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I will appreciate a car that will trump German cars in resale value even with 5 year old technology with maps and the integration. By the way most smart phones will out perform car tech. enjoy
Come on now guys.
Naturally aspirated or forced induction - they both have their good and bad points.
Atmospheric multivalve engines have ruled for nearly 30 years since the late 1980's; I don't think small capacity turbos with forced induction will be able to sustain a comeback for that long.
Ten years is probably the most we'll get out of small capacity turbos.
I tested a friend's Tesla S last week, and electric motors may trump both natural & forced induction within 5 years!
Hybrids are just a stop gap, while I suspect hydrogen powered electric vehicles may never eventuate due to complex set up of liquid hydrogen infrastructure, meanwhile a supercharged electric power recharging station is a relatively easy infrastructure set up.
lexus has build a great powertrain but they are couple years behind the germans, as usual they will catch up and exceed the germans at their own games.
As usual? Since when have they even started? They really shook things up with the first LS and SC, but since then Lexus has been getting their asses kicked. Check out BMW's lineup and compare it to the snooze-fest at the Lexus dealer. Sure, the IS is a good sporty sedan (I bought one), and Lexus has their niche of buyers looking for a soft, dull, quiet, reliable vehicle, but the Germans are maintaining their lead.
After following the VW fiasco and digging deep into how inefficient the Germans really are and how they push products before their time -- I have a renewed appreciation for the smart progressions the Japanese make. For example, how many know Toyota patented a port/DI hybrid system to mitigate carbon build up? Not splashy but very smart. Now GM and others license the tech.
I would not condemn the Germans in general for VW's ****-up. They just didn't do it right (doing it right means urea injection).
As for the carbon issue, that's more of a beneficial side-effect of Toyota's system, not an original design goal (which was all about power and efficiency).
although bmw has been kicking lexus and mb butt, they are on target to be the luxury leader going in to the end of december, i still think lexus has carved out a sweet spot that bmw is missing. i will go into more detail later heading to work, but the interesting thing is every day i think in my head i miss something about my lexus, then i drive my 5 and some of the engineering is so spot on that i smile and glad i made the move to play for a couple of years.
everyday i am blown away at the automatic in the 5 absolutely perfect, never sleeps, always ready,
love the three mode settings like the lexus but when i put it in sport its just visceral in a way that goes beyond the is or gs 350 good feeling of the sport plus mode its like my 5 is part of me and i can do anything within limits. their tech is so far ahead of the japanese its almost ridiculous. you would think with the attention to detail the japanese have in their design and build process you would think they would equal the germans.. my nav system, i drive. traffic integration, map detail, scroll wheel to zoom in and out etc etc. is like some team of guys in munich sat in a room for 4 years developing a real integrated system that ties into daily lives.
THEY PROBABLY WERE IN THE SAME ROOM FOR 5 YEARS, ITS DONE RIGHT
SAFE DRVING AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS
also regarding resale value, bmw's are bad real bad with inflated residuals on leases, but as i was reading this thread and the comments about resale value of the is maybe take a ride over to car max, there was a guy on the is thread or gs thread that he had a 54k car was offered 30 or 31 after 7000 miles
i do think lexus resell blows away the germans but like the rc i think the is is over inflated by 10k for margins for toyota this should be a 40 k car out the door loaded.
and i love the is for what it is, i am just pointing out those reading and making a buy determination based on resale of the germans just open your eyes whats going on with the market. the cpo route i did i will still have 4 k of downside risk if i don't keep it for three years, 5k i can live with 15-20 is a different story
cpo lexus making a lot of sense especially with the older motor technology that goes three years back
The IS350 at $50k is still cheaper than a comparatively equipped 328. I'm not even talking about the 335/340 which is around $60k fully loaded. The 335/340 has a better engine / tranny combo than the IS350 but the chassis is disappointing. I'd rather have the Is350 v6 over the 328 inline 4 turbo. It's smoother, more responsive, and has better pull up top. I couldn't care less about mpg.
I kinda think BMW has lost its way and their engineering isn't as good as it once was. Japan, Korea, and America has pretty much caught up in all respects. Hell, Mercedes best handling vehicle pretty much spanks anything the BMW produces.
I would not condemn the Germans in general for VW's ****-up. They just didn't do it right (doing it right means urea injection).
As for the carbon issue, that's more of a beneficial side-effect of Toyota's system, not an original design goal (which was all about power and efficiency).
The German people have sold the world a bill of goods -- they've sold a brand that isn't a reality. Read the article referenced below. It covers a lot of territory and digs deep:
"VW Destroys Myth of Efficient Germans. Deutchland’s industrial companies have never been run like dictatorships—even under Hitler. Volkswagen is a bloated boondoggle that had to cheat to compete."
All I know is that Toyota introduced their hybrid system which eliminates carbon build up right around the time Audis were dropping dead from carbon build up and even Toyotas were struggling with the issue. Lucky? Maybe so. Do you have material to support your premise about the hybrid system and Toyota's design goals?
The German people have sold the world a bill of goods -- they've sold a brand that isn't a reality. Read the article referenced below. It covers a lot of territory and digs deep:
"VW Destroys Myth of Efficient Germans. Deutchland’s industrial companies have never been run like dictatorships—even under Hitler. Volkswagen is a bloated boondoggle that had to cheat to compete."
All I know is that Toyota introduced their hybrid system which eliminates carbon build up right around the time Audis were dropping dead from carbon build up and even Toyotas were struggling with the issue. Lucky? Maybe so. Do you have material to support your premise about the hybrid system and Toyota's design goals?
Other than VW's F-up, the article you linked-to is garbage from top to bottom. Ridiculing their war-time efforts, when pretty-much everything they made out-classed what the allies made? Really? If they hadn't invaded Russia they would probably still be occupying all of Europe. Good luck with your "D-Day" with the entire German army sitting on the French coast.
In any case, the present success of the German economy, and its car makers, speaks for itself.
Read the attached paper on the design goals of the 2GR-FSE. Nothing about carbon build-up.
Other than VW's F-up, the article you linked-to is garbage from top to bottom. Ridiculing their war-time efforts, when pretty-much everything they made out-classed what the allies made? Really? If they hadn't invaded Russia they would probably still be occupying all of Europe. Good luck with your "D-Day" with the entire German army sitting on the French coast.
In any case, the present success of the German economy, and its car makers, speaks for itself.
Read the attached paper on the design goals of the 2GR-FSE. Nothing about carbon build-up.
Your post is pretty much garbage because it's simply a general reflection of your opinions. Where is your evidence that the Germans were the super people you'd like us to believe? Hitler was under the guidance of a discredited quack doctor who had him on every drug, steroid, and herb imaginable, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Morell. His troops were addicted to Pertivin, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...narcotics.html. Hardly the making of a sustainable world take over model. I suspect you are a dilettante who fancies himself a guru just like he thinks the Germans are superior and everything they do is better than anybody else. Don't ever call anything I do garbage which implies intellectual laziness. You do not want to drag it down to a personal level. I have no interest in reading you attached paper -- maybe others will. Have a nice day.
whats garbage is your rhetoric you sound like an angry old 1990 lexus ls owner who has his first pair of underwear,
wasn't going to respond but the forum is for all to provide real information and share reality not sugar coat the lexus candy. happy holidays to all
I am EU 5-series owner. Back in 2013 i was in need of replacing an older 2007 BMW 325xi E90. It was a very basic equipped slow and thirsty car, but I've chosen it for it's quietness and smoothness which lasted for whole 6 years and the same i was expecting from a new one. Unfortunately NA 6 cylinders were already gone, Turbo 6 cylinders were known for their fallacy... new 3 series was nice in showroom, but test drive on 55k € car felt almost like on any 15k € maybe because only 4 cylinder diesels were available for testing. I saw i must go higher into 5 series and petrol 4 cylinder F10 528i xDrive LCI
First days with it were great. Engine was really smooth, quiet and new fake sound generator was making nice and very loud growl in high revs similar to V8. At low revs engine was absolutely nonhearable. Transmission pulls always highest possible gear, so there was usual 900 rpm slight uphill cruising.
Today 2,5 years later, the cars performs like new but it is absolutely not smooth, not quiet and fake engine sound is drowned out by real engine noise. Vibrations at low revs under 1500rpm are really bad, engine sounds like it is going to fall into pieces. Interior rattles randomly from everywhere. Car remained relatively smooth and quiet only in range 2000-3000 rpm. Comparing to previous 3 series the car feels like Chinese fake copy. Looks like BMW, but doesn't behave like old BMW.
And now a more important comparison with current Lexus IS. In my country, Lexus cars are very rare, there is only one Lexus dealer, 130 miles/210km from my home. Once I was passing around, and decided to make a stop to check what that Lexus really is. 1st sight it was nothing special, crazy design. I open door and sat down on smooth leather seats. Very nice when compared to my BMW Dakota leather. Plastics didn't looked the best, but they were nicer even, those hard, than BMW, nothing squeaked. I tried IS 300h F-Sport and IS 250 Premium. Ergonomics, for me very fine, low driver's position. Both cars were equally if no more comfortable on 19" tires than my 5 series on 17". Both cars were much quieter and smoother than my 5 series in low and high revs too. CVT transmission behaves slightly unusual for me, but i liked it too because I'm comfort oriented driver. V6 sounds great, but also R4 in 300h is nicer than n20 in my BMW. The biggest difference is when You open windows. BMW rattles like old diesel tractor even when warmed up. Lexus is always a whispering flower... Because i didn't find any problem with a car, i decided to switch to Lexus IS250 in 2016, after my 5 series leasing finish. But one year before, IS250 got replacement IS200T. I said: Oh no, it will be the same crap like my 528. The only dealer we have, gave me for a spin the last available IS250, it was already used as demo car and a lot of cigarette smell was inside. Anyway the car was great, much less NVH inside and outside than my 528 with similar mileage. First car available with new engine was NX200t which I tried too. I didn't like it very much. Nice seats, but hard suspension and noisy engine. I thought IS200t would be the same. In October 2015 the first IS200t came. I decided to try it. I was really surprised with it! Start up with windows down - quiet, no diesel clattering engine like N20, no farting exhaust like N20, no vibrations on launch. When driving the car is deadly quiet. I was driving 70km/h but it feels like 40km/h in 528. I didn't try performance, it is not important for me, as we have almost more police cruisers than civil cars on the roads.
The car is also smaller than 5 series, so better for our tiny parking lots.
About things like Navigation, security system... I am not interested in them. 4 Years old navigation is out of date and i really don't need it, because i know my everyday route. All other i don't need for driving.
About sound system. As You know Lexus had always the best.
My conclusion: Lexus IS XE30 is the best car for comfort oriented drivers in Europe. IS250 now only used, great but not efficient. IS300h great and efficient, but slightly less refined engine. IS200t for me is number one. Great engine refinement, silky smooth, relatively good efficiency, slightly cheaper than hybrid.
For all Lexus sedans sold here, there are also few disadvantages:
no AWD models available. I live in area with occasional snow storms and icy roads. Since 2013 i have 528xi, there was 1 snow storm.
Less customizable cars. For example, i like F-Sport shiny blue metallic paint and light gray leather. This is not available here. F-Sport can be only all black inside, or red leather. Non F-Sport can be also gray inside but not shiny blue outside.
Only one dealer, only two authorized repair/service providers for a whole country.
12-07-15, 11:58 AM
F10 528i xDrive LCI