IS250 AWD F-Sport vs Cadillac ATS 2.0T AWD
09-25-13, 06:16 PM
#16
there's going to come a time when everyone needs to drop the "I hate American" argument. There's essentially an equilibrium coming where quality will be roughly the same. Many American vehicles are much improved (check out your latest CR), and some Japanese cars lost some quality. Granted everyone is on an uphill trend now again. It'll come down to feature content and the buyers favorite design/brand. Nothings perfect, and not every BMW you buy will be a lemon and not every Honda you buy will be trouble free 
American corporations have never given a rats *** about Americans. Using the “Made in America” and “Buy American” slogans they pumped out crap and exploited well meaning Americans who wanted to support them and their country. Americans bought that junk because of patriotism that was never reciprocated.
GM, Ford and Chrysler would still be selling high margin and horrible cars if it weren’t for the Japanese. The mea culpa only came about when their crapola business model couldn’t be sustained anymore.
09-25-13, 06:28 PM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
It has nothing to do with quality, features or price. I will not buy American on principle. A few years back 60 minutes did an interview with a French private contractor. She asked why his company put so much care and the finest of materials into the construction of the roads. He replied, “Why because French people will be driving them.”
American corporations have never given a rats *** about Americans. Using the “Made in America” and “Buy American” slogans they pumped out crap and exploited well meaning Americans who wanted to support them and their country. Americans bought that junk because of patriotism that was never reciprocated.
GM, Ford and Chrysler would still be selling high margin and horrible cars if it weren’t for the Japanese. The mea culpa only came about when their crapola business model couldn’t be sustained anymore.
American corporations have never given a rats *** about Americans. Using the “Made in America” and “Buy American” slogans they pumped out crap and exploited well meaning Americans who wanted to support them and their country. Americans bought that junk because of patriotism that was never reciprocated.
GM, Ford and Chrysler would still be selling high margin and horrible cars if it weren’t for the Japanese. The mea culpa only came about when their crapola business model couldn’t be sustained anymore.
aside from the IS many of the Japanese brands are assembled inside the US go figure!
09-25-13, 06:43 PM
#18
It has nothing to do with quality, features or price. I will not buy American on principle. A few years back 60 minutes did an interview with a French private contractor. She asked why his company put so much care and the finest of materials into the construction of the roads. He replied, “Why because French people will be driving them.”
American corporations have never given a rats *** about Americans. Using the “Made in America” and “Buy American” slogans they pumped out crap and exploited well meaning Americans who wanted to support them and their country. Americans bought that junk because of patriotism that was never reciprocated.
GM, Ford and Chrysler would still be selling high margin and horrible cars if it weren’t for the Japanese. The mea culpa only came about when their crapola business model couldn’t be sustained anymore.
American corporations have never given a rats *** about Americans. Using the “Made in America” and “Buy American” slogans they pumped out crap and exploited well meaning Americans who wanted to support them and their country. Americans bought that junk because of patriotism that was never reciprocated.
GM, Ford and Chrysler would still be selling high margin and horrible cars if it weren’t for the Japanese. The mea culpa only came about when their crapola business model couldn’t be sustained anymore.
09-25-13, 07:00 PM
#19
If it's your principle then fine, but the point is to stay in business you have to make adjustments and that's just want American automakers did. They have very competent cars now and to dismiss them based off a badge really has no merit - that's the point I'm trying to get across
If a man doesn't stand for something, he'll fall for anything. That is merit enough. I choose not to buy American cars because they were frauds for years.
The new GM emerged in 2009. The cars produced under the new regime all under 5 years old - the oldest gen is 4 years old. I know my IS will last 10 years -- with no major problems. There is reams of data to support my confidence.
Let's see how this touted quality holds up for GM and Ford when they hit 6,7 years old.
09-25-13, 10:44 PM
#20
Let me turn that around on you then. The IS we have today is the result of as you wrote, "the point is to stay in business you have to make adjustments."
If a man doesn't stand for something, he'll fall for anything. That is merit enough. I choose not to buy American cars because they were frauds for years.
The new GM emerged in 2009. The cars produced under the new regime all under 5 years old - the oldest gen is 4 years old. I know my IS will last 10 years -- with no major problems. There is reams of data to support my confidence.
Let's see how this touted quality holds up for GM and Ford when they hit 6,7 years old.
If a man doesn't stand for something, he'll fall for anything. That is merit enough. I choose not to buy American cars because they were frauds for years.
The new GM emerged in 2009. The cars produced under the new regime all under 5 years old - the oldest gen is 4 years old. I know my IS will last 10 years -- with no major problems. There is reams of data to support my confidence.
Let's see how this touted quality holds up for GM and Ford when they hit 6,7 years old.
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a guest in our home.
If you think you can’t, you won’t …
If you think you can, you will!
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Have you really come to accept poor grade materials (see post #4 https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=710711) in a luxury brand let alone Lexus? Has everyone? If you have, then I feel sorry for everyone lowering such standards.
You'll have to pardon me for wanting Lexus to put the Luxury back into the L badge. After all these are supposed to be Grand Touring sedans, coupes and SUVs. A certain level of sophistication is seemingly attached or rather implied vs Sport sedans, coupes and SUVs that are allowed a more raw prowess.
In the end automakers have two choices, the easy cheap bean counting way or the right way. Suffice to say there is a lot more of the former than the latter.
For what it's worth I do believe Lexus can remedy the issue at hand and only improve. Once again establishing itself as a world class maker of Luxury vehicles.
09-26-13, 12:50 AM
#21
Pole Position
09-26-13, 05:03 AM
#22
Racer
If it's between an ATS 2.0 and IS250. Go for the Caddy. How earth can you feel cool when in the back of your mine you know a Honda civic can probaly pass you on the highway. Go for the IS350
09-26-13, 08:14 AM
#23
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09-26-13, 09:07 AM
#24
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Wait, have you driven the two cars? The ATS will blow the doors of the IS250. It's a full friggin second and a half faster in 0-60. You just can't gloss over the powertrain issues of the IS250. It is NOT competitive in 2013.
My only criticism of the ATS is teh stupid run flat tires.
My only criticism of the ATS is teh stupid run flat tires.
09-26-13, 10:17 AM
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Wait, have you driven the two cars? The ATS will blow the doors of the IS250. It's a full friggin second and a half faster in 0-60. You just can't gloss over the powertrain issues of the IS250. It is NOT competitive in 2013.
My only criticism of the ATS is teh stupid run flat tires.
My only criticism of the ATS is teh stupid run flat tires.
09-26-13, 10:58 AM
#27
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For those of us in winter climates. considerable expense in getting winter run flats. The alternate solution is to run regular winters, and pray you don't get a flat. Better keep the GM roadside assistance number handy.
Last edited by mrraider; 09-26-13 at 12:47 PM.
09-26-13, 11:47 AM
#28
Lexus Test Driver
and for me i have all but forgotten the 250 even exists! i think that is a gutless POS engine and mostly because i live at 6,500 feet. if you live at or near SL it may be adequate, but just adequate. if you really want performance the 350 is the only way to go. and i seriously doubt you can lease one for 400 a month or even 500 more like 600-650 and with nothing down for 36 months at 10k a year.
of course i am biased, im getting the 350 but i guess it all depends on your budget.
I have the second generation and I hate how slow it is for the gas mileage it has. Acura TL gets the same gas mileage and the engine is a 3.5 280hp. How sad is that. IS for me means 350 that's it. IS250 is a shame.
On the other hand the power might be enough for some. Test drive it a lot before take any decision so you won;t regret it after.
Im with the others about american cars, JUNK.. I'll never trust quality can be bought from American manufacture but if you lease the car will be under warranty for the entire lease period so you should not worry to much.
Did you consider the BMW?
Last edited by keyframe13; 09-26-13 at 11:58 AM.
09-26-13, 12:59 PM
#29
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Volvo s60 T5 AWD
Mb c300 4matic
Audi a4 quattro
Caddy ATS 2.0 AWD
I'm not so fond of the 320i. It's seriously stripped down and deconted compared to the 328i. The volvo and the Caddy have free maintenance.
09-26-13, 03:04 PM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
Hard decision, the ATS is a very nice package. The IS is a little more refined in every area, but the ATS has an "edge" to it that is also appealing.
Inside I prefer the ATS in every way but the gauge cluster. That 1990 era Buick styled gauge cluster with the half-moon speedometer is just terrible, especially in a sport sedan. At least in the CTS and XTS you can get the CUE virtual gauges which are better, no option in the ATS though.
Compared to the 250 I might get the ATS, but not compared to the 350.
Inside I prefer the ATS in every way but the gauge cluster. That 1990 era Buick styled gauge cluster with the half-moon speedometer is just terrible, especially in a sport sedan. At least in the CTS and XTS you can get the CUE virtual gauges which are better, no option in the ATS though.
Compared to the 250 I might get the ATS, but not compared to the 350.
