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Old 12-20-13, 06:18 AM   #1
chris6878
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Default 2014 is 250 non ml speaker spec info?

Anyone know where to find the spec sheet for the 250 non ml system. I want to replace most of the door speakers and i need to know the size of each. Thanks for any help.
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Old 12-20-13, 06:54 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by chris6878 View Post
Anyone know where to find the spec sheet for the 250 non ml system. I want to replace most of the door speakers and i need to know the size of each. Thanks for any help.
take it from someone who has been installing car audio since 1989 i know a lot of people think factory speakers suck. but the fact is the factory speakers in the lexus like most factory speakers in recent years are quite good.

you see most are made with a light weight cones which are more efficient than poly cones used in 90% of aftermarket speakers.
also the factory amplifier uses internal crossovers to match the capability of each of the speakers.

unless you plan to swap out the amplifier and all the speakers i wouldn't waste your money. for far too long in the 12 volt industry people continue to buy into the marketing hype. too many car audio salesmen have become so successful convincing people the factory stuff is garbage so they can push the aftermarket to make a buck.

too many people buy car audio gear with their eyes and not with their ears. I've done RTA's in several cars and found that excluding subwoofers you actually get more volume and better bass response with the factory speakers than with most aftermarket speakers.
those that performed better were minimal at best and not worth the amount of money for the small gains.
you would be far better off doing like several here have done to just add an amp and subwoofer to the system. leave the rest of it alone.

in most cars its not the speakers, it's the lack of power because most manufacturers use an amplifier that does not have a switching power supply in it. therefore the entire output stage has only 12 volts (14.4 with engine running) to work with. you can only get about 40 watts per channel under these conditions.
some manufacturers like Bose will use lower impedance speakers like 2 ohms getting nearly 80 watts from the same amplifier.
therefore if you replaced a speaker like that you would get half the power because all aftermarket speakers are 4 ohms.

i know what your thinking, but if your ear is good enough to detect a well engineered stereo, you'll notice that the non ML system with the surround actually has some great staging, it doesn't have a lot of power but the only thing thats going to help you there is replace the amplifier. the speakers they used and the crossover points they picked were designed to compliment both the interior placement and the amplifier used.

the major reason the industry has brainwashed so many into aftermarket speakers is because it is not very easy to listen to 2 identical cars side by side, 1 with factory and 1 with aftermarket and on the same songs. combine that with the fact a lot of people wouldn't know a good sounding audio system even if it fell out of the sky and landed on there face and started to wiggle!

case in point, last summer i took my corvette Z06 to a local car audio shop after replacing the factory head unit only, still using factory speakers and factory amps. (thousands of people have complained for years about the crappy bose systems in corvettes)
all i did was add a subwoofer and amplifier for the sub to the system.
i had the manager of the shop listen to the car and he was blown away with the staging and overall sound quality. then he asked what i was running and he refused to believe the speakers were stock. 3 other techs listened to it and refused to believe my claim.
why would i lie?

replace them if you want. but i guarantee you it will do more harm than good and the only thing you will have done is spent a lot of money you didn't need to spend.
spend your money on the item in the car thats lacking, thats the subwoofer. it is very difficult if not impossible to get a free air or infinite baffle subwoofer design to reproduce accurate bass using the trunk of the car as the enclosure.
the best way to get that kind of output is with a ported enclosure tuned for that vehicle with an amp,
once you get that done, you can simply turn down the bass control at the head unit with will virtually eliminate any distortion even at high volume for the other speakers in the car, while the sub takes care of the low end response.

you heard it here from the Bass Mechanic!
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Old 12-20-13, 07:52 AM   #3
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Reading this felt like reading a wikipedia page! Great stuff.
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Old 12-20-13, 05:55 PM   #4
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I've read your responses on similar threads and always enjoy them. I also have a non-ML 250 and I have to admit, the stock speakers don't sound bad, but after listening to driving a 350 with ML, there is definitely a difference.

Bass - do you have a particular preference on amps and subs that you would recommend? I'm a complete novice to this, so any info/suggestions would be helpful. Also, how much would replacing the stock speakers with something like Polk Speakers cost + adding in the amp and a sub?
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Old 12-20-13, 06:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass Mech View Post
take it from someone who has been installing car audio since 1989...
Great post
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Old 12-20-13, 09:23 PM   #6
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Wow Bass your response should be posted in the frequently asked questions thread!
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Old 12-21-13, 08:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar24 View Post
I've read your responses on similar threads and always enjoy them. I also have a non-ML 250 and I have to admit, the stock speakers don't sound bad, but after listening to driving a 350 with ML, there is definitely a difference.

Bass - do you have a particular preference on amps and subs that you would recommend? I'm a complete novice to this, so any info/suggestions would be helpful. Also, how much would replacing the stock speakers with something like Polk Speakers cost + adding in the amp and a sub?
you know thats a good question, I've been out of the car audio scene as a professional installer for so long now i am not as familiar with every brand out there but i think the question your asking me is what would "I" do if it were my car and my system.

"IF" i were to replace everything i would start off with the Alpine PXA-H800 digital signal processing unit and the RUX-C800 controller. this little gem will accurately sample and time align every speaker location in the car to any one of 3 preset locations.
if you didn't know what time alignment does, realize that sound travels at about 400 mph and has a lag although small between speakers because in a car they are at different distances from your ears.
this unit can with the included microphone sample each speaker and set not only the appropriate time delay for the speakers nearest to you so that the sound from all arrives at the exact same time, it also has a 31 band EQ for each of 8 channels to compensate for poor acoustics to make each speaker location sound as close to a flat response as it can be made to sound.
then you can adjust the EQ further to set it to your liking.

then i would probably go with JL audio XD amps rather than alpine. the reason is because i am all about small efficient and clean installs that give me the best bang for the buck. the problem with alpine is they don't make anything bigger than a 4 channel amplifier. so if your trying to run 8 channels you'll need 3 of them!
a 4 channel for the front mid and highs
a 2 channel for the rears
a mono amp for the subs

with the JL you can buy the 6 channel amp to cover the front mid and high, rear high
and a 3 channel amp to cover the rear mid and a sub.
their amps are super small, very efficient (generate almost no heat) and easy to hide or find places to install.
i would probably use all the factory speakers and set my own crossover points using the PDX because it actually does a sample test signal to each speaker to determine what it's capabilities are and will set a crossover point for that speaker.

then i would remove the factory sub and build a 10" ported box tuned to about 39 Hz with a TC sounds Epic 10" subwoofer (found at parts-express.com) because Thilo Stompler used to build my subwoofers and nobody makes better subs with less distortion than TC sounds period!
Thilo holds the world record for the longest throw subwoofer in the world and had a lot of patented technologies build into their subs that NO company has ever matched. Thilo used to make subs that had a 4.5" peak to peak cone excursion! and a patented voice coil that virtually eliminates distortion.

i would remove the factory sub and build a 4th order bandpass enclosure (sealed on 1 side of the speaker and ported on the other) and run the port up through the opening and sealing it to the rear package tray so all the sound comes through the same place the factory sub was mounted.

i would probably hit it with about 300-400 watts and call it a day.

so the amplifiers would simply be XD 600/6 and XD 500/3

i would only replace the speakers that might not be able to handle the power, if i smoke one replace it with a same size aftermarket speaker with a higher wattage capability, but i think if you tune everything correctly and use the power responsibility you'll likely never have to replace anything.

that's how i would roll!

if money was no object i would probably go all out and buy everything audison they have some amazingly awesome technology and componentry that would knock tour socks off.
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2014 Lexus IS 350 F sport RWD Obsidian Rojia
2013 Lexus GS 350 F sport AWD Obsidian Cabernet
2014 GMC Sierra 6.2l All-Terrian Black SUPERCHARGED 624 hp
previous cars last 5 years
2009 Toyota Tacoma TRD 4x4 off road Supercharged Black Sand
2012 Corvette Z06 Centennial edition 1 of 194 made
2008 Corvette Z06 Black on Black
2008 Lexus GS 350 AWD and 2007 Lexus IS 350 RWD

Last edited by Bass Mech; 12-21-13 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 02-06-14, 03:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass Mech View Post
take it from someone who has been installing car audio since 1989 i know a lot of people think factory speakers suck. but the fact is the factory speakers in the lexus like most factory speakers in recent years are quite good.

you see most are made with a light weight cones which are more efficient than poly cones used in 90% of aftermarket speakers.
also the factory amplifier uses internal crossovers to match the capability of each of the speakers.

unless you plan to swap out the amplifier and all the speakers i wouldn't waste your money. for far too long in the 12 volt industry people continue to buy into the marketing hype. too many car audio salesmen have become so successful convincing people the factory stuff is garbage so they can push the aftermarket to make a buck.

too many people buy car audio gear with their eyes and not with their ears. I've done RTA's in several cars and found that excluding subwoofers you actually get more volume and better bass response with the factory speakers than with most aftermarket speakers.
those that performed better were minimal at best and not worth the amount of money for the small gains.
you would be far better off doing like several here have done to just add an amp and subwoofer to the system. leave the rest of it alone.

in most cars its not the speakers, it's the lack of power because most manufacturers use an amplifier that does not have a switching power supply in it. therefore the entire output stage has only 12 volts (14.4 with engine running) to work with. you can only get about 40 watts per channel under these conditions.
some manufacturers like Bose will use lower impedance speakers like 2 ohms getting nearly 80 watts from the same amplifier.
therefore if you replaced a speaker like that you would get half the power because all aftermarket speakers are 4 ohms.

i know what your thinking, but if your ear is good enough to detect a well engineered stereo, you'll notice that the non ML system with the surround actually has some great staging, it doesn't have a lot of power but the only thing thats going to help you there is replace the amplifier. the speakers they used and the crossover points they picked were designed to compliment both the interior placement and the amplifier used.

the major reason the industry has brainwashed so many into aftermarket speakers is because it is not very easy to listen to 2 identical cars side by side, 1 with factory and 1 with aftermarket and on the same songs. combine that with the fact a lot of people wouldn't know a good sounding audio system even if it fell out of the sky and landed on there face and started to wiggle!

case in point, last summer i took my corvette Z06 to a local car audio shop after replacing the factory head unit only, still using factory speakers and factory amps. (thousands of people have complained for years about the crappy bose systems in corvettes)
all i did was add a subwoofer and amplifier for the sub to the system.
i had the manager of the shop listen to the car and he was blown away with the staging and overall sound quality. then he asked what i was running and he refused to believe the speakers were stock. 3 other techs listened to it and refused to believe my claim.
why would i lie?

replace them if you want. but i guarantee you it will do more harm than good and the only thing you will have done is spent a lot of money you didn't need to spend.
spend your money on the item in the car thats lacking, thats the subwoofer. it is very difficult if not impossible to get a free air or infinite baffle subwoofer design to reproduce accurate bass using the trunk of the car as the enclosure.
the best way to get that kind of output is with a ported enclosure tuned for that vehicle with an amp,
once you get that done, you can simply turn down the bass control at the head unit with will virtually eliminate any distortion even at high volume for the other speakers in the car, while the sub takes care of the low end response.

you heard it here from the Bass Mechanic!
Nice information Bass Mechanic,


So you would add a ported sub and amp to the non-ML audio system and call it a day? Would there be a better location for the sub besides the trunk? I am terrified of rattle.

I previously drove an MR2 and did exactly this, had a small 8'' subwoofer behind passenger seat and turned bass down at headunit and let sub hit all my lows, and found it hard to find a similar sound. Will this get me what I'm looking for?
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Old 02-06-14, 05:45 PM   #9
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Smh, a sub to an already muddy non clear system, with an imaging from God knows where?
Sorry but better mids and highs would do justice imho. Nothing wrong with adding bass hence my name
Didn't know this thread was here, was just talking about it too.

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-t...ock-audio.html

Much respect
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Old 02-06-14, 07:00 PM   #10
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Bass Mech: Do you know if there's a way to adjust the output level of the subwoofer in the '14 IS system?

I've only had my 2014 a couple of days and my initial impression is that the stock system (non-NAV version) is very bass heavy. I have both the surround and DSP switched off, which is how I set my 2008 and 2011 IS systems. The 2008 and 2011 systems certainly weren't the greatest sounded systems out there, but at least they were relatively neutral and uncolored sounding.

The tone controls on the 2014 alone aren't sufficient to solve the issue. Bass set at -2 or -3 helps a bit, but -4 is too much.

I'm guessing that the system is completely software based, so I'm wondering if the firmware can be upgraded, modified, or hacked somehow? Any suggestions?
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Old 02-11-14, 06:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass Mech View Post
take it from someone who has been installing car audio since 1989 i know a lot of people think factory speakers suck. but the fact is the factory speakers in the lexus like most factory speakers in recent years are quite good.

you see most are made with a light weight cones which are more efficient than poly cones used in 90% of aftermarket speakers.
also the factory amplifier uses internal crossovers to match the capability of each of the speakers.

unless you plan to swap out the amplifier and all the speakers i wouldn't waste your money. for far too long in the 12 volt industry people continue to buy into the marketing hype. too many car audio salesmen have become so successful convincing people the factory stuff is garbage so they can push the aftermarket to make a buck.

too many people buy car audio gear with their eyes and not with their ears. I've done RTA's in several cars and found that excluding subwoofers you actually get more volume and better bass response with the factory speakers than with most aftermarket speakers.
those that performed better were minimal at best and not worth the amount of money for the small gains.
you would be far better off doing like several here have done to just add an amp and subwoofer to the system. leave the rest of it alone.

in most cars its not the speakers, it's the lack of power because most manufacturers use an amplifier that does not have a switching power supply in it. therefore the entire output stage has only 12 volts (14.4 with engine running) to work with. you can only get about 40 watts per channel under these conditions.
some manufacturers like Bose will use lower impedance speakers like 2 ohms getting nearly 80 watts from the same amplifier.
therefore if you replaced a speaker like that you would get half the power because all aftermarket speakers are 4 ohms.

i know what your thinking, but if your ear is good enough to detect a well engineered stereo, you'll notice that the non ML system with the surround actually has some great staging, it doesn't have a lot of power but the only thing thats going to help you there is replace the amplifier. the speakers they used and the crossover points they picked were designed to compliment both the interior placement and the amplifier used.

the major reason the industry has brainwashed so many into aftermarket speakers is because it is not very easy to listen to 2 identical cars side by side, 1 with factory and 1 with aftermarket and on the same songs. combine that with the fact a lot of people wouldn't know a good sounding audio system even if it fell out of the sky and landed on there face and started to wiggle!

case in point, last summer i took my corvette Z06 to a local car audio shop after replacing the factory head unit only, still using factory speakers and factory amps. (thousands of people have complained for years about the crappy bose systems in corvettes)
all i did was add a subwoofer and amplifier for the sub to the system.
i had the manager of the shop listen to the car and he was blown away with the staging and overall sound quality. then he asked what i was running and he refused to believe the speakers were stock. 3 other techs listened to it and refused to believe my claim.
why would i lie?

replace them if you want. but i guarantee you it will do more harm than good and the only thing you will have done is spent a lot of money you didn't need to spend.
spend your money on the item in the car thats lacking, thats the subwoofer. it is very difficult if not impossible to get a free air or infinite baffle subwoofer design to reproduce accurate bass using the trunk of the car as the enclosure.
the best way to get that kind of output is with a ported enclosure tuned for that vehicle with an amp,
once you get that done, you can simply turn down the bass control at the head unit with will virtually eliminate any distortion even at high volume for the other speakers in the car, while the sub takes care of the low end response.

you heard it here from the Bass Mechanic!
lol, i understand what your saying, but when I say replace the speakers, that means i will also add amps, wiring and and any other units needed for the sound. I dont just replace speakers, I replace it all. Ive also been doing this for a few years now.

My ISF system includes': morel fronts and rears, tru technology highs amp, genesis sub amp. morel sub, bit ten sound processor.

Im not just changing speakers and expecting them to work with a stock amp. Thats idiotic.

But with this being a new car, i havent seen anyone change out anything yet, so I dont want to be a guinea pig for a shop, so i may just add a sub like you said and a amp and see how it sounds. much easier and cheaper.

Last edited by chris6878; 02-11-14 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 08-25-14, 08:40 PM   #12
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noob here, additing a sub and turning the bass all the way down on the stock system, will be good?

I will get them sub right now!
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Old 12-01-14, 11:54 AM   #13
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sound sux in my opinion. want to upgrade. bought all alpine pdx-m6 (*2) + 1542 15", pdx-f6, pxa-h800 plus cux control. I hope the amp is in rear right trunk of car yes??? if so going to take output from factory amp to pxa-h800, then reconnect factory speakers (until I replace with focals) and add sub.

any problems with doing this???

what about the filtering and crossing from the factory? is there any?
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Old 12-01-14, 04:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djh0002002 View Post
sound sux in my opinion. want to upgrade. bought all alpine pdx-m6 (*2) + 1542 15", pdx-f6, pxa-h800 plus cux control. I hope the amp is in rear right trunk of car yes??? if so going to take output from factory amp to pxa-h800, then reconnect factory speakers (until I replace with focals) and add sub.

any problems with doing this???

what about the filtering and crossing from the factory? is there any?
what i would do is grab the front, rear signals from the HU, remove the amp t tap all the factory speaker wires so i could reinstall everything factory at a later time.
then just add a 8 channel amp and dedicated sub amp.
use the factory speaks.
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2013 Lexus GS 350 F sport AWD Obsidian Cabernet
2014 GMC Sierra 6.2l All-Terrian Black SUPERCHARGED 624 hp
previous cars last 5 years
2009 Toyota Tacoma TRD 4x4 off road Supercharged Black Sand
2012 Corvette Z06 Centennial edition 1 of 194 made
2008 Corvette Z06 Black on Black
2008 Lexus GS 350 AWD and 2007 Lexus IS 350 RWD
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Old 12-21-14, 05:35 AM   #15
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Bass Mech, I removed a front door panel this weekend to get an idea of how the door speaker is mounted. The front door speakers use the door panel as a "sealed" enclosure," which makes me think that a dedicated mid-bass or "low-pass" door speaker with a dedicated amp would improve bass response significantly, or even add a dedicated amplifier with the OEM speaker since the speaker appears to be high in quality. What are your thoughts? The standard sound system lacks in mid-bass IMHO. Other Lexus models (RX350 premium sound) uses the front door speakers for additional mid-bass response as well.
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