rob stolen

iTrader: (2)

I agree. I was around here back in 08 and noticed just on this forum alone, there's WAY LESS activity here than the 2IS forums back in the day. Anecdotal yes, but very noticeable nonethless.

I think a lot of ppl have jumped ship to other cars and to other forums like Bimmerpost. The activity in the f30post/f80post forums is probably 5X than here than the Clublexus 3IS/RC/RCF forums.

It also doesn't help that the 3rd gen IS350 is much slower than its predecessor. Also probably explains why there are so many 15 RCF's left on dealer lots (and being discounted heavily) and tons more in the used car market. For people looking to spend $70k+ in THAT specific market, bloated luxury cruisers with okay power just doesn't cut it when your competitors outperform you across the board. Lexus miscalculated badly. I just hope they shift focus more to raw performance for their next gens.

gregerst

I think the reason your not seeing as much activity on this forum has more to do with cost. The type a person that would frequent the forums like this tend to be younger and want to mod their cars and they typically don't have the income to go out and buy a new lexus. As the 3rd gen starts to age a bit more I think you'll see more & more people picking them up. It's not that nobody wants them.. on the contrary I get complements all the time.
Lexus says the average age of a 3rd gen IS owner is 41. That's down from like 50+ on their other cars so their strategy of designing cars that appeal to younger buyers seems to be working. Maybe some find it polarizing but the more spindle grills you see on the road the more normal it becomes and actually becomes appealing over time. Toyota is doing something similar. The camry's grill is pretty big. The 4runner grill is large is very aggressive looking, same with the new Tacoma etc. Lexus / toyota are taking bold steps. They need cars that appeal to younger generation of buyers, look good and be unique and distinguishable from other brands, while maintaining their legendary reliability.

EZZ

Also, most of us are enthusiasts and I find waaaay more IS350 owners here than in the real world. A ton of 3ISs here in so-cal but the vast majority of them are the 250/200t. I think for a young enthusiast, there are waaaaaay better options in the $40k range. A Camaro SS that costs $38k would blow the doors off of a 335/340 pretty easily.

gregerst

You bring up a great point. If you're a young car enthusiast that wants speed above all else And have the money to burn on a $40 - 50k car your probably going to be looking at something else. That's probably a tiny market though and not the buyers Lexus is focusing the IS on. But for the segment they are focusing on it's a great alternative to the competition.

rob stolen

iTrader: (2)

Nah, my point has nothing to do with age. Sure if you're younger and looking for performance, you have an abundance of options like Camaro, Mustang, or even lesser priced cars, but that's not the point. All you hear and read nowadays is that buyers are flocking to this class of car ("near luxury" or entry luxury/sport) and these buyers are more discerning in their purchases. They want luxury but ALSO performance too. And when most to all your competitors outperform you, that is meaningful.

Lexus is calculating that buyers will forgo some performance for durability and luxury coupled with the Lexus name. And with the recent aggressive (more like risky) design language being adopted across most of their entire line, I just don't think the formula is working in this class. Look at the current GS. It's selling terribly. The RCF is failing. They can get away with it slightly in the IS because there are lower level models that buyers can still get into the brand/class/prestige/monniker, and not break the bank, but I think the performance disadvantage coupled with their polarizing stylng is really hurting them when you go into the IS350 class all the way through to the RCF.

My comment on the forum activity also has nothing to do with age. Go check out the F80post (M3/M4) forums. That car sells for $70K+ AND was released as a 2015 model. It's only been out a year. That forum has TONS of pages and threads with around 15-20 VERY busy/active subsections. You don't see anything like that here on Clublexus. Again, this is for a car that sells for $70K. I'm sure there are very few 18-year olds active there. It has nothing do with age.

Simply put, if a car is selling well and has a lot of buzz, then logically the car forum it represents will have more participation. Sure those who post in car forums tend to be more enthusiasts in nature, but it's just sheer numbers and sales. More sales = more people participating.

salvadorik

iTrader: (1)

I am not sure if it is entirely correct to say more sales = more people participate. Sure the more number of people drive the cars the odds are the participation is likely to go up as well, but that assumes what everything else stays equal. In real world it does not stay equal. There are other factors (other than the number of cars sold) that could potentially motivate more owners of a particular brand to be active on the forums vs another brand's. BMW is known to have a very loyal and enthusiastic customer base. In fact they are too emotionally attached to their vehicles. They love anything and everything about their bimmers. Lexus, on the other hand, tends to have more conservative, less performance oriented customers who are most likely attracted to the brand due to logical reasons (value, reliability, slower depreciation etc). So the percentage of the current BMW owners active in the forums is likely to be significantly higher than that of Lexus. In other words more customers does not necessarily mean higher forum participation, forum participation hinges upon more on qualitative rather than quantitative reasons.

Also I don't necessary agree with your statement that IS350 is at an absolute performance disadvantage compared to its competition. Performance does not ONLY mean speed or track times etc. Handling, "feel and the way the car sounds are also other attributes of a performance vehicle. For example in handling department IS350 F Sport (in stock to stock comparison) is the king in its class. Only Caddy ATS has a similarly outstanding handling characteristics. The reason for this is both 3IS and ATS have excellent chassis, that is both extremely stiff and light. This has been demonstrated over and over again by many auto journalists and car enthusiasts. The only aspect of performance advantage that competition have over IS350 is the availability of FI engines (e.g. 3L Inline 6 bmw and 3.0T supercharged V6 audi). Yes, 2GR-FSE has lower specs but it is still an exceptional NA engine. It has an immediate throttle response which cannot be said about 335i that has a noticeable turbo lag off the line.

I don't know much about RCF though but it seems M4 almost always comes out as a winner and yeah BMWs outsell Lexus by a lot. But I am gonna give more credit to Lexus here. Lexus is a young brand compared to the Bavarian giant and Lexus is only a luxury division of Toyota. BMW is giant sports/luxury auto manufacturer that has been in this business for about 100 years now.

gregerst

A few things to consider. BMW has been in the performance / sport / luxury game a lot longer than Lexus has so they have a larger following. A 425hp $70k car will generate buzz.
Lexus has done an awesome job for the first real go at the BMW 3 series and competition. Road & Track named gave it top honors as well as Car and Driver. Beating bmw, infiniti & cadillac. What's to ***** about? Just enjoy having the best sports sedan on the market in this category. I couldn't care less how active the BMW forum is. Most of those posts over there are the same group of people posting there's also posters from other countries. So it's a much wider reach.

Xanadu350

I was around here in 2006 watching the 2nd gen IS forums because once I saw the car in 2006 I was hooked and knew I would be getting one. I remember this forum and I could not keep up with all the posts, it was several pages of just 1 day posting x's that everyday I literally couldn't keep up with all the photos and talk. The feel on the forum was excitement and it was fun seeing all the photos. I held out and got a 2007 model with all the options I wanted because I waited and lucked out by the dealer seeing the car I wanted on the boat and he ticketed it as mine it was unbelievable because the car had options on it that you normally would have had to special order.

I'm now interested in the 3rd Gen IS but will probably wait for LCI refresh but I have noticed the hoopla and postings are much much less around here than it was in 2006, 2007, 2008 etc. I saw a post here the other day that someone came back and they posted their photo of their 3 Gen IS and that person hardly got any replies, I felt bad. I wish the forum was buzzing like it was back in 2006. Why isn't it? Yeah the car is polarizing but I don't think it's that. I think the economy has a lot to do with it as well. The IS 350 is not that much more expensive from 2007 to 2015 to warrant people leaving and not upgrading to the 3rd Gen. So I don't really understand it.

gregerst

Height of the housing bubble / economy probably had something to do with it.

EZZ

I think many value straight line over handling and perceive primary performance on that metric. I can't tell you how many times I've read that the FSport on the 350 provides only cosmetic changes with no performance benefits. Completely wrong as the variable suspension is a performance upgrade!

There is no doubt in my mind that the 3IS is much a much more balanced and enjoyable vehicle vs the 2IS. The 3IS just handles great. But to others the 2IS may have been more enjoyable because it was faster in a straight line. I think people that just love to drive would find the 3IS more enjoyable though.

rob stolen

iTrader: (2)

Although I can agree with some of what you're saying concerning BMW's longstanding heritage, the fact that the current gen IS sold LESS cars than the 2nd gen (during the same time period), it proves that Lexus's approach in the luxury/performance division is failing. They sold less cars, which means less activity on these forums. Simple and plain. This applies across the board to ALL of the performance-orientated Lexus vehicles in their lineup. The GS, RC, and RCF are ALL selling terribly.

I owned an 2006 IS350 (which I really liked btw), and that car was tested in the mid 13's in many of the major publications. The current 3rd gen IS is always in the low 14's. The current car is slower. There's no way around it. That coupled with its polarizing styling is hurting the 3rd gen IS sales. And it's only going to get worse.

And I'm not sure where you're basing your info on, but the current 335i is KNOWN for having little to ZERO turbo lag. You must not be familiar with BMW b/c that's one the major reasons BMW changed to the N55 engine from the N54 in 2012 (twin turbo to twin scroll turbo). And one the reasons why I currently own a F30 335i. There is almost ZERO lag. The car just flies.

On the other hand, I do vividly remember back in 08/09 here on Clublexus many forum members complaining about the 2GR-FSE 2.5 V6 IS250 engine. A bunch of complaints about its severe lack of power while it drank too much gas for what you got out of it. And I recall a VERY long thread about how it had a really bad problem with carbon deposits due to its direct-injection engine.


...I found the thread. Wasn't hard to find LOL. Nearly 1300 posts with almost 260,000 views! Even worse, the thread is still being updated today and is on the FIRST PAGE of the 2nd gen IS forums. Are you freaking kidding me? Reminds me of the startup grind noise fiasco with the 350 engine. My 06 350 had to have the engine torn apart twice to replace the cam gears as a result. What a headache.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...d-threads.html

rob stolen

iTrader: (2)

EXACTLY! Thank you. I first thought it was just my imagination, but that quickly changed as I continued to check the 3IS forums on a daily basis. I soon realized that there's so much LESS activity/traffic here than the first couple years of the 2nd gen IS.

I was just checking the "Suspension" section of this forum and there's only 2 to 3 new posts. During the same time frame range for the 2IS, there were pages and pages of new posts and threads. Definitely a clear indicator of sales for the current car.

I agree with 100% of what you're saying. I'm sure the 3IS drives much better than the 2IS, but straight line performance is also VERY important to many folks. I'm actually currently considering a 3IS IS350, but the car's raw performance is really giving me pause. That and the fact there's no memory seats, HUD, surround view camera, and other items Lexus does not offer that my F30 335i currently has.

salvadorik

iTrader: (1)

335i does fly no doubt about that but compared to NA throttle response, there is discernable turbo lag. Not saying it is major but it is there. Yes bmw made improvements going twin scroll turbo (one for lower rpm and one for mid and up rpm). NA engines will always have better throttle response no matter how well you design your turbos. let me tell you smth here, i am not saying it is better or worse. It is just a matter of an individual preference.

Why cant you talk about f30's chassis, steering feel, overall suspension setup? F30 chose a different route that is opposite of performance, bmw wanted to make it more confortable. The result? In corners IS350 F sport feels a lot better, sure footed, light, agile. It is a joy to drive it. Once you accelerate and you keep rpm above 5K, 3IS
is amazing. If you are drive on twisties both f30 335i and is350 f sport the odds are with lexus. 3IS may lose on the straight line but it picks up in corners. Yeah yeah there are a lot pros and cons of both vehicles. Yet In my opinion, from pure performance and driving joy standpoint my vote goes to Lexus IS350 F sport. Where bimmer excells (other than an apparent powertrain advantage) is all the tech that is available on 3 series, it makes a lot more expensive though. Compared to bmw tech IS350 feels a generation behind, i have to acknowledge.

By the way 2GR-FSE has always been 3.5L V6 that is currently on IS350, GS350 and their F Sport variations. NOT 2.5 V6 found on IS250. Both engines are reliable especially, the 3.5 one. It has always been bulet proof. Super rare to have an engine failure and very very rare to have less severe engine problems. Simply look at this engines fuel delivery system, both direct injection and port injection are used to avoid carbon buildup. It is by desigh very sound and reliable motor that will work like a new for several hundreds thousand miles, if you take care of it.

rob stolen

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, it's all coming back to me now again. It's been some time. The 2.5 V6's designation is 4GR and 350 is 2GR. But I gotta disagree with you about the both engines being bulletproof. The carbon issue is real for IS250 and the the startup grind noise issue is real for 350's V6. I had to have my engine taken apart twice as a result (actually 3X when you include the valve recall issue). And the cam gears that replaced is only a temporary fix. It will happen again with time. Happened to me and many other forum members. I also remember way, way back how Lobuxracer (forum moderator) got rid of his 350 b/c he knew the fix Lexus had was not a permanent one.

And the startup grind noise begins to rear its ugly head after you reach higher mileage. I'm not certain if Lexus finally found a permanent fix for the 3rd gen IS (I would imagine more than likely at this point since it's been almost 10 years), but if not, it's something to be mindful of. The repair is in the thousands if you're out of warranty. And current 3IS owners won't begin seeing it until they hit higher miles.

But ultimately, both the IS250 and IS350 engines were NOT bulletproof historically. They've had their fair share of problems. Pretty serious problems actually. I would imagine they've been addressed them by now since Lexus has been and still using them in their cars for nearly a decade, LOL.

I found it:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...hreads-65.html

I haven't driven a 3rd gen IS50 yet, but I can tell you my car handles exceptionally well with DHP and VSS (an option that most 335's being sold on dealer lots do not have unless you special order). And nothing beats adding 60hp with just a BMS Stage 1 tune that only involved swapping two wire plugs and a total of 3 minutes. Late 12's in the 1/4 with just a tune alone.

But I do want to check out the 3rd gen IS350 and see what has changed from the 2nd gen. I know its straight-line performance will probably disappoint me, so I'll need to get a feel for the whole car.

salvadorik

iTrader: (1)

I am not gonna blame customers who choose german cars over IS350. Who I am to judge if I jumped from 2014 IS350 F Sport to 2015 Audi S3. I could not resist that thrust that turbos provide and as you properly noted the opportunity to gain another 60-80hp with just a simple ECU flash. The possibilities are immense if one wants to get the most out of his/her bmw/audi, there is stage I, stage II, stage III and etc.

But I owned 3IS for more than a year and drove about 25K miles. I also drove various bmws, audi etc and I am telling you, Lexus nailed this car's handling. The suspension and chassis comes track ready right out of the box.

Please test drive it first and don't just take it to the freeway back and forth. Take to some good twisties where this car's natural habitat is. After you have done, then we will talk again,

Been nice conversing with you.