. It's AWFUL. One footed and with one hand I could shift this thing faster with a manual. As I need an automatic or some semblance of one for my wife to drive it, it's a nonstarter. (Can't stress this enough, I really hated the SMG) I thought it was fine over potholes and don't know what the complaints on that are. Steering was suprisingly soft. Didn't precision go where you turn the wheel to as precise as I wanted to. Frankly, I thought the IS-F was better. Overall, was mildly dissapointed and won't be buying this one either.
Jaguar:
XF-Supercharged: I think this is going to be the one for me. Exterior? I was NOT a fan of the shape of the front in the magazines and pix I've seen. In person? It was much much nicer. It's actually a very nice looking car. Svelte and shapely, "sexy" is a good word here. I still could do without the headlights but the grill wasn't as stupid as it seems in the pix I've seen. Engine is great, lots of power but not as great a sound as the IS-F. No silly SMG so it shifts nice but didn't blip the throttle which bummed me out on downshifts. The interior is fantastic (love the heartbeat starter that pulses). Honestly as nice as the Audi's. Maybe a teeeny weeny bit less than the A8 but very very nice. One kind of big dissapointment? the blue lighted accents around the dash and instruments and center console was GONE. The sales guy said that was only on the promo models but it is still in the brochure. Well, this car for whatever reason didn't have it. I loved that so I was very dissapointed. Plenty of room in the car and it still was very drivable by the wife. When you wanted to you could still punch it and have fun. The kitchy things like the shift **** coming out of the center console and the covers of the vents opening and closing were actually pretty cool.
In the end, I think I'm going with the XF and put yet another deposit down (lol now I have a GTR an XF and a IS-F deposit running around). I think if you have a family and need to put kids in a four door with a wife driving occasionally and still want to have some fun, this is the one for you.
Anyways, that's my rant. Just wanted to write it out for my own edification as well as to describe my day. Go ahead and flame me now
Lexus: Well I had the deposit down on the IS-F already and was now #1 on the list as the other guy took a granite one delivered today. It's a fantastic car. Wonderful engine that was very quick. Steering was a touch mushy and could have used a little more precision. Nice thing about the engine was that it had kind of two modes. Normal mode which felt. . . well felt like a Lexus. But then it had this weird drag race mode whereby if you stepped on the gas, something makes it start roaring and a great sound comes out while you fly down the road. Exterior was a negative for me. I hate to agree with some of the posters (truly I really do, I wanted to love this car) but it does look one heck of a lot like a regular IS. For that price I want a little cache and that's the entry level Lexus to most folks. You aren't going to get that. I know I know, I'm a jerk but it's hard to admit you are getting the same cache value that you get with a BMW or Audi. (once again I apologize, this is purely an opinion)
Inside, the whitish color carbon fibre is sort of lame and cheesy. The nav is typical lexus great and the controls and layout is great. Stereo was great although not nearly as good as the LS460. The problem for me was it felt cramped. I could actually touch the far side of the passenger seat when sitting in the driver seat. It seems to have less interior room than the honda civic. The seats were awful. Too small and the seat doesn't stretch forward so half your thigh is hanging in midair. In the end, I'm passing and giving my spot to IS-Cali. The interior is just too tiny and the looks thing. . .
then I went to:
BMW:
M-3 (YES the new one). Interesting car. They wouldn't let me drive it and it was deep in the depth of the storage facility. Beefy hood. No room for kids in the back so it's a non starter for me. (my kids like to look out the windows and there isn't a lot of window room here) Otherwise it looks like a BMW coupe on steroids. Lots of pumped out body panels, especially the hood which is very noticeable.
M-5. OK, now this fits my family. 4 doors, plenty of room. Inside, "shrug" it's a BMW. Feels like it, smells like it and has that sort of teutonic non personal feeling that all BMW's do. It's flat out boring honestly. I like the Lexus way better. The seats were my favorite part of the car. No exaggeration, the best seats in any car I've ever sat in. The upper half tilts forward and the sides hug you. . literally, they fold in mechanically. Now my Ferrari has a manual adjustment to that but this thing has wings that hug in mechanically and a top mechanical moving thingy. Whoa. Really really nice. Is it me or do ALL BMW's feel like all the screw's have been tightened too tight then they turn the screw one more time? This has the same feel. The Engine? Marvelous. Really goes with endless power. 9-12 miles per gallon with 150 mile range? WTF? I thought he was kidding. My F430 gets better than that. Seriously. I-Drive still sucks no matter what the salesman says. (he literally couldn't get it to do half the stuff and said "oh you get used to it though") I like the integrated sun shades but the deal killer for me here? SMG. Now what the heck is this? You drive this thing and it has no torque converter so going from one gear to the next whether in 'automatic' or pick your gear mode takes 1.5 seconds in soft mode or 1 second in hardcore mode. It's AWFUL. One footed and with one hand I could shift this thing faster with a manual. As I need an automatic or some semblance of one for my wife to drive it, it's a nonstarter. (Can't stress this enough, I really hated the SMG) I thought it was fine over potholes and don't know what the complaints on that are. Steering was suprisingly soft. Didn't precision go where you turn the wheel to as precise as I wanted to. Frankly, I thought the IS-F was better. Overall, was mildly dissapointed and won't be buying this one either.
Jaguar:
XF-Supercharged: I think this is going to be the one for me. Exterior? I was NOT a fan of the shape of the front in the magazines and pix I've seen. In person? It was much much nicer. It's actually a very nice looking car. Svelte and shapely, "sexy" is a good word here. I still could do without the headlights but the grill wasn't as stupid as it seems in the pix I've seen. Engine is great, lots of power but not as great a sound as the IS-F. No silly SMG so it shifts nice but didn't blip the throttle which bummed me out on downshifts. The interior is fantastic (love the heartbeat starter that pulses). Honestly as nice as the Audi's. Maybe a teeeny weeny bit less than the A8 but very very nice. One kind of big dissapointment? the blue lighted accents around the dash and instruments and center console was GONE. The sales guy said that was only on the promo models but it is still in the brochure. Well, this car for whatever reason didn't have it. I loved that so I was very dissapointed. Plenty of room in the car and it still was very drivable by the wife. When you wanted to you could still punch it and have fun. The kitchy things like the shift **** coming out of the center console and the covers of the vents opening and closing were actually pretty cool.
In the end, I think I'm going with the XF and put yet another deposit down (lol now I have a GTR an XF and a IS-F deposit running around). I think if you have a family and need to put kids in a four door with a wife driving occasionally and still want to have some fun, this is the one for you.
Anyways, that's my rant. Just wanted to write it out for my own edification as well as to describe my day. Go ahead and flame me now
03-01-08, 06:28 PM
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No flame. Sometimes it is good to write thoughts out...helps clarify and prioritize preferences and hopefully leads to informed decisions and lessens buyers remorse. Also it made a good read.
PS: cachet has a "t" at the end.
PS: cachet has a "t" at the end.
03-01-08, 09:20 PM
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HA, too much messing around with my computer obviously. Yep cacheT. I will say this though, if I was single or no kids and didn't mind the cramped feeling of the IS-F? I think I'd go with it. The sound, man you might want to take the stereo out and just listen to it scream. Really nice.
Another rant on that damn SMG thing on M5/M6, it doesn't go anywhere when you take your foot off the brake! I mean to put it in park you can just pull up the parking brake WHILE IN DRIVE and shut it off. It's flat out weird and too different of a driving experience for me. Maybe I'm just getting old but that's actually too much technology in my opinion. I also don't think I adequately described the shifting thing. Imagine going along and your car goes from say 3rd to 4th gear. Now imagine it goes from third and then you kind of coast for a full second or second and a half then it goes into fourth. Now imagine dealing with that 200 times every time you drive the car. It's that bad. Salesguy said you get better and it's faster as you learn "to feather the pedal". Strange, it seemed just as bad when he was driving it!
Another rant on that damn SMG thing on M5/M6, it doesn't go anywhere when you take your foot off the brake! I mean to put it in park you can just pull up the parking brake WHILE IN DRIVE and shut it off. It's flat out weird and too different of a driving experience for me. Maybe I'm just getting old but that's actually too much technology in my opinion. I also don't think I adequately described the shifting thing. Imagine going along and your car goes from say 3rd to 4th gear. Now imagine it goes from third and then you kind of coast for a full second or second and a half then it goes into fourth. Now imagine dealing with that 200 times every time you drive the car. It's that bad. Salesguy said you get better and it's faster as you learn "to feather the pedal". Strange, it seemed just as bad when he was driving it!
03-02-08, 11:13 AM
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03-02-08, 01:50 PM
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actually it's a very different experience because it isn't mounted on the wheel and neutral is a double pull and the paddles are spring loaded rather than strange pneumatic thing that is also on the DB9; but no, it isn't F1. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not Michael Schumacher, I don't need that. Besides, I never got used to the paddles. I'll just keep driving the wrong way; Heh.
03-02-08, 02:46 PM
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Actually no, referring specifically to the idle action as we were discussing, it's the same on virtually any sequential manual (with the exception of possibly one implementation). They will roll, but they will not creep, just as with the M5 - mechanically, they are in fact manual transmissions, after all. That aspect is something a driver has to get used to when switching from driving only automatics; it shouldn't be that unusual for those who drive manuals or sequential manuals. That's why I was surprised you found it so different. But enjoy your 6spd F430, they tend to have good resale anyway.
Last edited by gengar; 03-02-08 at 02:57 PM.
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03-02-08, 08:41 PM
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OK, I'll get more specific I spose. Had a Maserati Gransport for 9 months pre F430 with the paddles and I still feel that driving the GS was very different from that SMG. Whether mechanically different or not I can't tell you as I drive but don't know much about the tech. Driving experience wise it was much much different. The Maz felt like an manual that you knew darn well you had to shift back and forth. If for example you left it in 3rd gear, it would stay there till you redlined. Heck for all I know it would have let you go till the engine shut down (no I never tried that, heh). The BMW M5 literally shifted me into 6th gear when I was in 3rd and was in the "SMG" aggressive mode. At the stop sign or at a light, I was always in Neutral with my foot on the brake. It was very intuitive the way you pulled both paddles and went to Neutral just as if you put your manual in N when you hit a stoplight. If it was a rolling stop (yeah yeah I know complete stop, tell me you haven't done it too) then it would be 1st gear lay off brake then pedal again. I was rarely if ever in gear and at full stop so I didn't notice it like I did on this M5. 1.5 second lag time where you basically cruised without going forward between gears? Didn't exist on the Maz, it shifted faster than I could blink. There was absoloutely no 1-1.5 sec lag before the next thing kicked in. But, when I say it was different, I meant that driving the F1 transmission in the Maz felt like driving a manual that you could shift without a clutch pedal and using paddles. So the standstill never came into play for me. The BMW it came into play a lot as you cannot drop it to N by pulling the paddles but you just stop like normal so it "felt" more like an automatic that was shiftable rather than a manual that had automatic features.
P.S. When you put the Maz (which is the same transmission as the Ferrari which I'm sure you know) in Auto mode, for whatever reason (sport car mentality vs sedan I guess) I still had my foot on the brake and switched to the pedal so I didn't get the feeling there either. Although I admit I rarely if ever put it into Auto setting. Also, the paddles on the steering column and the feeling behind the paddle actually shifting is a big deal. When you are in a turn (90 degree turn to the left for example) you kind of lose the paddle and that mushy paddle feeling rather than the spring back of the F1 is a much different feel. That being said I'm sure you are totally right and that the mechanics are the same. I'm saying the driving sure isn't.
Thx for the resale quote though, I'm hoping so although I don't see myself ever selling it. I like to collect and this is my first V8 Prancing Pony. I'm hoping to keep it in the garage.
P.S. When you put the Maz (which is the same transmission as the Ferrari which I'm sure you know) in Auto mode, for whatever reason (sport car mentality vs sedan I guess) I still had my foot on the brake and switched to the pedal so I didn't get the feeling there either. Although I admit I rarely if ever put it into Auto setting. Also, the paddles on the steering column and the feeling behind the paddle actually shifting is a big deal. When you are in a turn (90 degree turn to the left for example) you kind of lose the paddle and that mushy paddle feeling rather than the spring back of the F1 is a much different feel. That being said I'm sure you are totally right and that the mechanics are the same. I'm saying the driving sure isn't.
Thx for the resale quote though, I'm hoping so although I don't see myself ever selling it. I like to collect and this is my first V8 Prancing Pony. I'm hoping to keep it in the garage.
Last edited by TrinCap; 03-02-08 at 08:44 PM.
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