Staggered VS Square Wheel Setups
01-07-14, 03:15 PM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Staggered VS Square Wheel Setups
Hello,
For all you pros out there, yeah, you know who you are.
Thought it'd be a good idea to reveal some information for all the newcomers to know about wheel setups especially when going with an aftermarket shock/spring, coilover, or air suspension setup.
A little FYI, staggered is having an unbalanced front vs rear wheel setup(Mainly for appearance, more aggressive, more understeer).
While square wheel setups are even/balanced on all 4 corners(4x4, better handling especially if your car will ever see track time, but as always, won't look as nice and aggressive as staggered setups).
For those who already done this:
Who's staggered, and who's on a square wheel setup?
Post pics, and list your wheel setups!(Tire, rim size and offsets)
For all you pros out there, yeah, you know who you are.
Thought it'd be a good idea to reveal some information for all the newcomers to know about wheel setups especially when going with an aftermarket shock/spring, coilover, or air suspension setup.
A little FYI, staggered is having an unbalanced front vs rear wheel setup(Mainly for appearance, more aggressive, more understeer).
While square wheel setups are even/balanced on all 4 corners(4x4, better handling especially if your car will ever see track time, but as always, won't look as nice and aggressive as staggered setups).
For those who already done this:
Who's staggered, and who's on a square wheel setup?
Post pics, and list your wheel setups!(Tire, rim size and offsets)
01-07-14, 03:22 PM
#2
Well, I had an 07 IS250 AWD and kept it square for 2 reasons:
1) AWD gets damaged if the rolling diameter isn't the same front and rear within a few percent.
2) I actually take my car to places like Tail of the Dragon and prefect the balanced setup of a square setup with rear sway bar. Made it more neutral.
My current car is keeping the same square setup because of the same 2nd reason. I don't need anymore understeer since it's wrong wheel drive =(
1) AWD gets damaged if the rolling diameter isn't the same front and rear within a few percent.
2) I actually take my car to places like Tail of the Dragon and prefect the balanced setup of a square setup with rear sway bar. Made it more neutral.
My current car is keeping the same square setup because of the same 2nd reason. I don't need anymore understeer since it's wrong wheel drive =(
01-07-14, 09:53 PM
#4
Pole Position
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: NV
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello,
For all you pros out there, yeah, you know who you are.
Thought it'd be a good idea to reveal some information for all the newcomers to know about wheel setups especially when going with an aftermarket shock/spring, coilover, or air suspension setup.
A little FYI, staggered is having an unbalanced front vs rear wheel setup(Mainly for appearance, more aggressive, more understeer).
While square wheel setups are even/balanced on all 4 corners(4x4, better handling especially if your car will ever see track time, but as always, won't look as nice and aggressive as staggered setups).
For those who already done this:
Who's staggered, and who's on a square wheel setup?
Post pics, and list your wheel setups!(Tire, rim size and offsets)
For all you pros out there, yeah, you know who you are.
Thought it'd be a good idea to reveal some information for all the newcomers to know about wheel setups especially when going with an aftermarket shock/spring, coilover, or air suspension setup.
A little FYI, staggered is having an unbalanced front vs rear wheel setup(Mainly for appearance, more aggressive, more understeer).
While square wheel setups are even/balanced on all 4 corners(4x4, better handling especially if your car will ever see track time, but as always, won't look as nice and aggressive as staggered setups).
For those who already done this:
Who's staggered, and who's on a square wheel setup?
Post pics, and list your wheel setups!(Tire, rim size and offsets)
Again, I'm not an automotive pro, so If my assumptions are wrong, I'd invite anyone to correct me. I suspect the car makers would rather sell you a car that understeers at the limit since you can recover from a car that plows more easily than one that serves up snap throttle oversteer.
01-29-14, 08:14 PM
#7
To OP, I'm not sure that's completely correct when you say that staggered setups induce understeer. All car drivetrain applications (fwd, rwd, awd) can have varying levels of understeer, but fwd cars will more typically have understeer issues. Even if you square fwd and awd cars, they are more notorious for understeer than rwd drivetrains. This comes with the fact that the front tires are rotating for movement, acceleration if you will, and this combine that with the other role of the fronts doing the turn-ins, there is a lot of work on the front tires therefore it will give out quicker and understeer. Staggered setups with medium (IS350) to high hp cars will always more than likely induce oversteer. Yes the rears have more traction and with a good amount of acceleration during turn it, it's likely you'll spin the car around rather than understeering into the corner. It really depends in your application, what you plan on using the car for (dd, track, autox) and when you got that figured out, then you can start playing with your wheel/tire setups. One last thing to mention is most ppl over focus on stag vs non-stag setups, and a lot fail to consider the weight distribution (balance of the car), toe, and camber setups when these things really have a profound effect on the car.
Trending Topics
01-30-14, 04:17 PM
#9
To OP, I'm not sure that's completely correct when you say that staggered setups induce understeer. All car drivetrain applications (fwd, rwd, awd) can have varying levels of understeer, but fwd cars will more typically have understeer issues. Even if you square fwd and awd cars, they are more notorious for understeer than rwd drivetrains. This comes with the fact that the front tires are rotating for movement, acceleration if you will, and this combine that with the other role of the fronts doing the turn-ins, there is a lot of work on the front tires therefore it will give out quicker and understeer. Staggered setups with medium (IS350) to high hp cars will always more than likely induce oversteer. Yes the rears have more traction and with a good amount of acceleration during turn it, it's likely you'll spin the car around rather than understeering into the corner. It really depends in your application, what you plan on using the car for (dd, track, autox) and when you got that figured out, then you can start playing with your wheel/tire setups. One last thing to mention is most ppl over focus on stag vs non-stag setups, and a lot fail to consider the weight distribution (balance of the car), toe, and camber setups when these things really have a profound effect on the car.
Applications - daily, track, drifting (just three to generalize
Daily - staggered or square you wont notice much of a difference, unless you "track" on the street. lol.
Track - you want the fastest lap time right? then you want more rubber than not. Square would be the ideal setup. A lot of the S2000 peeps use square setups on the tracks but I'll get into weight distribution in a bit.
Drifting - you don't want the fronts to grab the road as much as the rears so staggered is ideal in this case.
Weight Distribution - to keep it simple just think of it this way...wherever there is more weight that is where you want more rubber. that's basic. that's why you see porsches with ridiculous width in the back vs the front because they (carreras) normally have a 34/66 weight distribution...ridiculous! that's why they are so over steer happy and much harder to drive. they wont tell you this but the cayman can out perform the carreras handling anyday cause its much closer to 50/50. The 3rd gen IS is about 54/46 so a square setup is absolutely acceptable. These days staggered is done more so for the appearance of the vehicle vs the performance. Plus there are some added benefits for your daily such as rotation capabilities and additional grip when needed on the road.
something to consider about weight as well is well......weight. lol. Consider the overall weight and surface area when "upgrading" your shoes. Bigger might, and more often than not, will not be better. wider tires just means more rubber for the engine to turn. heavier rims means more weight for the engine to turn. Adding more rubber is probably inevitable but consider the overall weight. The rims make look pretty but you are actually degrading and not upgrading.
I'm going with volks TE37s. light, strong, and not to mention...beautiful. and im going with a square setup. #becausetrackcar
good luck.
01-30-14, 05:02 PM
#11
Pole Position
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: NV
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You nailed right on the head dude. If you consider the weight distribution and the application of driving you'll be doing then you can make the right decisions.
Applications - daily, track, drifting (just three to generalize
Daily - staggered or square you wont notice much of a difference, unless you "track" on the street. lol.
Track - you want the fastest lap time right? then you want more rubber than not. Square would be the ideal setup. A lot of the S2000 peeps use square setups on the tracks but I'll get into weight distribution in a bit.
Drifting - you don't want the fronts to grab the road as much as the rears so staggered is ideal in this case.
Weight Distribution - to keep it simple just think of it this way...wherever there is more weight that is where you want more rubber. that's basic. that's why you see porsches with ridiculous width in the back vs the front because they (carreras) normally have a 34/66 weight distribution...ridiculous! that's why they are so over steer happy and much harder to drive. they wont tell you this but the cayman can out perform the carreras handling anyday cause its much closer to 50/50. The 3rd gen IS is about 54/46 so a square setup is absolutely acceptable. These days staggered is done more so for the appearance of the vehicle vs the performance. Plus there are some added benefits for your daily such as rotation capabilities and additional grip when needed on the road.
something to consider about weight as well is well......weight. lol. Consider the overall weight and surface area when "upgrading" your shoes. Bigger might, and more often than not, will not be better. wider tires just means more rubber for the engine to turn. heavier rims means more weight for the engine to turn. Adding more rubber is probably inevitable but consider the overall weight. The rims make look pretty but you are actually degrading and not upgrading.
I'm going with volks TE37s. light, strong, and not to mention...beautiful. and im going with a square setup. #becausetrackcar
good luck.
Applications - daily, track, drifting (just three to generalize
Daily - staggered or square you wont notice much of a difference, unless you "track" on the street. lol.
Track - you want the fastest lap time right? then you want more rubber than not. Square would be the ideal setup. A lot of the S2000 peeps use square setups on the tracks but I'll get into weight distribution in a bit.
Drifting - you don't want the fronts to grab the road as much as the rears so staggered is ideal in this case.
Weight Distribution - to keep it simple just think of it this way...wherever there is more weight that is where you want more rubber. that's basic. that's why you see porsches with ridiculous width in the back vs the front because they (carreras) normally have a 34/66 weight distribution...ridiculous! that's why they are so over steer happy and much harder to drive. they wont tell you this but the cayman can out perform the carreras handling anyday cause its much closer to 50/50. The 3rd gen IS is about 54/46 so a square setup is absolutely acceptable. These days staggered is done more so for the appearance of the vehicle vs the performance. Plus there are some added benefits for your daily such as rotation capabilities and additional grip when needed on the road.
something to consider about weight as well is well......weight. lol. Consider the overall weight and surface area when "upgrading" your shoes. Bigger might, and more often than not, will not be better. wider tires just means more rubber for the engine to turn. heavier rims means more weight for the engine to turn. Adding more rubber is probably inevitable but consider the overall weight. The rims make look pretty but you are actually degrading and not upgrading.
I'm going with volks TE37s. light, strong, and not to mention...beautiful. and im going with a square setup. #becausetrackcar
good luck.
01-30-14, 10:21 PM
#12
Not sure that I agree with your assertion that you might not feel the difference b/t staggered and square for daily driving. I don't track my car, and I'm constantly aware of the limitations of the mediocre Bridgestone rubber and the skinny tires up front. For a car with sporting pretensions the 3IS rolls into the corners and understeers at unacceptable levels. It's hard to imagine that a square set up wouldn't be an immediately noticeable improvement over OEM for spirited street driving.
and i suggest your track it at least once. You'll never know the limitations of the vehicle until you push it. and you can't push it comfortably on the streets.
btw...do you take off all the nannies (pedal dance) and stick in sport+? cause this IS gets pretty tail happy. =)
02-04-14, 02:17 PM
#13
18x10 +39 all around
I think you misread it. I said you won't feel a difference IF you don't track it on the street. you will absolutely feel a difference with more rubber. But if you drive normally then no...you won't feel too much of a difference. It'll all be in your head.
and i suggest your track it at least once. You'll never know the limitations of the vehicle until you push it. and you can't push it comfortably on the streets.
btw...do you take off all the nannies (pedal dance) and stick in sport+? cause this IS gets pretty tail happy. =)
I think you misread it. I said you won't feel a difference IF you don't track it on the street. you will absolutely feel a difference with more rubber. But if you drive normally then no...you won't feel too much of a difference. It'll all be in your head.
and i suggest your track it at least once. You'll never know the limitations of the vehicle until you push it. and you can't push it comfortably on the streets.
btw...do you take off all the nannies (pedal dance) and stick in sport+? cause this IS gets pretty tail happy. =)
I tried a 9.5" wheel at 40 and that barely fit in there! Decided to go with a 9" wheel instead!
Let me see your setup when you get them in!
02-04-14, 02:23 PM
#14
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
18x10 +39 all around
I think you misread it. I said you won't feel a difference IF you don't track it on the street. you will absolutely feel a difference with more rubber. But if you drive normally then no...you won't feel too much of a difference. It'll all be in your head.
and i suggest your track it at least once. You'll never know the limitations of the vehicle until you push it. and you can't push it comfortably on the streets.
btw...do you take off all the nannies (pedal dance) and stick in sport+? cause this IS gets pretty tail happy. =)
I think you misread it. I said you won't feel a difference IF you don't track it on the street. you will absolutely feel a difference with more rubber. But if you drive normally then no...you won't feel too much of a difference. It'll all be in your head.
and i suggest your track it at least once. You'll never know the limitations of the vehicle until you push it. and you can't push it comfortably on the streets.
btw...do you take off all the nannies (pedal dance) and stick in sport+? cause this IS gets pretty tail happy. =)
02-05-14, 08:31 AM
#15
Yes. From my experience the button is 75% disengaged and the pedal dance is 100% disengaged. I don't do it that often because It would wear out the rear tires tread in no time.
Last edited by BOBFSPORT; 02-05-14 at 10:43 AM.