SW17LS

But I can make that comparison with the other Lexus hybrids I've driven, including the GS450H which is a superior vehicle. Theres no reason to believe that if I don't like the CVT feel in the CT, ES, RX or GS hybrids I would for some reason like it in the IS.

Well you never hear the gearbox. What you hear is the engine sound. The engine sound is simply modulated by the gearbox. I absolutely would compare the drivetrain feel to the ESh and the GSh to the Prius.

I've never heard the CVT whine in any Prius I've ever driven. What I do hear is engine drone from RPM being held at the same output while the car is accelerating. I hear that in all vehicles with a CVT I've driven, Prius, ESh, GSh, RXh, CTh, Camry Hybrid, Nissan and Infiniti CVTs, Chrysler CVTs, so on and so forth. I dont like it.

magne

Then I misunderstood you a bit, as I thought it was the CVT whine that bugged you, not the sound of the engine.
But I still think there is a big difference between the small hybrids and the larger ones from toyota\lexus. As i previously stated this is becuase the small ones have the small engine and the revs goes all the the way up when accelerating lightly, making the car feel more intense, where the large ones has a strong enough engine to barely up the revs a cuople of thousand rpm's, making it almost not hearable that the revs stay constant when accelerating normally.
But since you've driven several versions of the hybrids, you have the foundation for your opinion. I can understand that you do not like the way the CVT box makes the engine and car feel, as this is a bit strange compared to conventional gearboxes.
I just can't understand the part about the prius feeling the same as a Gs450h when it comes to engine noice.

FinaLpeace

I totally agree that the IS250 is not up to the game like I stated on my previous respond to your post. It wasn't sarcastic lol. Many people in this forum still consider it a sports car even though I told them it's too slow.

I do own an 2014 IS350 F Sport and it's a sporty car, but I honestly think it lacks the term luxurious in it's interior design. The center console has a huge black piece of plastic material along with the extremely cheap pieces of silver trim that can scratch easily if your girlfriend has long finger nails. Also seats are nuluxe with no leather option in F sport models. Almost no technology is within the car such as the absence of heads up display which both luxury and f sport package dont offer, memory seats which f sport package doesn't offer, and just a lot more. Unfortunately the new IS doesn't offer both sportiness and luxurious in the US since we cannot opt for both packages into the car for a fully loaded IS. The IS wins the sports car category, but not luxury. It has a lot more to catch up to do compare to the new Mercedes C class.

I'm going to mention again that you should take a look at the 2015 Mercedes C class which competes with the new IS rather than comparing it to the old C class. The new C class based price jump up to 40k in the US with the C400 at 48k based price. Totally the best luxurious car in this class and segment compared to it's competitors. The new term for the new C class is "mini S class".

I don't know how well the Prius does in your place, but the Prius plug-in in the US runs 95 mph in city driving. How well does the IS300h runs? Even the cheapest Prius-C runs 53 mph in city. I honestly don't even need to look at the numbers of the IS300h and knows that the Prius is way ahead in terms of fuel efficiency.

Well lets summarized the major points here since things are getting into confusion. The IS you mention is not a sports car and it's rather more luxurious unless it's the IS350? I agree except it's not luxurious enough because after seeing the new 2015 Mercedes C class, I think the IS have a lot of catching up to do.

At the end I would just love to say majority of buyers out there considering a Lexus is because it's the most reliable luxurious auto brand out there at the moment. I would still consider the IS as more of a sports car rather than luxury no matter how weak the engine is because it looks too aggressive without elegance.

SW17LS

Its just a characteristic of a vehicle with a CVT. Every car I've ever driven with a CVT is the same way.

Im2bz2p345

Not take away from the "CVT" discussion, but I'm curious to know if you guys could directly compare the 4th generation (2013+) GS450h and the 3rd generation (2014+) IS350 F Sport in bit more detail.

Does the GS450h feel a lot bigger when driven? How about when corning at a higher speed - does it so it like the IS? Can it hold it's own in terms of performance?

Obviously the GS450h is the more "luxurious" of the two, but is it enough of a difference that you would give us the IS for the GS450h (if you had a choice & they were both similarly priced)?

Would appreciate any input. Maybe I should be asking this question in the GS - 4th Generation forum (https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...eneration-237/), but since it was mentioned here both some folks, I wanted to get some feedback.

Thank you all in advance,

~ Im2bz2p345

SW17LS

The first thing to understand is the difference between a GS350 and an IS350. The GS is also a very sharp handling car, but it feels bigger, feels more mature (which is a positive or negative depending on your goals). The IS is nimbler, lighter, feels quicker.

The GS450h is considerably heavier than the GS350 (about 400 lbs). The 450h feels heavier too in the corners, its not as dynamic handling a car as the GS350. So certainly it would be less so than the IS350.

Making a "if they were similarly priced" comparison doesn't make much sense because the 450h is $15-20,000 more than a loaded IS350 F Sport. A better comparison would be to a GS350 F Sport if you want to preserve as much of the IS road feel in a bigger car.

rayaans

Merc C Class costs a lot more though. It pushes over £40k over here getting a C250 CDI Amg line. An IS250 F Sport in comparison costs £33k and an IS300h F Sport £36k. The C250 is so expensive, its nearly competing with the GS450h base model. And no, the interior will NOT justify a £4k increase in price over the competition. Fair enough if you get a poverty pack vehicle though

magne

I understand some of your arguments, but before I tell more about why I have the opinions I have, remember that I live in Europe, and that we get the FULLY loaded IS, not the stripped US version.
So we can get every equipment avalible in the f-sport and the luxury version of the IS.
The C-class does not have a lot more equipment here in europe, than the IS has.
In europe we only have the IS250 and the IS300h. Not the 350. This is because of emisson regualtions.
I do own a 2014 IS300h, with almost all options. (lacking memory seats and rear+cross traffic alert), but do have PCS, radar guided cruise, ML system, heated steering wheel and all options that US cars does not get. So I feel this is quite a luxurios car. We have the fully loaded version with leather seats with cooling and heating+ all the things i did not order on my car.
Mine also has the adjustable suspension, so the ride car be both quite soft and a bit firmer in sport+ mode.

I can see your point about the black and silver plastic trim, but the trim is no better in an audi a4 or bmw 3 series. The c-class uses more wood, so it looks a bit better. But I still feel that the trim looks a lot more expensive than most sportcars. But yes the interior has a sporty design, even if I still consider it a luxury car. But the caddilacs are supposed to be a luxury brand? The interior in a caddilac does not look any more luxurious than in the lexus IS. And the other panels in the luxury version of the new IS are avalible in wood selections.

Where I live, they tax cars according to emmisons, size, power and price.
The Lexus IS300h is about 20000$ cheaper than the c-class with equal HP. (180hp ish diesel)
The cheapest stripped base version of the IS300h starts at about 68000$ while the c-class with the same hp starts at about 85000$. Ad all equipment to the IS 300h f-sport and the price is about 90000$. Ad all this eqipment to the c-class and the price is about 150000$.
I can see why you don't consider the IS to be a luxury car in the US when you have no avalible eqiupment for it.

I've driven a lot of prius.
The plug in can be driven very cheap, and is really not a match because you can run it forever on electrisity if you live close to work. So that car really does not compare.
In europe we have two other prius models. The normal one, and the prius+, a seven seater people carier.
The normal one uses about 4,9 liters per 100km in average. This equal to 48mpg in US numbers.
The IS300h F-sport uses about 5,5 liters per 100km in avarge, this equals to 42mpg in US figures. However the f-sport has wide rear wheels, and the base version uses about 47mpg with stock narrow wheels. (i've tried narrow wheels on my winter wheels, and the consumtion drops to about the same as a prius)
This is beacuse you can drive the IS300h all electric up to 70km\h or about 45mph.
The prius has the petrol engine kicking in over 50km\h or 30 mph.
Also the battery pack in the Is300h can make the car run all electric for about 3km.
My lowest consumtion was made on a 40km trip, about 27 miles long. Mostly country roads, with 45mph speed limit.
Consumtion was on the whole trip 4,0 liters per 100km, translates into 58,8 mpg.
So no, the prius is not way ahead in fuel consumtion.
It does a bit etter, becuase it is a smaller car. But the IS300h is not very far behind. Base version figures for IS300h in Europe states a consumtion of 4,2 liters per 100km, about 56mpg in euro emisson test.
The prius does 3,9 liters per 100km in same test, about 60mpg. Not a huge difference.

I understand you argument about looks making the IS a sportscar.
But I have to disagree with you.
A ladyboy is still a man, even if he looks like a woman.
The layout of the IS is still a 4 door sedan, even if it looks aggresive enough to match the looks of many sportcars.
Most sportcars are made for preformance, and nothing else. That usually, but not always, excludes 4 doors, 5 fully functional seats, and a roomy trunk.
With that said, I do not consider a c-class AMG a sportcar either, it is just a souped up luxury sedan. So is the Bmw M5 and Audi RS6.
Sportscar class for me is at least a coupe. The mazda mx5 and toyota mr2 are examples of sportscars without sportscar preformance from the engine.
The Porsche panamera is not a sportscar either, becuase of its four doors. But that's where the cathegory grand tourer comes in.
Aggresive looks alone does not make the IS a sportscar, because you make any car look aggresive with styling.
If the new IS had the engine and suspension of the old IS-F I would probably not dissagree with the term completly, but would still consider it a saloon myself. Mostly because of four doors and heavy weight.

But I think we can all agree that Lexus is the most reliable luxury brand there is. (and we don't have acura or infinity in europe)

webra

I own a IS300h. I have also driven Prius's, through we don't have the seven seater version here, and I am very familiar with both the third and fourth gen GS450h. I love driving, my other car is a two door German and quite sporty, and I also do road trips around the world, the last one took me around Mount Fuji when we had the use of a fleet of Toyota 86's. Along with the Nissan GTR, those two are my current benchmarks for best handling cars, and Lexus is the benchmark for lowest long term ownership costs past Warrantee period.

Recently at Mercedes world, Brooklands, UK, I had a good look at the new C class. It's very high in perceived quality and the design is striking, very attractive but still maintains classical lines. We will see how it drives, but the Europeans are running tight on time before diesels meet tougher particate limits.

These seems to be many misconceptions about the IS hybrid. But it is true that in fuel consumption terms, it's really not that far away from a Prius hybrid in normal daily use. Mine gives a range of around 1000kms ber tank, normally after a refill of about 58 litres, of normal fuel, as high octane is not needed.

Performance wise, it is speed limited to 200km/h, but it gets there surprisingly with much less effort than my previous IS250. In normal mode, the pulling power away from standstill is fine, and more responsive that the IS250. In sports mode it's a lot quicker off the line. Lexus hybrids, from my experience with both this car and the GS450h, accelerate quicker in the higher speed ranges than what their 0-60/100 timings would suggest. The 450h, for instance, in my hands, hit 230km/h from a flying start on the second straight of the Sepang F1 track, before braking for the lefthander. The ISF manages to reach 240km/h, also in my hands.

My IS300h is equipped with paddle shifters. At over 50kmh, in sports mode, the shifters regulate the motor in a similar way to an automatic gearbox. The shifts are quite distinct, and the revs rise with the speed, and drop with an up shift. In normal driving, the shifts mimick steps alike an autobox, when you ease back on the gas panel when it up shifts, though it slurs it enough so that there is non existent shift shock.

Is there much left of the rubberband effect? Yes, I would say, when at town speeds where the computer adjusts for maximum efficiency, except you don't notice much as it's not really audible. There is a kick down part at the end of the pedal travel, and that will give full voltage and IC power for maximum pull. When near maximum speed, the revs hit redline first a short while before the car reaches maximum speed.

For those who have not driven the IS300h I hope this gives some idea of how it works, and in the countries where this car is sold, perhaps why it's developing a loyal following rather nicely.

SW17LS

I've driven several hybrid and non hybrid vehicles with CVTs that have paddle shifters and have "pretend shift points" like the IS300h, including the GS450h. Still not my thing.

I'm not trying to denigrate the IS300h or diminish your enjoyment of it. My wife for instance loved her Prius and loves CVTs...but you guys need to stop trying to show us that we somehow just don't understand or don't have any experience with the car. We understand, we just don't like CVTs.

tea

because he takes every chance he can get to bash on the is250 even though it is not even relevant in this thread

webra

Sure. Not a problem. My car shares a garage with my sporty autobox German car. Unless I am going flat out, that's not my kind of gearbox either, far too jerky compared to the cvt, though smoother than a dual clutch. Anyhow it has been rumoured that they are now developing alternative hybrid drivetrains...twin clutch with a torque converter. (Mercedes B class had a cvt with a torque converter some while back).

FinaLpeace

You have some huge issues with the IS250. People would probably ignore this response/post from you and I could have easily just ignore you as well.

We're having a great discussion here about the cars we like and you're here trying to start trouble. I wasn't bashing the IS250 in my respond, I was agreeing with magne that he stated the IS250 is not a considerably sports car.

As you can see our group conversation (excluding you) ended peacefully and thoughtfully at the end.

From your comment, it seems better to say you're looking for every chance to troll.

Would you mister tea love to add to our conversation with more useful thoughts rather than stir up trouble all the time?

tea

Just responding to the other member about why your posts are so patronizing and condescending. Thank you for another patronizing and condescending post

FinaLpeace

You're an unsuccessful troll