Motortrend "First Test" & their comment on turn signal
08-29-13, 10:56 AM
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Motortrend "First Test" & their comment on turn signal
Motortrend's just-published "First Test" of the 2014 IS350 F Sport:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rt_first_test/
“What did get old was the one-touch turn signal stalk. It was too sensitive, and when trying to cancel the signal, I would often activate the turn signal for the other direction.”
Over the past 15 - 20 years I have observed a repeating pattern whenever any new car or motorcycle first comes out, in the way that early buyers who rushed out to buy it, react and behave on Internet forums. There is a gamut of behavior, with two extremes. At one extreme, there are people who nitpick and whine over every damn thing that they can think of. I think that they are distraught over the amount of money that they know that they just spent, and can’t get over it. They imagine that there are mechanical issues that are not even real. This is particularly true with motorcycles. At the other extreme of the gamut, there are people conduct themselves in an angry, aggressive, HOSTILE manner toward anyone who has the audacity to say ANYTHING even remotely negative about the car. Why do they behave this way? Do they really believe that their new car is absolutely perfect in every way? If so, they almost certainly defended their previous car in the same manner right up until the day they traded it in, and will almost certainly change their tune about their brand new car the day they trade it in. Why is it exactly that people behave in this way? Evidently, they derive so much of their sense of self-worth from their new purchase that whenever anyone points out that it is flawed in some way or another, it is much the same as telling them that their entire ancestry consists of people who are genetically inferior to the rest of the population.
The turn signal in the new IS350 is a bad, bad design. There just isn’t any getting around this, and it is just plain silly for anyone to assert otherwise. It is a bad design, and it is just that simple. Say it to yourself, and if it bugs you, repeat it until you can say it with flinching or wanting to punch someone. Bad design. Bad design. Bad design.
I have about as much use for a turn signal (setting) that automatically turns off after a fixed number of blinks (3, 5 or whatever it is) as I would have for an engine that automatically turns off after it has been running for 10 minutes. I just am not able to see any genuine, sincere purpose or value in that particular capability. And if you set aside that aspect of it, what are you left with? A turn signal that immediately returns to the middle position each time you set it, which means that turning it off manually is going to be a nuisance.
Several people here have identified various things that they would like to see Lexus change whenever they get around to changing stuff, be it the 2015 model, or in three or four years, or whenever. That is all fine, and I would not object to an extra 50 hp. But to my way of thinking, this stupidly designed turn signal is the thing that Lexus really, really needs to fix on this car. As soon as possible. And although I know that I am going to get flamed for this, probably by a lot of people, I just do not care. I have been right about a lot of things in my life, and wrong about a lot of things, but I am absolutely certain that I am right about this. I have rarely been more certain about anything, nor more right about anything. This turn signal is a really, really stupid design, and will be an annoyance for the driver from the day he/she drives it off the lot until the day he/she trades it in.
I want for lots of people to agree, so that Lexus will clearly understand that it needs to be fixed, as soon as possible. If people are unwilling to agree and insist that there isn't really anything wrong with it, Lexus will have no reason to fix it, which will be unfortunate. Lexus needs to be sent a message, loud and clear, that this is a bad design and badly needs to be fixed.
But, Internet forums being what they are, and human behavior being what it is, the only likely effect of my doing this is that a bunch of people are going to strongly disagree and call me all sorts of bad stuff, which they will do because their priorities are screwed up.
Let the flaming begin.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rt_first_test/
“What did get old was the one-touch turn signal stalk. It was too sensitive, and when trying to cancel the signal, I would often activate the turn signal for the other direction.”
Over the past 15 - 20 years I have observed a repeating pattern whenever any new car or motorcycle first comes out, in the way that early buyers who rushed out to buy it, react and behave on Internet forums. There is a gamut of behavior, with two extremes. At one extreme, there are people who nitpick and whine over every damn thing that they can think of. I think that they are distraught over the amount of money that they know that they just spent, and can’t get over it. They imagine that there are mechanical issues that are not even real. This is particularly true with motorcycles. At the other extreme of the gamut, there are people conduct themselves in an angry, aggressive, HOSTILE manner toward anyone who has the audacity to say ANYTHING even remotely negative about the car. Why do they behave this way? Do they really believe that their new car is absolutely perfect in every way? If so, they almost certainly defended their previous car in the same manner right up until the day they traded it in, and will almost certainly change their tune about their brand new car the day they trade it in. Why is it exactly that people behave in this way? Evidently, they derive so much of their sense of self-worth from their new purchase that whenever anyone points out that it is flawed in some way or another, it is much the same as telling them that their entire ancestry consists of people who are genetically inferior to the rest of the population.
The turn signal in the new IS350 is a bad, bad design. There just isn’t any getting around this, and it is just plain silly for anyone to assert otherwise. It is a bad design, and it is just that simple. Say it to yourself, and if it bugs you, repeat it until you can say it with flinching or wanting to punch someone. Bad design. Bad design. Bad design.
I have about as much use for a turn signal (setting) that automatically turns off after a fixed number of blinks (3, 5 or whatever it is) as I would have for an engine that automatically turns off after it has been running for 10 minutes. I just am not able to see any genuine, sincere purpose or value in that particular capability. And if you set aside that aspect of it, what are you left with? A turn signal that immediately returns to the middle position each time you set it, which means that turning it off manually is going to be a nuisance.
Several people here have identified various things that they would like to see Lexus change whenever they get around to changing stuff, be it the 2015 model, or in three or four years, or whenever. That is all fine, and I would not object to an extra 50 hp. But to my way of thinking, this stupidly designed turn signal is the thing that Lexus really, really needs to fix on this car. As soon as possible. And although I know that I am going to get flamed for this, probably by a lot of people, I just do not care. I have been right about a lot of things in my life, and wrong about a lot of things, but I am absolutely certain that I am right about this. I have rarely been more certain about anything, nor more right about anything. This turn signal is a really, really stupid design, and will be an annoyance for the driver from the day he/she drives it off the lot until the day he/she trades it in.
I want for lots of people to agree, so that Lexus will clearly understand that it needs to be fixed, as soon as possible. If people are unwilling to agree and insist that there isn't really anything wrong with it, Lexus will have no reason to fix it, which will be unfortunate. Lexus needs to be sent a message, loud and clear, that this is a bad design and badly needs to be fixed.
But, Internet forums being what they are, and human behavior being what it is, the only likely effect of my doing this is that a bunch of people are going to strongly disagree and call me all sorts of bad stuff, which they will do because their priorities are screwed up.
Let the flaming begin.
08-29-13, 11:32 AM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
No flaming. Just wondered if you test drove the car, used the turn signal, and determined you hated it then? Or did the hate start once you got her home and had had a chance to take a few spins in her? Either way, I hope they do a service campaign to fix the "faulty" turn signal, just for you! 
08-29-13, 11:38 AM
#3
You have alreday made one tread about this.
Here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...on-new-is.html
To make another just because people in the old thread did not agree with you won't change other peoples opinion.
And why is this such a big issue for you? You have only tried the car once. And you stated yourself that you did not understand how the indicator did work when you tried it. So why do you hate it so much when you haven't even tried to get used to it?
You have not bought the car. If the indicator bugs you so much, buy something else.
As I've already said, I respect your opinion. But you do not seem to respect the opinion of people who thinks that the design works.
Because you state that the design is bad, period.
I'll reapeat my statement from the other tread:
The point of having a 3\5 blinker function is to not having to return the handle back to the neutral position. For instance if you change lanes on the highway, make a very soft turn when the road splits or if you signal out of a roundabout. In all these cases the blinker will keep on blinking if you have put it on. Therefor a quick touch of the blinker makes the signal flash a few times.
All modern cars are equipped with this function. And I use it a lot because we have many roundabouts where I live. I like the function because it makes signaling easier.
If the blinker returns to the center position or stays in the position you've set it in is a small detail. I do not get why this is such big issue for you?
If you want a car that doesn't have any modern equipment, buy an old camry. The ride is just as comfortable as in a lexus
Here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...on-new-is.html
To make another just because people in the old thread did not agree with you won't change other peoples opinion.
And why is this such a big issue for you? You have only tried the car once. And you stated yourself that you did not understand how the indicator did work when you tried it. So why do you hate it so much when you haven't even tried to get used to it?
You have not bought the car. If the indicator bugs you so much, buy something else.
As I've already said, I respect your opinion. But you do not seem to respect the opinion of people who thinks that the design works.
Because you state that the design is bad, period.
I'll reapeat my statement from the other tread:
The only difference is that in the lexus the handle returns to the middle, while in normal cars it is stuck in the blinking position.
If you need to turn of the blinker in a normal car, you pull it in the other direction, but only to the center position, but in the lexus, since it alredy is in the center position, you still pull it in the oppsite direction, only further down.
As I said, the only difference is that it returns to center position.
If you need to turn of the blinker in a normal car, you pull it in the other direction, but only to the center position, but in the lexus, since it alredy is in the center position, you still pull it in the oppsite direction, only further down.
As I said, the only difference is that it returns to center position.
All modern cars are equipped with this function. And I use it a lot because we have many roundabouts where I live. I like the function because it makes signaling easier.
If the blinker returns to the center position or stays in the position you've set it in is a small detail. I do not get why this is such big issue for you?
If you want a car that doesn't have any modern equipment, buy an old camry. The ride is just as comfortable as in a lexus
08-29-13, 12:48 PM
#4
Keyser, I disagree that it's a bad design and would recommend that you use it for a longer period of time before casting judgment. And, to clarify, it's not a bad design in the 2014 IS; it's a bad design by Lexus. It's already present on the GS, so it isn't unique to the IS. I'm sure others here could point out other Lexus cars it's in.
As I mentioned in the other thread, it wasn't intuitive when I began using the new turn signal, but it took no more than a day or two to get used to the new paradigm. It actually improves on the turn signals we've all used for the last few decades. I'm sure that's why Lexus decided to use it.
First, it does what every turn signal has ever done: you lift it up or press it down for a continuous turn signal for left or right turns. It automatically shuts off after the turn has been made. So Lexus has followed the first rule of user design: don't break what already works just fine.
Second, it improves on the lane change signal. In most cars, you lightly press the turn signal up or down as you merge lanes. If you take pressure off the signal, the blinker stops blinking. If the turning wheel gets in the way of holding the signal in place, the flasher stops before you're ready. With Lexus' design, you press the signal once and the flashers continue for the 3-7 blinks.
It's actually an improvement over past designs, but you fail to see it because you haven't used it on a regular basis. Anyone who bases their decision on your opinion will be sadly misinformed because your opinion is uninformed. I'm not saying it's wrong -- you might be entirely correct. The problem is that you don't have enough information to render an opinion, and you pre-emptively accuse people of flaming if they disagree with you.
You clearly have a lot of experience on internet forums because you're using well-worn fallacious debate techniques to try and push your opinion on others. Why don't you express your opinion and let others have theirs, instead of leveling accusations at those who disagree with you?
Come back when you've bought or rented an IS or GS for a few days. Then your opinion will be worth listening to.
As I mentioned in the other thread, it wasn't intuitive when I began using the new turn signal, but it took no more than a day or two to get used to the new paradigm. It actually improves on the turn signals we've all used for the last few decades. I'm sure that's why Lexus decided to use it.
First, it does what every turn signal has ever done: you lift it up or press it down for a continuous turn signal for left or right turns. It automatically shuts off after the turn has been made. So Lexus has followed the first rule of user design: don't break what already works just fine.
Second, it improves on the lane change signal. In most cars, you lightly press the turn signal up or down as you merge lanes. If you take pressure off the signal, the blinker stops blinking. If the turning wheel gets in the way of holding the signal in place, the flasher stops before you're ready. With Lexus' design, you press the signal once and the flashers continue for the 3-7 blinks.
It's actually an improvement over past designs, but you fail to see it because you haven't used it on a regular basis. Anyone who bases their decision on your opinion will be sadly misinformed because your opinion is uninformed. I'm not saying it's wrong -- you might be entirely correct. The problem is that you don't have enough information to render an opinion, and you pre-emptively accuse people of flaming if they disagree with you.
You clearly have a lot of experience on internet forums because you're using well-worn fallacious debate techniques to try and push your opinion on others. Why don't you express your opinion and let others have theirs, instead of leveling accusations at those who disagree with you?
Come back when you've bought or rented an IS or GS for a few days. Then your opinion will be worth listening to.
08-29-13, 01:01 PM
#6
Keyser ... I said the same thing on the old thread and I agree that it is sensitive, but I judged it too early since I only test drove the car once and for 19 km and 40 min . Anyway I also agree with enoren that we need to try it for a few days then give our verdict .
Last edited by AMNss; 08-29-13 at 01:06 PM.
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08-29-13, 04:17 PM
#10
Motortrend??? This is the best backup you have? That is TV dude...completely biased and manipulated to fit their own agenda. I have so many issues with this reality tv clip I really don't know where to begin. Yes...aside from the minimal specifications given, (which this out-of-shape mess of a driver didnt discover himself) this is realty TV. Now, it might occur to me that you think reality tv is real. The Kardashians have a harsh life right? Hard time shaving maybe...anyways.
You found an OUT OF SHAPE (matters because this is a sport) driver who expresses some discomfort with the blinker (for crying out loud) and now your subjective view is correct? haha...
Motortrend is taking a $50,000 vehicle and reducing it to a pansy complain about a blinker lever? Not that it doesnt work...but that it works "differently". Give us a break man. He also complains about the mouse and how "ugly" the IS is. This is all he has?!?!?! OF COURSE IT IS! He has to resort to emotional complaints to even out the score between the IS and the sad fate of the new G... which we can all agree is sad. The G was/is a great car but the Q50 not so much. Now I digress.
You started by asking how to shut off the blinker, you didn't receive advice but rather ANSWERS and then you voice your opinion that it is a bad design (fine) and then people disagree with your opinion (fine) and THEN you disagree with their opinions (less fine) and THEN you start another thread to "prove" your were "right"? How old are you??
"seeeeeee......i told you it was a bad design.....TAG you're it!!"
I really hope you keep your comments to yourself in the future as someone has already stated here in this thread. You don't add value to this forum and worse, you add negativity to one of the most respectful and helpful forums I've been a part of. You've alienated yourself by offending many.
OH...CL members...in case you don't know, ALL of this is for a car he currently doesn't own. jesus...
You found an OUT OF SHAPE (matters because this is a sport) driver who expresses some discomfort with the blinker (for crying out loud) and now your subjective view is correct? haha...
Motortrend is taking a $50,000 vehicle and reducing it to a pansy complain about a blinker lever? Not that it doesnt work...but that it works "differently". Give us a break man. He also complains about the mouse and how "ugly" the IS is. This is all he has?!?!?! OF COURSE IT IS! He has to resort to emotional complaints to even out the score between the IS and the sad fate of the new G... which we can all agree is sad. The G was/is a great car but the Q50 not so much. Now I digress.
You started by asking how to shut off the blinker, you didn't receive advice but rather ANSWERS and then you voice your opinion that it is a bad design (fine) and then people disagree with your opinion (fine) and THEN you disagree with their opinions (less fine) and THEN you start another thread to "prove" your were "right"? How old are you??
"seeeeeee......i told you it was a bad design.....TAG you're it!!"
I really hope you keep your comments to yourself in the future as someone has already stated here in this thread. You don't add value to this forum and worse, you add negativity to one of the most respectful and helpful forums I've been a part of. You've alienated yourself by offending many.
OH...CL members...in case you don't know, ALL of this is for a car he currently doesn't own. jesus...
08-29-13, 04:35 PM
#11
“What did get old was the one-touch turn signal stalk. It was too sensitive, and when trying to cancel the signal, I would often activate the turn signal for the other direction.”
08-29-13, 06:54 PM
#13
Driver School Candidate
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When I first got my new 3IS I had difficulty getting used to the turn signal. It took me about a week to get accustomed to the sensitivity. Know that I have a feel for it, it's actually really nice. I just give it a gently nudge when changing lanes and a bigger nudge when actually turning a corner. It's not as big a deal as people are making it out to be. Just give it time before you judge.
08-29-13, 07:00 PM
#14
The pursuit of F
You have alreday made one tread about this.
Here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...on-new-is.html
To make another just because people in the old thread did not agree with you won't change other peoples opinion.
Here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...on-new-is.html
To make another just because people in the old thread did not agree with you won't change other peoples opinion.
And I won't repeat what I too wrote in that thread but essentially, I'm now in my 7th day of ownership and I'm loving the turn signal operation and its slick buttery yet firm feel so much more! Makes the traditional stalk feel cheap and clunky in comparison. Lexus engineers, BRILLIANT!!!!
08-29-13, 07:05 PM
#15
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...At the other extreme of the gamut, there are people conduct themselves in an angry, aggressive, HOSTILE manner toward anyone who has the audacity to say ANYTHING even remotely negative about the car. Why do they behave this way? Do they really believe that their new car is absolutely perfect in every way? If so, they almost certainly defended their previous car in the same manner right up until the day they traded it in, and will almost certainly change their tune about their brand new car the day they trade it in. Why is it exactly that people behave in this way? Evidently, they derive so much of their sense of self-worth from their new purchase that whenever anyone points out that it is flawed in some way or another, it is much the same as telling them that their entire ancestry consists of people who are genetically inferior to the rest of the population.