What's Wrong w/ This Car Wash Regimen?
10-09-13, 12:53 PM
#16
Lexus Test Driver
the soap will wash away the wax because it's soap, it has nothing to do with the dirt on the surface, imagine you poured alcohol on the dirty car, do you think that will eat the wax off? sure it will, will the dirt still be there? absolutely.
wax by nature especially a thin coat won't last with certain types of detergents. will car wash soap at the local car wash strip the wax? well without knowing what kind of soap it is all I can say is IT MIGHT!
but I KNOW the car wash soap I use is safe for washing cars because it's designed for that purpose. you have no idea if the car wash place uses dawn dish detergent or car wash soap. my guess is whatever is the least expensive. after all they are running a business, whatever makes that business more profitable or makes you stand there longer stuffing quarters in their slot is what they focus on. will it get your car clean? sure. and for 99% of the people use it have no idea or care why their paint looks dull.
the bottom line is THE BEST way to wash your car is at HOME in your driveway with a pressure washer and a bucket of suds. if you need a wash away from home I never wash a really dirty car in a public car wash. I am simply not set up to do a proper job in that environment without risk of removing the wax or not being able to get it clean enough to make it worthwhile. I carry a chamois in a container in the trunk to keep it moist in the back of my car, worst case I can get it pretty clean with a rinse and a dry.
if I had to drive in the rain and the car is filthy I do that at home. I have the tools there to get the wheels clean and do a more thorough job in that environment.
with that in mind and I don't know where you live but if you have a garage, get a pressure washer. I have a modified washer that I built that puts out 3500 PSI at 3 gallons per minute. it works better than any do it yourself car wash. I have quick disconnects on the hose and the washer so I can wheel it out, hook it up and be running in less than 2 minutes. my hose is in the garage ready to go and I installed a water faucet inside the garage, cut a hose just the right length with quick disconnects so I stretch the hose out to the front of the garage, hook it up, yank the starter cord and she fires right up (its a Honda 8hp engine)
with my setup I can make quick work of cleaning my 4 black cars.
just as a rule don't put anything on your waxed paint that might remove the wax, and 2 don't rub anything against the paint that may have particulate matter on it.
keep your mitts clean and don't cross contaminate mitts or water used for wheels and paint.
when you wipe with a mitt, you need very little pressure, just enough to wash away the dirt.
if you follow these guidelines you'll still get micro scratches but they are insignificant enough that a good coat of wax will hide 98% of them.
the only way to remove dirt sufficiently is with a wash mitt surface dust will blow off with water and you can dry after words.
the point is your trying to preserve the wax and the polished finish, so don't put any more effort into cleaning the car than is needed for the dirt your trying to remove.
the more aggressive you are each time you wash the more likely you are to remove wax and cause scratches or swirls.
treat your car the same way you would your woman's vagina! the nicer you are to it, the more it will reward you back! LMAO!
10-09-13, 01:39 PM
#17
A few more tips from my detailing experience.
Buy a bucket with a lid and a grit guard.
That way you can take your own hot water and soap when washing somewhere else than home, and the grit guard makes the dirt you wash of your car stay at the buttom of the bucket.
Use lots of water, the more the better. You can't use to much water when washing a car. (but you can use to much soap making the mixture to strong, this also can disolve the wax)
Try a degreaser named bilthamber surfex hd. It is very good to loose up dirt, but not bugs and asphalt stains. This is a water based degreaser than can be thined out using water. For instance you can have 20 parts water and 1 part degreaser to make it mild.
That way you'll want disolve the wax the to much when using the degreaser, but it will loosen up the dirt so much that most of it will wash of with a preassure washer.
The remaining dirt will have to be washed away with a mitten and lots of water with soap. (the more soap water, the better the mitten will glide so the dirt disolves better, and doesn't leave any swirls.)
Instead of a chamois, try a microfiber towel especially for drying cars. They are very gentle to the paint. Something like the "chemical guys miracle dryer" or similar.
And as Bass mech says. Get your own pressure washer. It is so much easier to clean at home,
A powerfull electrical one works just fine. Preferably some known brand. They are built to last.
I have one myself, but because of the climate there are 5 months wintertime of the year I can't use it, in the winter time I use the indoor washing facilitys of my gas station, bringing my own soapwater and bucket.
Buy a bucket with a lid and a grit guard.
That way you can take your own hot water and soap when washing somewhere else than home, and the grit guard makes the dirt you wash of your car stay at the buttom of the bucket.
Use lots of water, the more the better. You can't use to much water when washing a car. (but you can use to much soap making the mixture to strong, this also can disolve the wax)
Try a degreaser named bilthamber surfex hd. It is very good to loose up dirt, but not bugs and asphalt stains. This is a water based degreaser than can be thined out using water. For instance you can have 20 parts water and 1 part degreaser to make it mild.
That way you'll want disolve the wax the to much when using the degreaser, but it will loosen up the dirt so much that most of it will wash of with a preassure washer.
The remaining dirt will have to be washed away with a mitten and lots of water with soap. (the more soap water, the better the mitten will glide so the dirt disolves better, and doesn't leave any swirls.)
Instead of a chamois, try a microfiber towel especially for drying cars. They are very gentle to the paint. Something like the "chemical guys miracle dryer" or similar.
And as Bass mech says. Get your own pressure washer. It is so much easier to clean at home,
A powerfull electrical one works just fine. Preferably some known brand. They are built to last.
I have one myself, but because of the climate there are 5 months wintertime of the year I can't use it, in the winter time I use the indoor washing facilitys of my gas station, bringing my own soapwater and bucket.
10-09-13, 03:52 PM
#18
surprised no one mentioned this (or maybe someone did, i only scanned peoples responses) but pressure washing your car is not good. sure the majority of people do it, professionals even do it
thing is, when you hit the car with the pressure washer, youre hitting the dirt/sand etc and one thing that does is push the dirt/sand particles INTO and across the paint/clearcoat.
another thing, and this rarely if ever happens but can happen, is you can blast your paint right off sometimes if you hit it just right with a pressure washer, although that might be more likely on an older car.
thing is, when you hit the car with the pressure washer, youre hitting the dirt/sand etc and one thing that does is push the dirt/sand particles INTO and across the paint/clearcoat.
another thing, and this rarely if ever happens but can happen, is you can blast your paint right off sometimes if you hit it just right with a pressure washer, although that might be more likely on an older car.
10-09-13, 03:57 PM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
The issue for the OP is wiping down a car that:
1. Has not actually been washed, as others have said wash media has to touch the car to actualy remove the dirt firm on the paint surface
2. Has been driven home before being toweled down.
I would recommend thinking about using something like Optimum No Rinse at home instead of traveling to the wash bay.
Power washers aren't necessary...
1. Has not actually been washed, as others have said wash media has to touch the car to actualy remove the dirt firm on the paint surface
2. Has been driven home before being toweled down.
I would recommend thinking about using something like Optimum No Rinse at home instead of traveling to the wash bay.
Power washers aren't necessary...
10-09-13, 04:21 PM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
surprised no one mentioned this (or maybe someone did, i only scanned peoples responses) but pressure washing your car is not good. sure the majority of people do it, professionals even do it
thing is, when you hit the car with the pressure washer, youre hitting the dirt/sand etc and one thing that does is push the dirt/sand particles INTO and across the paint/clearcoat.
another thing, and this rarely if ever happens but can happen, is you can blast your paint right off sometimes if you hit it just right with a pressure washer, although that might be more likely on an older car.
thing is, when you hit the car with the pressure washer, youre hitting the dirt/sand etc and one thing that does is push the dirt/sand particles INTO and across the paint/clearcoat.
another thing, and this rarely if ever happens but can happen, is you can blast your paint right off sometimes if you hit it just right with a pressure washer, although that might be more likely on an older car.
i did put a hole in clear bra once trying to spray off a bug, it tore the clear bra but didn't affect the paint at all. however i would not recommend using a narrow high pressure tip at any distance.
10-09-13, 04:29 PM
#21
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surprised no one mentioned this (or maybe someone did, i only scanned peoples responses) but pressure washing your car is not good. sure the majority of people do it, professionals even do it
thing is, when you hit the car with the pressure washer, youre hitting the dirt/sand etc and one thing that does is push the dirt/sand particles INTO and across the paint/clearcoat.
another thing, and this rarely if ever happens but can happen, is you can blast your paint right off sometimes if you hit it just right with a pressure washer, although that might be more likely on an older car.
thing is, when you hit the car with the pressure washer, youre hitting the dirt/sand etc and one thing that does is push the dirt/sand particles INTO and across the paint/clearcoat.
another thing, and this rarely if ever happens but can happen, is you can blast your paint right off sometimes if you hit it just right with a pressure washer, although that might be more likely on an older car.
. My pressure washer has a nozzel tip labled "gentle" that is specifically for washing a car. 
10-15-13, 09:24 AM
#22
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Again, thanks to everyone. After swirl repair and a black wax, it appears the problem has been corrected. Now I have a new car wash regimen to make sure it doesn't happen again.
10-15-13, 11:53 AM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
Products like the "black wax" are designed to hide swirls. The fillers will wash away and the swirls will be back unless they were properly compounded out.
10-15-13, 12:58 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Unless you had it polished out by machine or somehow did it yourself, the swirls are still there they're just hidden. They'll be back.
10-15-13, 01:12 PM
#26
Pole Position
Thread Starter
My point in this post was to say that I saw some minor swirling and needed help to correct my car wash process to make sure they don't get worse and make sure I don't create more. I think I have that now.
10-16-13, 12:28 PM
#27
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Cool! Glad we could help. I'll admit..I miss having black cars. When they are washed/waxed properly, OH MAN...does it look sexy as hell. Now that I day trade, I have no time to do it right. Weekends are now for vegging out and turning my brain off. LOL.
10-17-13, 08:40 AM
#28
I too have obsidian paint and it looks great when clean but that look lasts for about a day then you get dust or whatever on the paint and you want to pull your hair out.
After reading through the entire thread, I think most points have been covered but there are some points worth clarifying.
touchless washes (with harsh soaps or not) will not get all the dirt off your car. Traffic film which is caused when dust, brake dust etc settles on the car, then gets exposed to moisture (dew, rain etc) and then dries on the car can only be removed by physically touching the paint. There are coatings like 22ple, cquartz, opticoat etc that create a harder surface that does not allow dirt to stick as well so the car stays cleaner longer. It might also prevent traffic film from bonding as strongly to the paint so you can spray off more dirt from the paint than an uncoated car, but it is best to assume that the paint is not 100% clean after a touchless wash. The fact that you then drive home while the car is wet, also allows new dirt to get on the car, and dry onto the surface.
there is a big difference between a rotary polisher and a dual action, especially on soft black paint. Taking a rotary polisher to your car weekly is too often. I polish my car once or twice a year with a dual action, to remove the fine marks that inevitably happen due to daily driving. To get rid of swirls means levelling the surrounding paint/clear to the level of the swirl, which means removing paint. If you do this everytime you see a swirl, eventually, you will compromise the paint so it's best to practice good washing and drying technique and live with light marks until your annual polishing, as opposed to chasing after every little blemish.
A good thing about coatings is they are much thicker than wax, cure harder than your original clearcoat in many cases, are not affected by the harsh soaps at the touchless, and they become the sacrificial layer that gets polished off when they eventually get marked up.
Here is how I would refine your process.
if the car is dirty, then take it through the touchless or DIY bay. I use the soap in the bay b/c it doesn't matter to me if the wax comes off since I will be putting protection back at the end of my process. I mostly concentrate on spraying the brake dust off the wheels and underbody mainly.
once home, do a rinseless wash with something like optimum no rinse or ultima waterless wash. Don't cheap out on the quality or number of microfibres used. Check out the Gary dean method on youtube. It is fast and you really minimize the chances of imparting drying marks on the car. Definitely ditch the chamois.
Finally, amp up the gloss and add protection with a spray wax like optimum car wax or duragloss aquawax.
The rinseless and spraywax afterwards should take you no more than 40 minutes.
If you want to make things even faster, Once you polish out those swirls, look into one of those glass based nano coatings like DP paint coating (it's a 2 step process, paint prep, then coating), then you take it to the touchless and do Gary Dean method at home. Once every couple years, you polish out any marks, then reapply the coating.
Easy peasy
After reading through the entire thread, I think most points have been covered but there are some points worth clarifying.
touchless washes (with harsh soaps or not) will not get all the dirt off your car. Traffic film which is caused when dust, brake dust etc settles on the car, then gets exposed to moisture (dew, rain etc) and then dries on the car can only be removed by physically touching the paint. There are coatings like 22ple, cquartz, opticoat etc that create a harder surface that does not allow dirt to stick as well so the car stays cleaner longer. It might also prevent traffic film from bonding as strongly to the paint so you can spray off more dirt from the paint than an uncoated car, but it is best to assume that the paint is not 100% clean after a touchless wash. The fact that you then drive home while the car is wet, also allows new dirt to get on the car, and dry onto the surface.
there is a big difference between a rotary polisher and a dual action, especially on soft black paint. Taking a rotary polisher to your car weekly is too often. I polish my car once or twice a year with a dual action, to remove the fine marks that inevitably happen due to daily driving. To get rid of swirls means levelling the surrounding paint/clear to the level of the swirl, which means removing paint. If you do this everytime you see a swirl, eventually, you will compromise the paint so it's best to practice good washing and drying technique and live with light marks until your annual polishing, as opposed to chasing after every little blemish.
A good thing about coatings is they are much thicker than wax, cure harder than your original clearcoat in many cases, are not affected by the harsh soaps at the touchless, and they become the sacrificial layer that gets polished off when they eventually get marked up.
Here is how I would refine your process.
if the car is dirty, then take it through the touchless or DIY bay. I use the soap in the bay b/c it doesn't matter to me if the wax comes off since I will be putting protection back at the end of my process. I mostly concentrate on spraying the brake dust off the wheels and underbody mainly.
once home, do a rinseless wash with something like optimum no rinse or ultima waterless wash. Don't cheap out on the quality or number of microfibres used. Check out the Gary dean method on youtube. It is fast and you really minimize the chances of imparting drying marks on the car. Definitely ditch the chamois.
Finally, amp up the gloss and add protection with a spray wax like optimum car wax or duragloss aquawax.
The rinseless and spraywax afterwards should take you no more than 40 minutes.
If you want to make things even faster, Once you polish out those swirls, look into one of those glass based nano coatings like DP paint coating (it's a 2 step process, paint prep, then coating), then you take it to the touchless and do Gary Dean method at home. Once every couple years, you polish out any marks, then reapply the coating.
Easy peasy
Last edited by embolism; 10-17-13 at 09:03 AM.
10-17-13, 10:34 AM
#29
There is so much wrong with the OP's original wash method and some of the advice given that I will not even attempt to respond to everything...
Some key points to touch on (although embolism made some similar points in the previous post):
1) NEVER LET THE DEALERSHIP DETAIL OR WASH OR TOUCH YOUR CAR - end of discussion.
2) High quality, professional grade products DO make a difference. Just because a towel at walmart is called a microfiber drying towel doesn't mean you should be using it. Those types of towels are OK to use on interior, wheels, and exhaust tips but I would never let them touch my paint.
3) You need to be hand washing your car using the 3 bucket method.
PLEASE CLICK HERE to read an article on how to properly wash and dry your vehicle. This was written by Todd Cooperider, a very well known and respected professional among the detailing community.
4) Obsidian is a very soft and sensitive paint - I am sorry for anyone who has to maintain one on a regular basis. There will be light marring and swirls that appear over time... it's just a fact of life. Your car will need to be lightly polished every year or two to remove these minor surface defects.
5) If you truly want to simplify your maintenance routine and help protect your vehicle, seek out a professional and have a premium coating like CQuartz Finest applied to your vehicle. CQuartz Finest will provide you with years of durable protection against UV damage, water spots, bird bombs, etc. It is harder than your clear coat and therefore provides a level of protection against light swirls and marring. It is also resistant to dirt and dust, making your vehicle stay cleaner for longer periods of time and making it much easier to wash your vehicle since dirt easily wipes away. More info and you can find an installer in your area at www.CQFinest.com
-Zach
Some key points to touch on (although embolism made some similar points in the previous post):
1) NEVER LET THE DEALERSHIP DETAIL OR WASH OR TOUCH YOUR CAR - end of discussion.
2) High quality, professional grade products DO make a difference. Just because a towel at walmart is called a microfiber drying towel doesn't mean you should be using it. Those types of towels are OK to use on interior, wheels, and exhaust tips but I would never let them touch my paint.
3) You need to be hand washing your car using the 3 bucket method.
PLEASE CLICK HERE to read an article on how to properly wash and dry your vehicle. This was written by Todd Cooperider, a very well known and respected professional among the detailing community.
4) Obsidian is a very soft and sensitive paint - I am sorry for anyone who has to maintain one on a regular basis. There will be light marring and swirls that appear over time... it's just a fact of life. Your car will need to be lightly polished every year or two to remove these minor surface defects.
5) If you truly want to simplify your maintenance routine and help protect your vehicle, seek out a professional and have a premium coating like CQuartz Finest applied to your vehicle. CQuartz Finest will provide you with years of durable protection against UV damage, water spots, bird bombs, etc. It is harder than your clear coat and therefore provides a level of protection against light swirls and marring. It is also resistant to dirt and dust, making your vehicle stay cleaner for longer periods of time and making it much easier to wash your vehicle since dirt easily wipes away. More info and you can find an installer in your area at www.CQFinest.com
-Zach
Last edited by zmcgovern4; 10-17-13 at 10:43 AM.
10-27-13, 02:07 PM
#30
I have cquartz finest on mine and starting to see swirls. I use the three bucket method with grit guards. Actually have 2 grit guards in the buckets. Use sheepskin mitt and a leaf blower to dry. I used the same tips as Todd Cooperider as mentioned in the post above. Any idea what I'm doing wrong and tips? Probably dumb question, but is it just the cquartz coating that has the swirls or is it on the paint now?