Lexus vs. Audi: My Story
11-14-14, 08:50 AM
#16
Bentley and Rolls? Yes, maybe. Audi, BMW and Benz? No. I put these cars in pretty much the same class as Lexus and you don't have to be crazy rich to drive one.
11-14-14, 11:26 AM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
Audi, BMW, Benz are those brand deserve for rich people like Paris Hilton who doesn't mind spending $13K just for a little dog. However, we are a working middle class people who work so hard every day to have 2 meal a day. Every penny is a kilo of gold to us. So spending money to maintain a car is a big decision to consider buying a car. Reliability is our top priority on a long run. Lexus is all the way.
Have you been drinking since this morning?
You can get a A4 or A5 for what you got your Lexus, or cheaper depending on the trim chosen. I really think you need to take a look at www.audiusa.com, www.bmwusa.com, and really understand the pricing structure of these cars. I think you are giving far too much credit to those owners. These are the same people that get embarressed in what they own and strip the numbers off the back so you don't know how old it is...
I think you are valuing people like Paris Hilton far too much, especially if you think she needs a ton of money to afford a car. Her LFA perhaps (which she still pays monthly on...), pretty much every other car she owns, can be bought by the typical person who saves long enough.
Perhaps you should take a trip to your local Cars n Coffee groups and see what "poor middle class" people can afford.
11-14-14, 02:29 PM
#19
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[QUOTE="Swacer;8788099"] Audi/BMW/Benz are for rich people? Have you been drinking since this morning? You can get a A4 or A5 for what you got your Lexus, or cheaper depending on the trim chosen. I really think you need to take a look at www.audiusa.com, www.bmwusa.com, and really understand the pricing structure of these cars.]
^^^
So true. I see a lot of new 3series out there withOUT a navigation system
^^^
So true. I see a lot of new 3series out there withOUT a navigation system
11-14-14, 02:31 PM
#20
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I think damtachoa meant that high cost of maintaining, because of poor reliability of three German luxury brands, is excessively high that only rich people can afford to keep these vehicles. Logically what he said does make sense. What I don't agree, however, with damtachoa is the notion that cost of ownership of German brands are higher than that of Lexus. The key here is to the draw the line the cost of maintaining the car before warranty expires and after expiration. Within 4Year or 50K miles the cheapest lease including the cost of maintenance during the lease time comes from BMW. BMW has very low lease rates plus BMW covers all needed maintenance (including brakes). Also Audi sells their Audi care maintenance package for only $800 that covers all the way up 50K miles. Lexus on the other hand charges arms and legs for maintaining the car (I got a quote of $260 for a simple inspection done at 15K). Now after 50K miles owning Germans cars become excessively expensive while Lexus generally gets a lot cheaper to own.
Most people who buy brand new luxury cars change the cars every 3-4 years so the concern of after warranty cost of ownership becomes a bit irrelevant (other than Lexus' slight advantage in higher trade in value).
My opinion is if someone wants to lease German cars would give the highest satisfaction for about the same money. If on the other hand someone wants to buy and keep the vehicle for a while (7-10 years), Lexus is obviously the best option here.
Most people who buy brand new luxury cars change the cars every 3-4 years so the concern of after warranty cost of ownership becomes a bit irrelevant (other than Lexus' slight advantage in higher trade in value).
My opinion is if someone wants to lease German cars would give the highest satisfaction for about the same money. If on the other hand someone wants to buy and keep the vehicle for a while (7-10 years), Lexus is obviously the best option here.
Last edited by salvadorik; 11-14-14 at 02:36 PM.
11-16-14, 07:00 PM
#22
I have been back and forth as well and its always been Audi and Lexus, did have an evo x in there, but I too am going from my IS250 awd f sport to an Audi s3, my Audi comes in on Dec 01 till then I have my lexus which I still love but something about Audi,s keeps making me going back, hopfully I,ll stick with the s3 for time to come
11-16-14, 07:58 PM
#23
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I have been back and forth as well and its always been Audi and Lexus, did have an evo x in there, but I too am going from my IS250 awd f sport to an Audi s3, my Audi comes in on Dec 01 till then I have my lexus which I still love but something about Audi,s keeps making me going back, hopfully I,ll stick with the s3 for time to come
11-19-14, 06:30 PM
#24
Did you test drive S3? If you did, you probably noticed that there is a tremendous difference between your IS250 and S3. Dynamically you are gonna have a major upgrade. Unbelievably fast for a such small engine and you cannot even say that there is a hint for turbo lag, instantaneous throttle response. I hope you ordered with Audi's magnetic ride cause that makes huge difference.
The IS350 is a fine car with plenty of power for any reasonable street situation. For "sporty" driving, sport mode is available. The 8-speed tranny with manual mode is fun, too. I have no need of nav or leather or powered steering column or sliding speedometer, so was able to keep the price around $40k, not much more than an "ordinary" car.
IMO, in its price range, the IS350, as a "driver's car", is only surpassed by the S3.
11-19-14, 06:37 PM
#25
I did drive it, I went shopping with my wife and she was taking long so saw an audi dealer and went there, and they had an s3 for test drive, After the drive I bought one, had to be factory ordered, it arrives 1st week of December, already got kw coils and 19 inch wheels, going to buy euro codes for the front lights hate the amber, did not get the mag ride as I knew I was going to lower it on coils, but got all the other options
11-21-14, 09:23 AM
#26
I have driven my friend's 3.0 Supercharged A5 Coupe and my 2015 IS350 F-sport back to back. In a drag race both the cars go side by side. Here's some of the things I've noticed.
Audi :
MMI's graphics are better.
Better fuel economy.
Never runs out of grip. Quattro!
Service intervals are every 15k kms.
Bigger rims (19-inch) and has 255's all around.
Lexus:
Has a better reverse camera.
Interior has a tighter feel. As well as the steering wheel and the pedals.
The seats are much better.
Handles better on curvy roads. (if not faster)
Much more driver oriented (seating position, steering feel etc)
Imo, Lexus set the bar high with this car. It has a proper sports car feel to it. Audi feels softer.
Love my IS
Audi :
MMI's graphics are better.
Better fuel economy.
Never runs out of grip. Quattro!
Service intervals are every 15k kms.
Bigger rims (19-inch) and has 255's all around.
Lexus:
Has a better reverse camera.
Interior has a tighter feel. As well as the steering wheel and the pedals.
The seats are much better.
Handles better on curvy roads. (if not faster)
Much more driver oriented (seating position, steering feel etc)
Imo, Lexus set the bar high with this car. It has a proper sports car feel to it. Audi feels softer.
Love my IS
11-21-14, 02:20 PM
#28
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I have driven my friend's 3.0 Supercharged A5 Coupe and my 2015 IS350 F-sport back to back. In a drag race both the cars go side by side. Here's some of the things I've noticed.
Audi :
MMI's graphics are better.
Better fuel economy.
Never runs out of grip. Quattro!
Service intervals are every 15k kms.
Bigger rims (19-inch) and has 255's all around.
Lexus:
Has a better reverse camera.
Interior has a tighter feel. As well as the steering wheel and the pedals.
The seats are much better.
Handles better on curvy roads. (if not faster)
Much more driver oriented (seating position, steering feel etc)
Imo, Lexus set the bar high with this car. It has a proper sports car feel to it. Audi feels softer.
Love my IS
Audi :
MMI's graphics are better.
Better fuel economy.
Never runs out of grip. Quattro!
Service intervals are every 15k kms.
Bigger rims (19-inch) and has 255's all around.
Lexus:
Has a better reverse camera.
Interior has a tighter feel. As well as the steering wheel and the pedals.
The seats are much better.
Handles better on curvy roads. (if not faster)
Much more driver oriented (seating position, steering feel etc)
Imo, Lexus set the bar high with this car. It has a proper sports car feel to it. Audi feels softer.
Love my IS
11-23-14, 07:51 PM
#29
Lexus Champion
Disclaimer! I'm not pretending to be an automotive journalist: I’m just an average 33yo guy with a passion for nice cars, and have owned several models from both brands and would like to share my thoughts on owning these cars, and why I've switched back and forth. Perhaps if you’re on the fence between the two brands, my post will help you decide. I’m posting in the 3IS thread because my story really tells how I led up to buying my 3IS, and why I eventually sold it.
My first Lexus was a 1993 SC300 coupe handed down to me from my Mom. It will always be my favorite Lexus, and was the car that really got me excited about the brand (long before Lexus tried to appeal to a younger demographic). IMO, the coupe had a timeless style, technology way ahead of its time, and a silky smooth straight-6 that was a blast to drive. It lacked the power and fuel-efficiency of modern motors, but everything was so well-built, and rock-solid: I felt that car could probably run forever, and I feel the SC300/400 was the one of best cars built by Lexus – ever.
I ended up finally selling my SC and traded in on 2010 IS250 AWD. The coupe was getting impractical at nearly 20 years old, and I needed something with better fuel efficiency and AWD for my long (100 mile round-trip) commutes in New England winters. I bought it pre-owned with 30k miles, and was the first luxury car I bought for myself. I really loved it. I thought the cabin was very classy and very refined. The fit and finish on all the materials seemed really top-notch. And similar to the SC, I felt the 2nd IS generation had a timeless, classic style that was almost universally appealing. My only lament was the car wasn’t nearly as sporty as the SC. The 2.5L V6 – while smooth and fuel-efficient – didn’t excite me to drive. It was simply a car that was a great place to be in for long commutes, and I knew would be reliable; but those are the reasons I bought it and it certainly delivered on its promise.
After moving to California, I ended up trading my 2IS in on a new 2013 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro. I had put a lot of miles commuting in New England on my IS, and I still had a lot of payments left on it. I felt I would better off paying for a new car under warranty. The Audi brand has always excited me since I was a teenager. And while much more aggressive and sexy than the 2IS, the A4 exterior styling still had a classic, appealing look. This was the first brand new car I ever bought for myself, and I loved it at first. I found the MMI system to be incredibly easy to use, and a great design. Like my 2IS, the A4 was loaded with all kinds of tech features that made it an enjoyable place to spend my time. One of my favorite features was the Bang and Olufsen sound system upgrade, and it was unbeatable. Also like the 2IS, the fit and finish on all the cabin materials was really top-notch. It felt like it was a well-made luxury car. Ultimately, where the A4 fell short (severely short!) was the powertrain. I was initially drawn to the low-end torque of the turbocharged 4, as well as the really great fuel economy. But the more I drove it, the more disappointed I felt. The turbo lag was significant, and the 8-speed tiptronic felt clunky. For an expensive luxury car, the 4-cylinder engine seemed too loud and unrefined. The transmission never seemed to be in the right gear, and shifts were often harsh and distracting. I enjoyed being in the car but not so much driving it.
The turning point came when Lexus announced their 2014 IS. One look (and test drive) at the dealership, and I was immediately sold on an IS 350 F-Sport RWD! Like I said in the beginning, I’ve always had a passion/enthusiasm for the Lexus brand, and I was so excited they came out with such a great-looking car. I felt no other brand – Audi, BMW, Benz, etc., - had anything like it. I took delivery on the first day they were released. Unlike my previous cars, the 3IS had a very sexy, but very polarizing style. It’s a love or hate it situation – and I loved it. The car really stood out, and I loved the attention I got while driving it, especially when it was new and most people hadn’t seen one before. I had an obsidian on rioja red combo that looked stunning. The cockpit felt like it was made for the driver – a really special place to be. Everything felt very ergonomic, expect for the odd placement of the cup holders. And, because I had chosen the 350 – I finally had the power that I felt lacking in my 2IS and A4.
Unfortunately, the longer I owned it, the novelty of some of the things I really enjoyed at first began to wear off. The Mark Levinson sound system – while very nice, was definitely not as good as the B&O in my Audi. The lack of memory seats was a ridiculous oversight by Lexus: I would get so frustrated if someone else drove my car, and then I had to spend time trying to reset all my seat and mirror positions to exactly the way I wanted. The F-Sport gauges – while very cool – seemed more for show, than practicality. I didn’t really like driving with the tachometer off-center, and I missed having a central information screen that was always visible. Sport+ was a feature that really brought the car to life, but it seemed to burn through way too much fuel to be practical for every-day use. Speaking of which, the fuel economy in general was disappointing. It did get a little better after putting 8000 miles or so, but below par for a modern car.
Additionally, the materials in the car weren’t as nice as my previous cars: lots of plastic, including cheap plastic in some places, and vinyl seats. I actually have mixed feelings on the Nuluxe seats: I really liked the durability and ease-of-care, but while they looked and felt like real leather, I missed the luxury aspect of actually having real leather, and the nice smell you get when entering a $50,000 luxury car. I wish leather seats were at least an option for the F-Sport. And finally the NAV system: the remote-touch was a nice interface, but not as useful or friendly as Audi’s MMI. The most frustrating part of the NAV system was the slow and somewhat gimmicky interface that often didn’t work correctly or would freeze: I know many 3IS owners shared this problem. None of these things really bothered me at first, but once the excitement of owning Lexus’ newest, most exciting model wore off – these things became more noticeable and disappointing.
When Lexus announced the RC, I was enthralled by the incredibly sexy styling. I’ve always wanted a coupe again, and since I have another vehicle (Range Rover) that I use for weekend trips, Costco runs, etc., the loss of cargo and passenger space is a non-issue. Ultimately, I really would love to make the jump to the RC-F: It seems like an amazing car, but at $75,000+ the way I would want it configured, it’s out of my budget for now. As a potential compromise, the RC350 F-Sport has 99% of the same exterior styling as the RC-F that I love so much; but the inside to me is exactly the same as what I’m used to. It feels looks and feels like an IS, and drives like an IS thanks to the exact same powertrain. And since a person spends most of their time in the car driving it, rather than looking at it – the RC350 F Sport just didn’t seem worth the upgrade. Largely, it would feel like the same car that has become somewhat disappointing. Not to mention, Lexus wanted a small fortune on a lease rate: I realize they’re brand new and not giving any discounts (even to loyal, repeat customers) but IMO, it just wasn’t worth it.
So, my saga ended this week when I visited my local Audi dealership and traded my IS350 in on a new, 2014 Audi S5 Cabriolet. It has everything that I liked about my A4, but with a powertrain that is second-to-none in its class. The supercharged V6 is silky-smooth, incredibly responsive and provides amazing power. The dual-clutch S-Tronic transmission shifts lightning-fast, and paired with the supercharged motor – makes for an amazing combo. Everything in the car feels rock-solid and very premium in quality. It is fully loaded and makes no compromise between sport and luxury. Thanks in part to the torque-vectoring differential and Quattro, it handles the curvy roads better than my IS350. It’s a blast to drive and a truly luxurious cabin to be in. The best part is I was able to get a 2014 model at almost $12,000 off MSRP.
Make no mistake: I had a lot of fun owning my Lexus IS350. I’ve also really enjoyed being part of this forum, mostly by reading other people’s posts and sharing their enthusiasm for their cars, but also adding a few thoughts of my own here and there. I might be back one day – especially if Lexus reintroduces the SC-line based on the LF-LC concept. But for now, I’m back with Audi, I feel confident in my choice, and I couldn’t be happier.
My first Lexus was a 1993 SC300 coupe handed down to me from my Mom. It will always be my favorite Lexus, and was the car that really got me excited about the brand (long before Lexus tried to appeal to a younger demographic). IMO, the coupe had a timeless style, technology way ahead of its time, and a silky smooth straight-6 that was a blast to drive. It lacked the power and fuel-efficiency of modern motors, but everything was so well-built, and rock-solid: I felt that car could probably run forever, and I feel the SC300/400 was the one of best cars built by Lexus – ever.
I ended up finally selling my SC and traded in on 2010 IS250 AWD. The coupe was getting impractical at nearly 20 years old, and I needed something with better fuel efficiency and AWD for my long (100 mile round-trip) commutes in New England winters. I bought it pre-owned with 30k miles, and was the first luxury car I bought for myself. I really loved it. I thought the cabin was very classy and very refined. The fit and finish on all the materials seemed really top-notch. And similar to the SC, I felt the 2nd IS generation had a timeless, classic style that was almost universally appealing. My only lament was the car wasn’t nearly as sporty as the SC. The 2.5L V6 – while smooth and fuel-efficient – didn’t excite me to drive. It was simply a car that was a great place to be in for long commutes, and I knew would be reliable; but those are the reasons I bought it and it certainly delivered on its promise.
After moving to California, I ended up trading my 2IS in on a new 2013 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro. I had put a lot of miles commuting in New England on my IS, and I still had a lot of payments left on it. I felt I would better off paying for a new car under warranty. The Audi brand has always excited me since I was a teenager. And while much more aggressive and sexy than the 2IS, the A4 exterior styling still had a classic, appealing look. This was the first brand new car I ever bought for myself, and I loved it at first. I found the MMI system to be incredibly easy to use, and a great design. Like my 2IS, the A4 was loaded with all kinds of tech features that made it an enjoyable place to spend my time. One of my favorite features was the Bang and Olufsen sound system upgrade, and it was unbeatable. Also like the 2IS, the fit and finish on all the cabin materials was really top-notch. It felt like it was a well-made luxury car. Ultimately, where the A4 fell short (severely short!) was the powertrain. I was initially drawn to the low-end torque of the turbocharged 4, as well as the really great fuel economy. But the more I drove it, the more disappointed I felt. The turbo lag was significant, and the 8-speed tiptronic felt clunky. For an expensive luxury car, the 4-cylinder engine seemed too loud and unrefined. The transmission never seemed to be in the right gear, and shifts were often harsh and distracting. I enjoyed being in the car but not so much driving it.
The turning point came when Lexus announced their 2014 IS. One look (and test drive) at the dealership, and I was immediately sold on an IS 350 F-Sport RWD! Like I said in the beginning, I’ve always had a passion/enthusiasm for the Lexus brand, and I was so excited they came out with such a great-looking car. I felt no other brand – Audi, BMW, Benz, etc., - had anything like it. I took delivery on the first day they were released. Unlike my previous cars, the 3IS had a very sexy, but very polarizing style. It’s a love or hate it situation – and I loved it. The car really stood out, and I loved the attention I got while driving it, especially when it was new and most people hadn’t seen one before. I had an obsidian on rioja red combo that looked stunning. The cockpit felt like it was made for the driver – a really special place to be. Everything felt very ergonomic, expect for the odd placement of the cup holders. And, because I had chosen the 350 – I finally had the power that I felt lacking in my 2IS and A4.
Unfortunately, the longer I owned it, the novelty of some of the things I really enjoyed at first began to wear off. The Mark Levinson sound system – while very nice, was definitely not as good as the B&O in my Audi. The lack of memory seats was a ridiculous oversight by Lexus: I would get so frustrated if someone else drove my car, and then I had to spend time trying to reset all my seat and mirror positions to exactly the way I wanted. The F-Sport gauges – while very cool – seemed more for show, than practicality. I didn’t really like driving with the tachometer off-center, and I missed having a central information screen that was always visible. Sport+ was a feature that really brought the car to life, but it seemed to burn through way too much fuel to be practical for every-day use. Speaking of which, the fuel economy in general was disappointing. It did get a little better after putting 8000 miles or so, but below par for a modern car.
Additionally, the materials in the car weren’t as nice as my previous cars: lots of plastic, including cheap plastic in some places, and vinyl seats. I actually have mixed feelings on the Nuluxe seats: I really liked the durability and ease-of-care, but while they looked and felt like real leather, I missed the luxury aspect of actually having real leather, and the nice smell you get when entering a $50,000 luxury car. I wish leather seats were at least an option for the F-Sport. And finally the NAV system: the remote-touch was a nice interface, but not as useful or friendly as Audi’s MMI. The most frustrating part of the NAV system was the slow and somewhat gimmicky interface that often didn’t work correctly or would freeze: I know many 3IS owners shared this problem. None of these things really bothered me at first, but once the excitement of owning Lexus’ newest, most exciting model wore off – these things became more noticeable and disappointing.
When Lexus announced the RC, I was enthralled by the incredibly sexy styling. I’ve always wanted a coupe again, and since I have another vehicle (Range Rover) that I use for weekend trips, Costco runs, etc., the loss of cargo and passenger space is a non-issue. Ultimately, I really would love to make the jump to the RC-F: It seems like an amazing car, but at $75,000+ the way I would want it configured, it’s out of my budget for now. As a potential compromise, the RC350 F-Sport has 99% of the same exterior styling as the RC-F that I love so much; but the inside to me is exactly the same as what I’m used to. It feels looks and feels like an IS, and drives like an IS thanks to the exact same powertrain. And since a person spends most of their time in the car driving it, rather than looking at it – the RC350 F Sport just didn’t seem worth the upgrade. Largely, it would feel like the same car that has become somewhat disappointing. Not to mention, Lexus wanted a small fortune on a lease rate: I realize they’re brand new and not giving any discounts (even to loyal, repeat customers) but IMO, it just wasn’t worth it.
So, my saga ended this week when I visited my local Audi dealership and traded my IS350 in on a new, 2014 Audi S5 Cabriolet. It has everything that I liked about my A4, but with a powertrain that is second-to-none in its class. The supercharged V6 is silky-smooth, incredibly responsive and provides amazing power. The dual-clutch S-Tronic transmission shifts lightning-fast, and paired with the supercharged motor – makes for an amazing combo. Everything in the car feels rock-solid and very premium in quality. It is fully loaded and makes no compromise between sport and luxury. Thanks in part to the torque-vectoring differential and Quattro, it handles the curvy roads better than my IS350. It’s a blast to drive and a truly luxurious cabin to be in. The best part is I was able to get a 2014 model at almost $12,000 off MSRP.
Make no mistake: I had a lot of fun owning my Lexus IS350. I’ve also really enjoyed being part of this forum, mostly by reading other people’s posts and sharing their enthusiasm for their cars, but also adding a few thoughts of my own here and there. I might be back one day – especially if Lexus reintroduces the SC-line based on the LF-LC concept. But for now, I’m back with Audi, I feel confident in my choice, and I couldn’t be happier.
11-24-14, 03:09 PM
#30
Not sure about A5 with 3.0T supercharged engine but S5s do have this engine. I agree about the reverse camera though. I still don't get it. All Audis have this sucky low resolution reverse camera. Even A8 gets the camera than is substantially worse than that in 3IS. Kinda shame on Audi - clearly it is a very cheap item but makes huge difference. And yes 3IS 350 F Sport handles better than A5 and yes it is more driver oriented. That said, however, S models are entirely in a different league. There is absolutely no comparison to 3IS 350s unless you compare the true "F's (RCF and ISF for instance). Audi S models are just better almost in every single thing. Reliability and affordability however can be disputed.