IS 350 Test Drive
06-12-16, 10:19 PM
#91
Rookie
Thread Starter
I do normally trust JD Power over others but usually found them to be relatively similar in most cases. It is still pretty impressive to be up there considering they used to have the reputation of probably the least reliable vehicle you can buy.
06-12-16, 10:27 PM
#92
If you call it "impressive" to be in the top 1/3 of the pyramid - so bid. But Audi was never one of the worst, Audi has been consistently slightly above the average, the bottom of the pyramid has been traditionally occupied by Volkswagen, Fiat, Jeep, Dodge and Land Rover.
06-13-16, 06:06 AM
#93
To Update:
This weekend I went to a Mercedes dealership and they had nothing sporty on the lot that was under $60K. The interiors were out of control decadent though.
I then headed over to an Audi dealer and checked out their cars. The TT definitely does not and never has appealed to me. I really don't like the shape of the car.
But there was a special edition Nogaro Blue 2015 S4 on the lot. This thing looked amazing as I really like that color. The interior had Ricaro racing seats that were black leather/blue alcantara 2 toned. This interior blew me away. It was head and shoulders above BMW and Lexus by a long shot.
Then I drove the car and it made me realize that a 4 door does not have to be boring and bland. The steering, handling and over all experience was great. This felt like a real sports car. I really liked it. Audi surprised me on this one. Then there's the small fact that Audi is currently at the #3 spot for reliability right behind Lexus and Toyota. That's very impressive since a decade ago they were known as the biggest money pit ever.
Then the numbers were ran and it was north of $60K. Definitely not in my current budget. But it did make me realize something. Audi might be the new BMW these days. It makes me wonder what an S5 feels like because that S4 was brilliant. Although the special edition touches really set the car off for me.
This weekend I went to a Mercedes dealership and they had nothing sporty on the lot that was under $60K. The interiors were out of control decadent though.
I then headed over to an Audi dealer and checked out their cars. The TT definitely does not and never has appealed to me. I really don't like the shape of the car.
But there was a special edition Nogaro Blue 2015 S4 on the lot. This thing looked amazing as I really like that color. The interior had Ricaro racing seats that were black leather/blue alcantara 2 toned. This interior blew me away. It was head and shoulders above BMW and Lexus by a long shot.
Then I drove the car and it made me realize that a 4 door does not have to be boring and bland. The steering, handling and over all experience was great. This felt like a real sports car. I really liked it. Audi surprised me on this one. Then there's the small fact that Audi is currently at the #3 spot for reliability right behind Lexus and Toyota. That's very impressive since a decade ago they were known as the biggest money pit ever.
Then the numbers were ran and it was north of $60K. Definitely not in my current budget. But it did make me realize something. Audi might be the new BMW these days. It makes me wonder what an S5 feels like because that S4 was brilliant. Although the special edition touches really set the car off for me.
Here are 30 major brands by 10-year estimated maintenance costs. The precise size of the data set is unknown, but YourMechanic calls it “massive.”
Brand with cost next to it. Look who's at the bottom.
1 BMW $17,800
2 Mercedes-Benz $12,900
3 Cadillac $12,500
4 Volvo $12,500
5 Audi $12,400
6 Saturn $12,400
7 Mercury $12,000
8 Pontiac $11,800
9 Chrysler $10,600
10 Dodge $10,600
11 Acura $9,800
12 Infiniti $9,300
13 Ford $9,100
14 Kia $8,800
15 Land Rover $8,800
16 Chevrolet $8,800
17 Buick $8,600
18 Jeep $8,300
19 Subaru $8,200
20 Hyundai $8,200
21 GMC $7,800
22 Volkswagen $7,800
23 Nissan $7,600
24 Mazda $7,500
25 Mini $7,500
26 Mitsubishi $7,400
27 Honda $7,200
28 Lexus $7,000
29 Scion $6,400
30 Toyota $5,500
06-13-16, 06:29 AM
#94
Pole Position
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've owned 3 Lexus (92 ES, 98 GS, 06 SC) and now I own a 12 BMW X3 and a 13 MB E350 Cab.
While my current 2 drive way better than any of the Lexus I have owned, Lexus is the only one that I wouldn't hesitate to own after the warranty period is up. My BMW's warranty period just ended. I only have 40k on it but in a year or two , I will probably get rid of it. I've only had one problem with it (electric shifter. It was a $1k fix if not under warranty). The MB only has 14k so too early to tell.
I just wish Lexus made something that was appealing to me. They seem to think their cars look sporty if they make them look like they'll turn into robots instead of engineering cars with wonderful driving dynamics.
While the new Audi A4 looks real impressive, I don't trust their reliability. A4 had major engine problems from 09-11. It looks like I have a quandary coming up.
While my current 2 drive way better than any of the Lexus I have owned, Lexus is the only one that I wouldn't hesitate to own after the warranty period is up. My BMW's warranty period just ended. I only have 40k on it but in a year or two , I will probably get rid of it. I've only had one problem with it (electric shifter. It was a $1k fix if not under warranty). The MB only has 14k so too early to tell.
I just wish Lexus made something that was appealing to me. They seem to think their cars look sporty if they make them look like they'll turn into robots instead of engineering cars with wonderful driving dynamics.
While the new Audi A4 looks real impressive, I don't trust their reliability. A4 had major engine problems from 09-11. It looks like I have a quandary coming up.
06-13-16, 09:20 AM
#95
Rookie
Thread Starter
I've owned 3 Lexus (92 ES, 98 GS, 06 SC) and now I own a 12 BMW X3 and a 13 MB E350 Cab.
While my current 2 drive way better than any of the Lexus I have owned, Lexus is the only one that I wouldn't hesitate to own after the warranty period is up. My BMW's warranty period just ended. I only have 40k on it but in a year or two , I will probably get rid of it. I've only had one problem with it (electric shifter. It was a $1k fix if not under warranty). The MB only has 14k so too early to tell.
I just wish Lexus made something that was appealing to me. They seem to think their cars look sporty if they make them look like they'll turn into robots instead of engineering cars with wonderful driving dynamics.
While the new Audi A4 looks real impressive, I don't trust their reliability. A4 had major engine problems from 09-11. It looks like I have a quandary coming up.
While my current 2 drive way better than any of the Lexus I have owned, Lexus is the only one that I wouldn't hesitate to own after the warranty period is up. My BMW's warranty period just ended. I only have 40k on it but in a year or two , I will probably get rid of it. I've only had one problem with it (electric shifter. It was a $1k fix if not under warranty). The MB only has 14k so too early to tell.
I just wish Lexus made something that was appealing to me. They seem to think their cars look sporty if they make them look like they'll turn into robots instead of engineering cars with wonderful driving dynamics.
While the new Audi A4 looks real impressive, I don't trust their reliability. A4 had major engine problems from 09-11. It looks like I have a quandary coming up.
Audi has made great stride to improve reliability. The A4 did used to have a bad engine but they have supposedly corrected that mistake. Since I have been paying for an e46 M3's repair bills for 8 years I doubt that an Audi would leave me surprised or overwhelmed in comparison.
Honestly the M3 didn't hardly need anything done to it until I hit around 110,000 miles. It has held up nicely over the years. $1,000 here $1,500 there can get annoying though from 110,000 on up.
06-13-16, 09:27 AM
#96
Rookie
Thread Starter
Consider this too --
Here are 30 major brands by 10-year estimated maintenance costs. The precise size of the data set is unknown, but YourMechanic calls it “massive.”
Brand with cost next to it. Look who's at the bottom.
1 BMW $17,800
2 Mercedes-Benz $12,900
3 Cadillac $12,500
4 Volvo $12,500
5 Audi $12,400
6 Saturn $12,400
7 Mercury $12,000
8 Pontiac $11,800
9 Chrysler $10,600
10 Dodge $10,600
11 Acura $9,800
12 Infiniti $9,300
13 Ford $9,100
14 Kia $8,800
15 Land Rover $8,800
16 Chevrolet $8,800
17 Buick $8,600
18 Jeep $8,300
19 Subaru $8,200
20 Hyundai $8,200
21 GMC $7,800
22 Volkswagen $7,800
23 Nissan $7,600
24 Mazda $7,500
25 Mini $7,500
26 Mitsubishi $7,400
27 Honda $7,200
28 Lexus $7,000
29 Scion $6,400
30 Toyota $5,500
Here are 30 major brands by 10-year estimated maintenance costs. The precise size of the data set is unknown, but YourMechanic calls it “massive.”
Brand with cost next to it. Look who's at the bottom.
1 BMW $17,800
2 Mercedes-Benz $12,900
3 Cadillac $12,500
4 Volvo $12,500
5 Audi $12,400
6 Saturn $12,400
7 Mercury $12,000
8 Pontiac $11,800
9 Chrysler $10,600
10 Dodge $10,600
11 Acura $9,800
12 Infiniti $9,300
13 Ford $9,100
14 Kia $8,800
15 Land Rover $8,800
16 Chevrolet $8,800
17 Buick $8,600
18 Jeep $8,300
19 Subaru $8,200
20 Hyundai $8,200
21 GMC $7,800
22 Volkswagen $7,800
23 Nissan $7,600
24 Mazda $7,500
25 Mini $7,500
26 Mitsubishi $7,400
27 Honda $7,200
28 Lexus $7,000
29 Scion $6,400
30 Toyota $5,500
If you don't care about feeling the road, having steering feel, enjoyment when tossing the car into a corner etc.. then yes, Lexus is by far the champ here. It's the only luxury segment car at the bottom. A huge achievement but they are not yet for those who enjoy driving more than comfort.
06-13-16, 09:33 AM
#97
Rookie
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: California
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have you tried driving the newer (F30) 3-Series? Steering is complete ****. Coming from an STI, I was considering a 335i before I decided to go with the IS350, but couldn't do it due to how disconnected you felt from the car. More power is nice, but the tradeoff in feel was too steep. While they both use electric steering, at least with the Lexus, you get some semblance of feedback, whereas with the 3 series, you might as well be steering with a videogame controller. This seems consistent with a lot of the criticism I've read regarding the F30 in general. I've extensively driven an E90 328i, and the difference was night and day. Now, journalists seem to say that the 2-Series is the "best" drivers' car that BMW currently makes, but given the current crop, I'm not sure that's saying much. That said, I think the M2 is going to be solid, and it's probably the BMW that I'd most likely consider.
06-13-16, 09:39 AM
#98
Pole Position
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm in the same boat as you where I wish that Lexus made something with better driving feel because I want to enjoy low maintenance and cost of ownership. Unfortunately I can't drive something numb, it would make me wonder what the point is. The looks of Lexus IMO are really good. I love the way the IS 350 looks. Driving just wasn't exciting or involving. Although I'm used to an e46 M3 which is one of the best driver's cars out there.
Audi has made great stride to improve reliability. The A4 did used to have a bad engine but they have supposedly corrected that mistake. Since I have been paying for an e46 M3's repair bills for 8 years I doubt that an Audi would leave me surprised or overwhelmed in comparison.
Honestly the M3 didn't hardly need anything done to it until I hit around 110,000 miles. It has held up nicely over the years. $1,000 here $1,500 there can get annoying though from 110,000 on up.
Audi has made great stride to improve reliability. The A4 did used to have a bad engine but they have supposedly corrected that mistake. Since I have been paying for an e46 M3's repair bills for 8 years I doubt that an Audi would leave me surprised or overwhelmed in comparison.
Honestly the M3 didn't hardly need anything done to it until I hit around 110,000 miles. It has held up nicely over the years. $1,000 here $1,500 there can get annoying though from 110,000 on up.
06-13-16, 09:57 AM
#99
Your opinion, opinion of multiple car reviewers is different. I thought you already made up your mind so what the heck are you doing on this forum? At this point you are just another internet troll.
Last edited by Olasek; 06-13-16 at 10:20 AM.
06-13-16, 10:14 AM
#100
Yeah, I saw this. It's quite telling. However when purchasing a nice car for 40 - 50K is 10K over 10 years really that big a deal in the grand scheme of things? If going for something that expensive I would want what I really enjoy and not settle for something far more boring to drive and slightly less expensive. Cost of repairs is a big difference but overall cost including purchase price really isn't.
If you don't care about feeling the road, having steering feel, enjoyment when tossing the car into a corner etc.. then yes, Lexus is by far the champ here. It's the only luxury segment car at the bottom. A huge achievement but they are not yet for those who enjoy driving more than comfort.
If you don't care about feeling the road, having steering feel, enjoyment when tossing the car into a corner etc.. then yes, Lexus is by far the champ here. It's the only luxury segment car at the bottom. A huge achievement but they are not yet for those who enjoy driving more than comfort.
2. Why do you keep ragging on the IS? I have owned Jags, MG's, Porsche, Alfa, and other cars over the years -- the IS350 F-sport is a blast to drive through twisties.. Last car was a V-8 Genesis. Fast, fast car. Man I loved blasting that thing up to 40mph which is when I had to come to a stop because of traffic -- stuck next to the BMW's, Teslas, and other fast cars.
It seems you've moved past honest discovery and are going to places that, rather than be agnostic searching, are becoming more of a delivery system for back handed slams of the driving primitives who prefer a Lexus. Why are you doing this?
06-13-16, 11:36 AM
#101
Lexus Test Driver
We are grown ups for honest critique, no car is perfect, and the Lexus IS as an entry level luxury is no 5/7 Series or E/S Class competitor. It holds it's own against the equivalent 3 Series, A4, C Class models in Luxury or F-Sport trim. But to go compare it to the S4, 2M or even the C43 is ludicrous as then he should be comparing the GS-F in size and pricing.
06-13-16, 12:26 PM
#102
CraigMak,
We've patiently heard everything you've had to say. Some of it was useful and relevant. But now, you've run out of material. You're repeating yourself. You keep whining about being flamed. Now you're just being a troll. Please go away. The IS is not for for you. Lexus sucks, yes, we got it. You want the reliability, but cannot stand the blandness of Lexus compared to BMW - yes, we got that as well. Multiple times. Now, please go.
ADMIN - Can you please close this thread, before it deteriorates into name-calling?
We've patiently heard everything you've had to say. Some of it was useful and relevant. But now, you've run out of material. You're repeating yourself. You keep whining about being flamed. Now you're just being a troll. Please go away. The IS is not for for you. Lexus sucks, yes, we got it. You want the reliability, but cannot stand the blandness of Lexus compared to BMW - yes, we got that as well. Multiple times. Now, please go.
ADMIN - Can you please close this thread, before it deteriorates into name-calling?
06-13-16, 02:17 PM
#103
Rookie
Thread Starter
Have you tried driving the newer (F30) 3-Series? Steering is complete ****. Coming from an STI, I was considering a 335i before I decided to go with the IS350, but couldn't do it due to how disconnected you felt from the car. More power is nice, but the tradeoff in feel was too steep. While they both use electric steering, at least with the Lexus, you get some semblance of feedback, whereas with the 3 series, you might as well be steering with a videogame controller. This seems consistent with a lot of the criticism I've read regarding the F30 in general. I've extensively driven an E90 328i, and the difference was night and day. Now, journalists seem to say that the 2-Series is the "best" drivers' car that BMW currently makes, but given the current crop, I'm not sure that's saying much. That said, I think the M2 is going to be solid, and it's probably the BMW that I'd most likely consider.
I have driven all previous generations of BMW and they were all really good. It seems BMW decided that the 3-series is not for drivers anymore. Really sad and I opted not to try it. If the IS is rated better and it felt uninvolved to me then the 3 series is really not going to be to my liking I assume.
06-13-16, 02:29 PM
#104
Rookie
Thread Starter
1. My time is a luxury. Time spent at a dealership or worrying about problems is a degradation to my time. Reliability is a luxury item to those who would rather be making money or doing something other than fretting with a car. BMW will likely eat up 3x as much of my time at dealerships, etc. That degrades the driving experience too.
2. Why do you keep ragging on the IS? I have owned Jags, MG's, Porsche, Alfa, and other cars over the years -- the IS350 F-sport is a blast to drive through twisties.. Last car was a V-8 Genesis. Fast, fast car. Man I loved blasting that thing up to 40mph which is when I had to come to a stop because of traffic -- stuck next to the BMW's, Teslas, and other fast cars.
It seems you've moved past honest discovery and are going to places that, rather than be agnostic searching, are becoming more of a delivery system for back handed slams of the driving primitives who prefer a Lexus. Why are you doing this?
2. Why do you keep ragging on the IS? I have owned Jags, MG's, Porsche, Alfa, and other cars over the years -- the IS350 F-sport is a blast to drive through twisties.. Last car was a V-8 Genesis. Fast, fast car. Man I loved blasting that thing up to 40mph which is when I had to come to a stop because of traffic -- stuck next to the BMW's, Teslas, and other fast cars.
It seems you've moved past honest discovery and are going to places that, rather than be agnostic searching, are becoming more of a delivery system for back handed slams of the driving primitives who prefer a Lexus. Why are you doing this?
It seems some people can't handle hearing anything that isn't positive. Pretty sensitive.
I continue to write and respond in the thread because some things are insightful.
There's no reason to get bent out of shape. It's one persons opinion and nothing more. If I didn't like the car or the community at all I would not still be responding.
There's good and bad.
I am coming from a car that is such a drivers car that the suspension is borderline uncomfortable and the steering is very heavy.
I will be the first to admit that this is not for everyone and would not get bent out of shape if some one pointed out these flaws.
It is impossible to make a car that does everything well at a reasonable cost. Everything is give and take.
06-13-16, 02:39 PM
#105
Lexus Champion
Your comments about the finger-light steering of the IS make me wonder if the sample you were driving had over-inflated tires. Too much air can definitely make the steering feel lighter, and it's not hard to find a new Lexus on the lot with over-inflated tires.
I'm considering this because I never found the steering that light in my IS when I had it, especially in Sport mode. I would pop it back to Normal mode in parking lots and such because the steering effort required in Sport mode was quite high and lower speeds (or I just have weak arms
).
Note that my IS did not have VGRS.
I'm considering this because I never found the steering that light in my IS when I had it, especially in Sport mode. I would pop it back to Normal mode in parking lots and such because the steering effort required in Sport mode was quite high and lower speeds (or I just have weak arms
).Note that my IS did not have VGRS.
