brendanf

Your entire message implies that AWD is the way to go and that because they sell so many of them they naturally must be better in the snow. That is a baseless fact. You don't know what people are thinking when they buy a car. You only know what YOU thought when you made your decision.

And I do live in the GTA, I drive all day for work, and besides the giant transports I see plenty of non SUV's and cars that don't come with AWD.

As for reading previous posts.. You should try that too.. I never said I bought a RWD.

I'm not the one getting hostile. Your the one that seems to be taking things too personally.

Anyway I'm done with this thread. It is about time it gets back on topic.

nocxx2

Yes, let's really let the thread get on topic, because you had no point to begin with here. Seriously, why did you even type all that? Instead of reading what I typed and just taking that at face value, you're trying to tell me what I was "implying". I wonder what it is that you do for work, because I'm having a hard time believing a responsible adult can be this juvenile online.

Sales numbers are the representation of what consumers want, buy and what the supplier will provide. Canada, because of its weather and consequently road conditions, is not a market where RWD are very successful. Yes, there does exist a market for RWD enthusiasts, but those consumers are a small minority. This is evident from the sales of AWD vs RWD IS 350 models year over year. This is also because the RWD option is only offered on the 200t (I'm not sure about 300), because the 200t is an enthusiast/starter/entry level model.

You are entitled to your opinion that RWD can be safe and effective in snowy Canadian conditions, given the right tires and driving ability, but the fact remains, AWD will work better in the end, by default. People bought more AWD than RWD and will continue to, which is why Lexus is only offering AWD in 350. This is a fact. Based on sales numbers. That is how economics works.

Sango

iTrader: (10)

AWD not having a pre-requisite isn't true. The tires matter regardless of drive train of the vehicle (RWD/FWD/AWD).

You can have a look at the tire rack video and see for yourself.

http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=23
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=116

My RWD on winters can outperform and handle better than my AWD IS which I used to have which was on all-seasons prior in the winter. Also don't forget the stopping and gripping power with the proper tires as well.

nocxx2

I should have clarified myself. When I said AWD need not satisfy pre-requisites that RWD do, I did not wish to discount the importance of winter tires vs all season or summer tires. Of course winter tires will out perform all season tires on any given day, that IS the point, isn't it? So, it does not need to be restated explicitly for the sake of weighing in on a point in discussion.

I do not want to mistake your point though, so I must ask you, are you saying that RWD cars can not only perform just as well but even better than AWD cars in winter conditions?

P.S. I watched both the videos you linked, and as stated earlier, I do not discount the importance of snow tires vs all season. This discussion is about AWD and RWD on the whole.

GregCanada

I trust the wife in her AWD with snow tires over a RWD with snow tires any day. She is not a bad driver, but i feel much more relaxed during a big snow storm that she will make it home fine. If she had a RWD with winters - she would be *****ing at me about how the damn thing slides everywhere. I notice a traction increase, as well as better steering response with AWD, it will pull you through a corner.

I have quite a few friends that drive RWD in the winter, but they know what they're doing when the car starts to drift, and they enjoy it. For people that don't like that feeling, we have AWD. I think the fact that it can take off quickly is huge, i've been sitting at lights with people coming up behind me, not able to stop. It's nice being able to safely get out of their way. Oh, and not holding up traffic...

Sango

iTrader: (10)

Yes, that was what I was trying to say, about the RWD can perform better in AWD in winter. If one is going up steep inclines about 15% or greater all the time, ok then the AWD will come in handy. AWD mainly helps you start off better from a stand still but everything is about the same.

Also to consider, because of AWD the car is going to be heavier than the RWD vehicle, it will not help with stopping.

There was one other point I wanted to mention however I gotten how it was explained to me from a co-worker who knows more about driving than me considering he takes his cars on the track (licensed) and has taken defensive driving school. It's the physics/mechanics when the car gets in a spin that the RWD can get out of it but more difficult on FWD and AWD due to the nature of how the drive train works. It involves the use of throttle steering.

nocxx2

Thanks for the clarification.
I'm just amazed, as it boggles my mind how confidently you put yourself behind those claims. I mean absolutely no disrespect to your driving prowess, but you have just stated, in no uncertain terms that RWD vehicles outperform AWD vehicles, in snowy conditions. Have we all been lied to all this time? All the science behind AWD, the R&D, the extra costs associated with it all, you mean to tell me that it has all been just a myth, a mere sales ploy to charge clueless consumers a premium?

You could have at least laid a better claim by saying something along the lines of an RWD with excellent snow tires and a driver who knows how to handle understeer and has mastered traction in slippery conditions vs an AWD with all weather tires and a novice, clueless driver, the RWD would come on top, but otherwise AWD is the safest bet, as it is designed, engineered and built for the very purpose of better handling and traction in testing road conditions.

I don't even know why I'm discussing this anymore. I gotta take this thread, the posts in here by some to the media and break this AWD myth the automotive industry's been selling us all these years.

Sango

iTrader: (10)

I don't read into the claims, I try them out to see for myself to see if it really matters.

Actually, you missed the part where I saw AWD doesn't help with braking because it's heavier. That means longer brake distance in comparison with RWD, that's implying performance.

Paying the premium is only if you really need it. Otherwise it's not worth it and don't forget, since the car is more heavier, it uses more fuel.

AWD cars do have their market for the people who need them. The sales ploy, well there can be some, that depends if the sales person tries to be a slime ball and get to get you into a car that's in their lot instead of car that you want which isn't there.

I did have a sales guy try to ploy me to go for another AWD IS when I wanted to go to the RWD. Tried to convince me because of the climate... It's like, I know how to drive and use the right tires.

Ultimately, having correct tires and AWD doesn't mean anything if one doesn't know how to control their car to begin with. The same also applies to to RWD and FWD as well. Just practice your car by bringing it an empty parking lot where you can't hit anything. From there, purposely lose control, slide and spin it out to get used it, to be able to learn how to control the car to get out of those situations.

panda327

iTrader: (3)

These Canadian packages really sucks >< not only do you have to pay more for less now ... (is350 awd base is now more expensive with less features with 1 up fsport package) i can't believe something simple as memory seat is not standardized across the line up.

Sango

iTrader: (10)

Agreed. The GM of Lexus Canada needs to make a better decision on what to bring. We will have to see what they do for 2017 if they improve their line up.

Originally I was going to go for 2016 Lexus IS for Canada but after learning about the disappoint for the line up, I will go with getting the US car since their package has the features I want.

My0gr81

I guess the marketing dollars spent on AWD worked on you. As I said before, most AWD in consumer vehicles today are not true symmetrical AWD, except for Subaru, so they are either FWD or RWD biased to begin with. When you get your RAV4 AWD, you are getting a FWD most of the time. Under the conditions you described before for a respectful driver with proper tires, the AWD system should never have to kick in, thus negating the need.

Is there a safety advantage to AWD, yes. Is it a requirement here to have it, and one can't see the logic of not buying it? Technically, no, but it is a matter of personal opinion and choice.

My0gr81

is that what you do when you don't have a retort based on logic? Dismiss the message or the messenger? 100% of your post being filed with "don't know what I am talking about, but I have an opinion category".

While we don't have the corporate intelligence data that speak to Lexus' decision to limit RWD in this market. It would fair to say market allocation and regional sales figure have more to do with it than technical advantage of one drive system over another?

dizlex

There are no "great driving skills" required. Modern stability control systems make RWD cars very easy to drive in the snow. I will also quibble with your "ideal winter tires" comment. Any good-quality Winter tires will suffice. I run Dunlop Winter Sports.

dizlex

Obviously AWD helps in the snow. But it certainly is not a requirement, for many city drivers, and there are real disadvantages in cost and performance. I truly believe part of the AWD push is just to get more money out of your pocket.

AWD is great for those who don't want to bother with swapping tires/wheels twice year. Those who swap will enjoy much better-performing tires, optimized for their season.

Eis

I think most people in Canada wants AWD. My first Lexus was an IS 250 RWD 6-speed. It was a brand-new leftover model that I picked up at $1.5K above trade-in value. (I sold it at $2K below what I paid for it later, but when I was selling it, most people wanted to low-ball me - the reason most lowballers gave me was not the manual transmission, but non-AWD.)

My current car is a GS RWD from the US. There were times when I wanted AWD, such as one time in a parking lot where the rear wheels were on ice and had no traction, and the front-driving wheels were on dry pavement. Getting stuck in the parking lot like a beached whale was not fun.