How?? - ML system upgrade
11-29-14, 11:03 PM
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How?? - ML system upgrade
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am one of many owners who is not overly happy with the stock ML audio system. I have visited a shop specializing in upgrading stereo systems and they offered whole a lot things. I really dont wanna overdo but the system needs to sound better. My threshhold is B&O found in A4/A5 etc. The shop suggested to replace speakers, amp and esp as well as do some dynamat at the back. That basically means to replace the entire system, which I think is overkill. Perhaps replacing amp will do it? What do you guys suggest? If anyone of you upgraded ML and happy about the uprgade please share what you did and how much you spent.
Thanks in advance,
Sal
I am one of many owners who is not overly happy with the stock ML audio system. I have visited a shop specializing in upgrading stereo systems and they offered whole a lot things. I really dont wanna overdo but the system needs to sound better. My threshhold is B&O found in A4/A5 etc. The shop suggested to replace speakers, amp and esp as well as do some dynamat at the back. That basically means to replace the entire system, which I think is overkill. Perhaps replacing amp will do it? What do you guys suggest? If anyone of you upgraded ML and happy about the uprgade please share what you did and how much you spent.
Thanks in advance,
Sal
Last edited by salvadorik; 11-30-14 at 01:40 AM.
11-30-14, 07:01 AM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
the easiest upgrade is to just get a small sub and amp.
disconnect the factory sub and use the signals from the factory amp to power a dedicated sub amp.
personally i wouldn't mess with a sealed box like most shops will install. most shops employ installers that lack the necessary skills to design and tune a properly built ported enclosure.
if done right in a ported application a single 8" would be plenty. it won't take up very much space at all in the trunk.
2nd option is to replace the factory amp. i would keep the factory speakers as they will take more wattage but the thing is the 875 watt system is not really 875 RMS watts it is probably closer to about 20 watts per channel.
you would be amazed at the additional volume you would get from a simple 35 watt per channel aftermarket amp.
i think JL makes a nice 6 channel small profile amp that would to the trick.
it should have enough power to run everything including the sub.
also you don't need any dynamat! whenever a shop starts recommending that i would run! this is a classic sign of a shop that likes to charge way too much money for things that just make them profit.
I've been installing for 25 years, 10 as a professional and the rest as a hobbyist
if i were doing the system for myself i would start with option A that would cost me all of about 100 for the sub and since i still have connections to buy from distributers i can get the amp at cost about 400 bucks.
i know a shop will want at least 2x that money to do the install.
if i went with option B i would additionally add the alpine digital signal processor or the Audison Bit one and 8 channel amp.
this way i could also tweak the time alignment which would help a lot. but that will add another 700 bucks to the project.
personally, i think the ML sounds good with 1 exception. if you listen to anything with heavy bass the free air sub in back simply cannot handle the high excursion needed to play that type of music.
but if you listen to ACTUAL music like rock and roll or country it sounds fantastic! in fact so good that to me and despite having the ability and experience not to mention the access to the equipment for less than your local shop pays for it. mine is staying stock.
don't get me wrong i like hip hop also but i think a lot of people listen to it because they want their friends to think they are cool. I'm 44 now and also a drummer so i appreciate all kinds of music.
i listen to country at the office (don't want to offend my clients) usually r&b in the cars and on long trips pretty much everything from rock, to jazz, to country, classic rock
usually volume setting lower than 50 works good on anything.
if you lived in colorado i would hook you up!
disconnect the factory sub and use the signals from the factory amp to power a dedicated sub amp.
personally i wouldn't mess with a sealed box like most shops will install. most shops employ installers that lack the necessary skills to design and tune a properly built ported enclosure.
if done right in a ported application a single 8" would be plenty. it won't take up very much space at all in the trunk.
2nd option is to replace the factory amp. i would keep the factory speakers as they will take more wattage but the thing is the 875 watt system is not really 875 RMS watts it is probably closer to about 20 watts per channel.
you would be amazed at the additional volume you would get from a simple 35 watt per channel aftermarket amp.
i think JL makes a nice 6 channel small profile amp that would to the trick.
it should have enough power to run everything including the sub.
also you don't need any dynamat! whenever a shop starts recommending that i would run! this is a classic sign of a shop that likes to charge way too much money for things that just make them profit.
I've been installing for 25 years, 10 as a professional and the rest as a hobbyist
if i were doing the system for myself i would start with option A that would cost me all of about 100 for the sub and since i still have connections to buy from distributers i can get the amp at cost about 400 bucks.
i know a shop will want at least 2x that money to do the install.
if i went with option B i would additionally add the alpine digital signal processor or the Audison Bit one and 8 channel amp.
this way i could also tweak the time alignment which would help a lot. but that will add another 700 bucks to the project.
personally, i think the ML sounds good with 1 exception. if you listen to anything with heavy bass the free air sub in back simply cannot handle the high excursion needed to play that type of music.
but if you listen to ACTUAL music like rock and roll or country it sounds fantastic! in fact so good that to me and despite having the ability and experience not to mention the access to the equipment for less than your local shop pays for it. mine is staying stock.
don't get me wrong i like hip hop also but i think a lot of people listen to it because they want their friends to think they are cool. I'm 44 now and also a drummer so i appreciate all kinds of music.
i listen to country at the office (don't want to offend my clients) usually r&b in the cars and on long trips pretty much everything from rock, to jazz, to country, classic rock
usually volume setting lower than 50 works good on anything.
if you lived in colorado i would hook you up!
11-30-14, 09:35 AM
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Bass Mech, have you had any experience with those slim profile powered subs (the one's that will fit under the seat?) Do these provide any fill of bass (not boom boom stuff), just some fill in the lower regions.
11-30-14, 02:18 PM
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The front part of ML sounds adequate to me. The rear part however is just a big let down. I am not sure if it is the system doesn't play true 5.1 or what but it is too weak. Also base is not deep enough doesnt give you that premium systems do. The base sounds like a from cheap system. Too much mid i think and the rear part is totally absent from trebble. Not the loudness per se but the quality is not good.
11-30-14, 02:34 PM
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the easiest upgrade is to just get a small sub and amp.
disconnect the factory sub and use the signals from the factory amp to power a dedicated sub amp.
personally i wouldn't mess with a sealed box like most shops will install. most shops employ installers that lack the necessary skills to design and tune a properly built ported enclosure.
if done right in a ported application a single 8" would be plenty. it won't take up very much space at all in the trunk.
2nd option is to replace the factory amp. i would keep the factory speakers as they will take more wattage but the thing is the 875 watt system is not really 875 RMS watts it is probably closer to about 20 watts per channel.
you would be amazed at the additional volume you would get from a simple 35 watt per channel aftermarket amp.
i think JL makes a nice 6 channel small profile amp that would to the trick.
it should have enough power to run everything including the sub.
also you don't need any dynamat! whenever a shop starts recommending that i would run! this is a classic sign of a shop that likes to charge way too much money for things that just make them profit.
I've been installing for 25 years, 10 as a professional and the rest as a hobbyist
if i were doing the system for myself i would start with option A that would cost me all of about 100 for the sub and since i still have connections to buy from distributers i can get the amp at cost about 400 bucks.
i know a shop will want at least 2x that money to do the install.
if i went with option B i would additionally add the alpine digital signal processor or the Audison Bit one and 8 channel amp.
this way i could also tweak the time alignment which would help a lot. but that will add another 700 bucks to the project.
personally, i think the ML sounds good with 1 exception. if you listen to anything with heavy bass the free air sub in back simply cannot handle the high excursion needed to play that type of music.
but if you listen to ACTUAL music like rock and roll or country it sounds fantastic! in fact so good that to me and despite having the ability and experience not to mention the access to the equipment for less than your local shop pays for it. mine is staying stock.
don't get me wrong i like hip hop also but i think a lot of people listen to it because they want their friends to think they are cool. I'm 44 now and also a drummer so i appreciate all kinds of music.
i listen to country at the office (don't want to offend my clients) usually r&b in the cars and on long trips pretty much everything from rock, to jazz, to country, classic rock
usually volume setting lower than 50 works good on anything.
if you lived in colorado i would hook you up!
disconnect the factory sub and use the signals from the factory amp to power a dedicated sub amp.
personally i wouldn't mess with a sealed box like most shops will install. most shops employ installers that lack the necessary skills to design and tune a properly built ported enclosure.
if done right in a ported application a single 8" would be plenty. it won't take up very much space at all in the trunk.
2nd option is to replace the factory amp. i would keep the factory speakers as they will take more wattage but the thing is the 875 watt system is not really 875 RMS watts it is probably closer to about 20 watts per channel.
you would be amazed at the additional volume you would get from a simple 35 watt per channel aftermarket amp.
i think JL makes a nice 6 channel small profile amp that would to the trick.
it should have enough power to run everything including the sub.
also you don't need any dynamat! whenever a shop starts recommending that i would run! this is a classic sign of a shop that likes to charge way too much money for things that just make them profit.
I've been installing for 25 years, 10 as a professional and the rest as a hobbyist
if i were doing the system for myself i would start with option A that would cost me all of about 100 for the sub and since i still have connections to buy from distributers i can get the amp at cost about 400 bucks.
i know a shop will want at least 2x that money to do the install.
if i went with option B i would additionally add the alpine digital signal processor or the Audison Bit one and 8 channel amp.
this way i could also tweak the time alignment which would help a lot. but that will add another 700 bucks to the project.
personally, i think the ML sounds good with 1 exception. if you listen to anything with heavy bass the free air sub in back simply cannot handle the high excursion needed to play that type of music.
but if you listen to ACTUAL music like rock and roll or country it sounds fantastic! in fact so good that to me and despite having the ability and experience not to mention the access to the equipment for less than your local shop pays for it. mine is staying stock.
don't get me wrong i like hip hop also but i think a lot of people listen to it because they want their friends to think they are cool. I'm 44 now and also a drummer so i appreciate all kinds of music.
i listen to country at the office (don't want to offend my clients) usually r&b in the cars and on long trips pretty much everything from rock, to jazz, to country, classic rock
usually volume setting lower than 50 works good on anything.
if you lived in colorado i would hook you up!
I don't have unlimited budget to upgrade the system. I want something economical but effective. Something tells me (my gut feeling and you seem to agree with that) that ML hardware is not unleashed to its fullest potential. And I really don't want to get rid of ML's amp. I saw the ML's amp and it really looks so good and so refined and expensive. I am pretty sure it costs a lot. Perhaps adding one high quality amp (letting ML amp to stay) and replacing an ML sub with a decent aftermarket sub will do the trick? Also I want the rear speakers to sound the same as the front ones. How that can be accomplished?
I would be glad to drive to Colorado but it is a bit far
Last edited by salvadorik; 11-30-14 at 02:39 PM.
12-01-14, 06:47 AM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
the other problem with this design is that in a car sound waves travel and bounce off the interior.
if you add a sub to the front part of the car your going to end up with cancellation. this means some of the bass frequencies will cancel each other out since the arrival time of each is different since they are vastly different distance from the driver seat.
I've been thinking about building a Lexus IS specific sub system and if i had enough interest here that i could make it worth my time i would.
since i have the same car i can use mine to build a box from that fits perfectly in the trunk.
the problem is i don't know if any of you would be willing to pay what i need to make it worth while.
i could also get a deal on some small amplifiers to power it with and include everything you need to DIY
i have access to the subwoofers, amps, wire kits all at wholesale.
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12-01-14, 06:55 AM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
The front part of ML sounds adequate to me. The rear part however is just a big let down. I am not sure if it is the system doesn't play true 5.1 or what but it is too weak. Also base is not deep enough doesnt give you that premium systems do. The base sounds like a from cheap system. Too much mid i think and the rear part is totally absent from trebble. Not the loudness per se but the quality is not good.
what the IS has is a simulated surround or dolby pro logic. it is nothing more than a time delay based on the sound from 2 channels.
if you want true 5.1 visit your acura dealer and listen to the ELS you'll never get the 2 confused ever again! lol
the problem with 5.1 is that you have to have a prerecorded 5.1 source and in this day and age thats a 5.1 dvd audio disc so unless you have a dvd audio player or can watch a dvd movie in 5.1 your never going to achieve that.
however as i mentioned earlier if i were to do a system in my car i would buy a 5.1 processor. this would allow you to install a dvd player and connect it via optical toss link. the same way you do on a home audio system with the fiber optical cable. then you would have true 5.1 but unless your a true audio nut its not likely you would use it much.
12-01-14, 06:59 AM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
Thank you for your very informative response. For me ML honestly does not do the trick. B&O was the system that I really really enjoyed. As stated above I like ML sound generated in the front half of the interior. The rear half is simply falls short. The rear sounds cheap whatever music you let it play (classic, pop, rock hip hop, you name it). Also the sub is not good enough.
I don't have unlimited budget to upgrade the system. I want something economical but effective. Something tells me (my gut feeling and you seem to agree with that) that ML hardware is not unleashed to its fullest potential. And I really don't want to get rid of ML's amp. I saw the ML's amp and it really looks so good and so refined and expensive. I am pretty sure it costs a lot. Perhaps adding one high quality amp (letting ML amp to stay) and replacing an ML sub with a decent aftermarket sub will do the trick? Also I want the rear speakers to sound the same as the front ones. How that can be accomplished?
I would be glad to drive to Colorado but it is a bit far
I don't have unlimited budget to upgrade the system. I want something economical but effective. Something tells me (my gut feeling and you seem to agree with that) that ML hardware is not unleashed to its fullest potential. And I really don't want to get rid of ML's amp. I saw the ML's amp and it really looks so good and so refined and expensive. I am pretty sure it costs a lot. Perhaps adding one high quality amp (letting ML amp to stay) and replacing an ML sub with a decent aftermarket sub will do the trick? Also I want the rear speakers to sound the same as the front ones. How that can be accomplished?
I would be glad to drive to Colorado but it is a bit far
i already addressed the replacing of the factory sub on another thread. thats a very bad idea. find that post and read about it there.
12-01-14, 11:05 AM
#10
I've been thinking about building a Lexus IS specific sub system and if i had enough interest here that i could make it worth my time i would.
since i have the same car i can use mine to build a box from that fits perfectly in the trunk.
the problem is i don't know if any of you would be willing to pay what i need to make it worth while.
i could also get a deal on some small amplifiers to power it with and include everything you need to DIY
i have access to the subwoofers, amps, wire kits all at wholesale.
since i have the same car i can use mine to build a box from that fits perfectly in the trunk.
the problem is i don't know if any of you would be willing to pay what i need to make it worth while.
i could also get a deal on some small amplifiers to power it with and include everything you need to DIY
i have access to the subwoofers, amps, wire kits all at wholesale.
I'm curious on that plan. Not sure how much it'll be, but if that specific build will work well with the system as a whole, that'll be much better than just sticking a random subwoofer in the trunk, since you mentioned that it's not good to replace the factory sub with something else....
12-01-14, 11:47 AM
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Stereo Upgrade
I just bought 2 Alpine pdx-m6 amps, 1 Alpine pdx-f6 amp, the alpine pxa-h800 and control. from reading posts I think i'm going to have to take trunk output speaker wires, input them into my pxa-h800, then output to amps, then reconnect to cut factory speaker wires. i'm going to take out factory sub and run 1542 15" alpine from the two m6 amps.
anyone see any problems with that?
later i'm going to swap out factory speaks with focal utopia... but $$ so waiting
anyone see any problems with that?
later i'm going to swap out factory speaks with focal utopia... but $$ so waiting
12-01-14, 01:14 PM
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it's not 5.1 you only get 5.1 from a DVD or digital source that has 5.1 channels.
what the IS has is a simulated surround or dolby pro logic. it is nothing more than a time delay based on the sound from 2 channels.
if you want true 5.1 visit your acura dealer and listen to the ELS you'll never get the 2 confused ever again! lol
the problem with 5.1 is that you have to have a prerecorded 5.1 source and in this day and age thats a 5.1 dvd audio disc so unless you have a dvd audio player or can watch a dvd movie in 5.1 your never going to achieve that.
however as i mentioned earlier if i were to do a system in my car i would buy a 5.1 processor. this would allow you to install a dvd player and connect it via optical toss link. the same way you do on a home audio system with the fiber optical cable. then you would have true 5.1 but unless your a true audio nut its not likely you would use it much.
what the IS has is a simulated surround or dolby pro logic. it is nothing more than a time delay based on the sound from 2 channels.
if you want true 5.1 visit your acura dealer and listen to the ELS you'll never get the 2 confused ever again! lol
the problem with 5.1 is that you have to have a prerecorded 5.1 source and in this day and age thats a 5.1 dvd audio disc so unless you have a dvd audio player or can watch a dvd movie in 5.1 your never going to achieve that.
however as i mentioned earlier if i were to do a system in my car i would buy a 5.1 processor. this would allow you to install a dvd player and connect it via optical toss link. the same way you do on a home audio system with the fiber optical cable. then you would have true 5.1 but unless your a true audio nut its not likely you would use it much.
http://www.marklevinson.com/lexus-is.html
If what you say is true then Lexus and ML misrepresent their product and this is a big deal - I can sue them for that.
12-01-14, 01:51 PM
#13
Driver School Candidate
I picked up my is350 fsport with ML audio yesterday. I guess it was my fault I didn't spend enough time while listening to it before the purchase but....I think my old 2012 accord sounded a lot better than the ML.
12-01-14, 02:37 PM
#14
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yes as a matter of fact i played with one just yesterday. we hooked it up temporarily in my friends 2014 4 runner. does it make bass? yes but nothing to get excited over. it vibrated the seat bottom but the factory system had better bass.
the other problem with this design is that in a car sound waves travel and bounce off the interior.
if you add a sub to the front part of the car your going to end up with cancellation. this means some of the bass frequencies will cancel each other out since the arrival time of each is different since they are vastly different distance from the driver seat.
I've been thinking about building a Lexus IS specific sub system and if i had enough interest here that i could make it worth my time i would.
since i have the same car i can use mine to build a box from that fits perfectly in the trunk.
the problem is i don't know if any of you would be willing to pay what i need to make it worth while.
i could also get a deal on some small amplifiers to power it with and include everything you need to DIY
i have access to the subwoofers, amps, wire kits all at wholesale.
the other problem with this design is that in a car sound waves travel and bounce off the interior.
if you add a sub to the front part of the car your going to end up with cancellation. this means some of the bass frequencies will cancel each other out since the arrival time of each is different since they are vastly different distance from the driver seat.
I've been thinking about building a Lexus IS specific sub system and if i had enough interest here that i could make it worth my time i would.
since i have the same car i can use mine to build a box from that fits perfectly in the trunk.
the problem is i don't know if any of you would be willing to pay what i need to make it worth while.
i could also get a deal on some small amplifiers to power it with and include everything you need to DIY
i have access to the subwoofers, amps, wire kits all at wholesale.
12-01-14, 04:12 PM
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me too, a plug-n-play solution would be even better.
Salvadorik, can you confirm whether or not the ML system has "port-holes" (not really ports, more like slits) directly underneath the subwoofer on the trunk trim?
I did something tonight that improved bass response (not a night/day difference, but there is a difference) from my standard sub with items I had in my garage, and I wanted to confirm if the ML system has a similar trunk trim underneath the subwoofer.
Salvadorik, can you confirm whether or not the ML system has "port-holes" (not really ports, more like slits) directly underneath the subwoofer on the trunk trim?
I did something tonight that improved bass response (not a night/day difference, but there is a difference) from my standard sub with items I had in my garage, and I wanted to confirm if the ML system has a similar trunk trim underneath the subwoofer.
