Stains in Wheels
07-09-15, 10:21 AM
#1
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Stains in Wheels
I've recently noticed weird stains in two of my wheels (both on passenger side). I've attached photos. I've tried a wide variety of cleaners and can't get them out. I can't feel the stains on the surface either. I did some quick Google searches and came across the following thread which describes my issue exactly - even the photos are a really close match:
http://www.myg37.com/forums/car-care...ls-help-4.html
According to this thread, the general consensus is that these aren't actually "stains." Rather they are a case where the paint finish has been eaten off. This would explain why I can't get the "stains" out.
My initial thought was to call an Alloy Wheel Repair guy to come out to my house and refinish the wheels. But it seems some Infiniti dealers have been refinishing (or even replacing) rims with defective finish issues and covering them under warranty.
Do you think I should contact my dealer? What is the best tact to take to try to cover this under warranty? I don't want to spend a lot of time on this. If I can get the AWR guy to come out to my house and charge me $125 per wheel, I'd rather do that than haggle with a dealer. I run my own business and time is money.
http://www.myg37.com/forums/car-care...ls-help-4.html
According to this thread, the general consensus is that these aren't actually "stains." Rather they are a case where the paint finish has been eaten off. This would explain why I can't get the "stains" out.
My initial thought was to call an Alloy Wheel Repair guy to come out to my house and refinish the wheels. But it seems some Infiniti dealers have been refinishing (or even replacing) rims with defective finish issues and covering them under warranty.
Do you think I should contact my dealer? What is the best tact to take to try to cover this under warranty? I don't want to spend a lot of time on this. If I can get the AWR guy to come out to my house and charge me $125 per wheel, I'd rather do that than haggle with a dealer. I run my own business and time is money.
07-09-15, 10:27 AM
#2
Lexus Champion
I would suggest that you post this in the auto detailing forum. You'll be able to get ideas from some very knowledgeable folks on how to both clean and prevent wheel stains.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/aut...detailing-122/
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/aut...detailing-122/
07-09-15, 12:40 PM
#3
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I thought about that, but I don't think it's a stain, rather it's an absence of paint. I'm sure the right cleaner could remove a stain. But no cleaner in the world is going to add the missing paint back.
Based on what I learned in the Infiniti thread, the dark areas aren't a stain - rather that's the color of the undercoat paint. The brighter paint has been corroded on the top, thus the darker undercoat is showing through in certain spots.
It's almost like some strong chemical was used on the wheels that ate the paint off. I only use "safe for all wheels stuff" so perhaps it happened when I took it to the car wash?
Based on what I learned in the Infiniti thread, the dark areas aren't a stain - rather that's the color of the undercoat paint. The brighter paint has been corroded on the top, thus the darker undercoat is showing through in certain spots.
It's almost like some strong chemical was used on the wheels that ate the paint off. I only use "safe for all wheels stuff" so perhaps it happened when I took it to the car wash?
07-09-15, 01:26 PM
#4
The pursuit of F
It might be tough to convince your dealer the issue occurred due to poor workmanship since the distinct pattern of lines do indicate a harsh chemical went in contact and possibly while the wheel was in motion.
You can certainly try especially if you have a good relationship with your dealer/service dept and they can write it off as a defect. Send them an email with pics if you want to save time and if the answer is no, bite bullet and get them repaired as you stated since you're limited in time.
Good luck,
You can certainly try especially if you have a good relationship with your dealer/service dept and they can write it off as a defect. Send them an email with pics if you want to save time and if the answer is no, bite bullet and get them repaired as you stated since you're limited in time.
Good luck,
07-09-15, 01:29 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
I would still post in the detailing forum. The forum doesn't just cover detailing, but also repairs, paint, etc. I think you'll get some good feedback on how best to proceed, and how to prevent it from happening again.
I had some similar marks on my wheels. It can be frustrating. Mine, however, were stains and I was able to remove them.
If it truly is a paint failure, I'd definitely have the dealer take a look.
I had some similar marks on my wheels. It can be frustrating. Mine, however, were stains and I was able to remove them.
If it truly is a paint failure, I'd definitely have the dealer take a look.
07-09-15, 01:56 PM
#6
Did you buy your car new or used? The reason I ask is because I had one of my wheels repaired after I curbed it really badly while driving (as opposed to parking) and something similar happened. Initially, the repair looked perfect, but after a few weeks I noticed dark stains similar to those in your pictures. I took it back to the shop and they said it was likely due to a defect in the paint they used to spray the wheel. They did the repair again and repainted the damaged portion of the wheel with a new batch of paint free of charge. Its been about six months and I haven't had any problems. If you bought it used, it might have been previously repaired...
07-09-15, 02:14 PM
#7
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Did you buy your car new or used? The reason I ask is because I had one of my wheels repaired after I curbed it really badly while driving (as opposed to parking) and something similar happened. Initially, the repair looked perfect, but after a few weeks I noticed dark stains similar to those in your pictures. I took it back to the shop and they said it was likely due to a defect in the paint they used to spray the wheel. They did the repair again and repainted the damaged portion of the wheel with a new batch of paint free of charge. Its been about six months and I haven't had any problems. If you bought it used, it might have been previously repaired...
However, that doesn't explain the identical marks on the rear wheel. Also, I've used the same guy on several other wheels (various cars over the years) and never had this issue before. So, I kinda tossed this theory out the window. IF it wasn't for the fact the rear wheel has the same issue, I'd certainly be more likely to point my finger at a possible shoddy wheel repair job.
This first appeared after a trip to a car wash. I'm wondering if they used some overly-harsh chemicals?
I'll try posting to the detailers forum and see what they say...
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07-09-15, 10:18 PM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
Glad to find this thread. You are not alone. I have similar "stains" on my wheels (The wheel industry generally refers this finish as Hypersilver) but not as bad as yours.
Mine were caused by the tire shop who have been careful with my wheels and yet some "stains"/marks were done near the edge of the wheels. Then after bringing to a wheel repair shop, I learned more about how they make this hyper silver finish.
Actually there is a black paint underneath the silver paint to make the hypersilver/graphite color. The painting process is quite complex. What I was told by the wheel repair shop is the silver coat used on my Lexus wheels is quite thin. So the silver paint is not as thick as the regular silver wheels and with some slight contact which is a result of tire changing process, the black paint will show off.
http://www.leprecon.ca/rim-repair-hyper-silver
I find the finish is quite poor quality. Mine is only 8000KM and yet these stains already show up. Recently, I found another long stain which may be done by debris on the road.
Actually when some polish with low to medium cut is applied with machine polishing, you can easily get to the black paint already.
For chemical, a normal car wash or proper wheel cleaner won't cause such damage though.
I think Lexus is actually cheapening the quality of the wheels these days. Our 2011 RX also come with hypersilver/graphite wheels and those wheels have thicker paint and they don't have this kind of stains even after 4 years of driving.
PS: I find these wheels for 3IS appear to have thinner finish than say, the one for Infiniti while I was visiting the wheel repair shop
Mine were caused by the tire shop who have been careful with my wheels and yet some "stains"/marks were done near the edge of the wheels. Then after bringing to a wheel repair shop, I learned more about how they make this hyper silver finish.
Actually there is a black paint underneath the silver paint to make the hypersilver/graphite color. The painting process is quite complex. What I was told by the wheel repair shop is the silver coat used on my Lexus wheels is quite thin. So the silver paint is not as thick as the regular silver wheels and with some slight contact which is a result of tire changing process, the black paint will show off.
http://www.leprecon.ca/rim-repair-hyper-silver
I find the finish is quite poor quality. Mine is only 8000KM and yet these stains already show up. Recently, I found another long stain which may be done by debris on the road.
Actually when some polish with low to medium cut is applied with machine polishing, you can easily get to the black paint already.
For chemical, a normal car wash or proper wheel cleaner won't cause such damage though.
I think Lexus is actually cheapening the quality of the wheels these days. Our 2011 RX also come with hypersilver/graphite wheels and those wheels have thicker paint and they don't have this kind of stains even after 4 years of driving.
PS: I find these wheels for 3IS appear to have thinner finish than say, the one for Infiniti while I was visiting the wheel repair shop
Last edited by AndyL; 07-09-15 at 10:25 PM.
07-10-15, 03:27 AM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
Glad to find this thread. You are not alone. I have similar "stains" on my wheels (The wheel industry generally refers this finish as Hypersilver) but not as bad as yours.
Mine were caused by the tire shop who have been careful with my wheels and yet some "stains"/marks were done near the edge of the wheels. Then after bringing to a wheel repair shop, I learned more about how they make this hyper silver finish.
Actually there is a black paint underneath the silver paint to make the hypersilver/graphite color. The painting process is quite complex. What I was told by the wheel repair shop is the silver coat used on my Lexus wheels is quite thin. So the silver paint is not as thick as the regular silver wheels and with some slight contact which is a result of tire changing process, the black paint will show off.
http://www.leprecon.ca/rim-repair-hyper-silver
I find the finish is quite poor quality. Mine is only 8000KM and yet these stains already show up. Recently, I found another long stain which may be done by debris on the road.
Actually when some polish with low to medium cut is applied with machine polishing, you can easily get to the black paint already.
For chemical, a normal car wash or proper wheel cleaner won't cause such damage though.
I think Lexus is actually cheapening the quality of the wheels these days. Our 2011 RX also come with hypersilver/graphite wheels and those wheels have thicker paint and they don't have this kind of stains even after 4 years of driving.
PS: I find these wheels for 3IS appear to have thinner finish than say, the one for Infiniti while I was visiting the wheel repair shop
Mine were caused by the tire shop who have been careful with my wheels and yet some "stains"/marks were done near the edge of the wheels. Then after bringing to a wheel repair shop, I learned more about how they make this hyper silver finish.
Actually there is a black paint underneath the silver paint to make the hypersilver/graphite color. The painting process is quite complex. What I was told by the wheel repair shop is the silver coat used on my Lexus wheels is quite thin. So the silver paint is not as thick as the regular silver wheels and with some slight contact which is a result of tire changing process, the black paint will show off.
http://www.leprecon.ca/rim-repair-hyper-silver
I find the finish is quite poor quality. Mine is only 8000KM and yet these stains already show up. Recently, I found another long stain which may be done by debris on the road.
Actually when some polish with low to medium cut is applied with machine polishing, you can easily get to the black paint already.
For chemical, a normal car wash or proper wheel cleaner won't cause such damage though.
I think Lexus is actually cheapening the quality of the wheels these days. Our 2011 RX also come with hypersilver/graphite wheels and those wheels have thicker paint and they don't have this kind of stains even after 4 years of driving.
PS: I find these wheels for 3IS appear to have thinner finish than say, the one for Infiniti while I was visiting the wheel repair shop
Lexus traditionally has soft paint - hence why you dont go polishing any sort of paint with heavy compound before using light polishes first on any paint let alone Japanese paint.
The paint is put on by BBS who make the F-Sport wheels, the paint thickness is identical on an RX450h F-Sport like mine, a GS F-Sport, an IS F-Sport and also the LFA.
Ive seen plenty of used models at dealers, some with excess of 40k miles on original wheels and none of them have these issues so id say its a product that's causing the stains. i wouldnt be surprised if strong acids and strong alkaline wheel cleaners are being used - i use them but dilute them well down to 1:10 and I dont believe in polishing wheels - its stupid, you're just making the paint thinner so more chance of brake dust eating through. Use a glaze instead and add a good wax/sealant on top
07-10-15, 08:09 AM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
Have you actually measured the paint depth with a gauge to confirm this? No point throwing random statements around if it hasnt been proven.
Lexus traditionally has soft paint - hence why you dont go polishing any sort of paint with heavy compound before using light polishes first on any paint let alone Japanese paint.
The paint is put on by BBS who make the F-Sport wheels, the paint thickness is identical on an RX450h F-Sport like mine, a GS F-Sport, an IS F-Sport and also the LFA.
Ive seen plenty of used models at dealers, some with excess of 40k miles on original wheels and none of them have these issues so id say its a product that's causing the stains. i wouldnt be surprised if strong acids and strong alkaline wheel cleaners are being used - i use them but dilute them well down to 1:10 and I dont believe in polishing wheels - its stupid, you're just making the paint thinner so more chance of brake dust eating through. Use a glaze instead and add a good wax/sealant on top
Lexus traditionally has soft paint - hence why you dont go polishing any sort of paint with heavy compound before using light polishes first on any paint let alone Japanese paint.
The paint is put on by BBS who make the F-Sport wheels, the paint thickness is identical on an RX450h F-Sport like mine, a GS F-Sport, an IS F-Sport and also the LFA.
Ive seen plenty of used models at dealers, some with excess of 40k miles on original wheels and none of them have these issues so id say its a product that's causing the stains. i wouldnt be surprised if strong acids and strong alkaline wheel cleaners are being used - i use them but dilute them well down to 1:10 and I dont believe in polishing wheels - its stupid, you're just making the paint thinner so more chance of brake dust eating through. Use a glaze instead and add a good wax/sealant on top
To answer your question -- I didn't measure the paint with paint gauge on the wheels at that point since I bought the wheels to the wheel repair shop and they made a comment with a specific thickness that Toyota/Lexus does to recent wheels which I forgot.
To elaborate what I was doing to my poor non F Sport 5-spoke wheel 2 months ago -- I was trying to fix a stain or small scuff mark on one of the spokes caused by the tire shop (It is the green dot on the picture) and I ended up causing the silver paint to come off which reveals the black paint.
First I started with the least aggressive method by using CarPro Reflect on a Rupes white foam pad on a Rupes LHR 75e Mini (3" polisher) on the spot. It didn't do anything at all and I proceeded with Polish Angel Master Compound (older version with less cut) on either Rupes white or yellow foam pad. This PA Master Compound is about the same grade as the CarPro Fixer which more people are familiar with.
As there is a slight edge on the top of the spoke, I did pay attention but it was too late. My judgement was that the edge was not sharp enough to put masking tape. When the black paint was revealed, I stopped using the Polish Angel Master Compound and switched back to Car Pro Reflect (which is P3000 grade and hence less aggressive), but it continued to spread a bit. Then I stopped.
I didn't do any polishing on the other set of hyper silver wheels on my RX but judging from 4 years of ownership, there is no stain on the wheels. The paint just chips away.
Now, since the use of paint gauge is mentioned, it makes me curious and I did some measurement. The surprise is near the edge of the rims, the reading is in the range of 6-8mils. If I measure various portions of the spokes, the reading is above 10 mils. I think I saw 16 mils in some spots along the spokes as well. But the reading is affected by the fact that I put 2 coats of CarPro CQUK on the wheels as soon as I got the car.
I think the tricky part is the paint gauge measures the total of black paint, silver paint and the clear coat. What I was told by the rim repair company is the black paint is much thicker than the silver paint to save cost and to make customers buy more wheels as they see imperfection (black paint) at a earlier stage.
I will take some measurement on the wheels on my RX this weekend just for comparison (despite the tricky measurement still applies
PS: when I was in the showroom last week, I find the paint of F-Sport wheels on a 2015 IS is visually thicker than the one on my 2015 IS non F Sport wheels.
07-10-15, 08:28 AM
#13
Pole Position
Thread Starter
So it seems as though the consensus here is that the "stains" are indeed missing paint, thus the undercoat is showing through - not really a "stain" that can be removed by some cleaner?
Sounds like my best best is to just have the alloy wheel repair come out and do a quick respray? He typically only charges like ~$100 per wheel so that might be a better bet than messing around with the dealer, taking it to detail shops, etc.
Sounds like my best best is to just have the alloy wheel repair come out and do a quick respray? He typically only charges like ~$100 per wheel so that might be a better bet than messing around with the dealer, taking it to detail shops, etc.
08-25-15, 12:42 PM
#15
Driver School Candidate
Stains on wheels
I need help. I have a 2015 GX 460 with 4,000 miles on it. I went to the dealership to have them look at the wheels and they said this issue was on me. The dealership said some type of acid/cleaner was sprayed on the wheel. I have not sprayed anything on the wheel. I do believe that this is some kind of defect with the wheel. I have never had anything like this happen.
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