2014 Lexus IS350 Beats 2014 BMW 335i...Again
07-25-13, 03:04 AM
#1
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2014 Lexus IS350 Beats 2014 BMW 335i...Again
Interesting review format.
EveryDay Driver does a standalone review of each car : the BMW 335i, the Cadillac ATS and the Lexus IS350, then at the end compare the 3 cars against each other and comes up with an overall ranking.
BMW 335i Review
Cadillac ATS Review
Lexus IS350 Review and Overall Ranking
In a nutshell, both reviewers ranked the IS first, ATS second and 3 series dead last.
Their points are uncannily similar to the previous Car and Driver Comparo that the IS won :
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
1) BMW 335i has the best straightline speed but has the worst steering/handling and least involving drive.
2) ATS has the best handling/steering but lags behind in almost everything else.
3) Lexus IS is good-to-great in every department and is the most complete car.
4) The IS350's adaptive suspension is the most surprising feature of the car : in normal/eco mode and daily city driving, it is a comfortable Camry-like appliance. Switch to Sport+ mode and show it a winding canyon road and it flips 180 degrees and transforms into a track beast.
4) Both reviewers were SHOCKED that they both liked the Lexus the most of the 3 cars.
I suspect many people who have posted here expressing disappointment with the IS350's performance did not come near to pushing the car's capabilities like these 2 reviewers did on that winding Canyon blast. Seems like the low-end torque of the 335i makes such an early good impression that it masks the deficiencies of the F30 chassis. Deficiencies that will come to the surface when the BMW chassis meets a technically challenging road course.
EveryDay Driver does a standalone review of each car : the BMW 335i, the Cadillac ATS and the Lexus IS350, then at the end compare the 3 cars against each other and comes up with an overall ranking.
BMW 335i Review
Cadillac ATS Review
Lexus IS350 Review and Overall Ranking
In a nutshell, both reviewers ranked the IS first, ATS second and 3 series dead last.
Their points are uncannily similar to the previous Car and Driver Comparo that the IS won :
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
1) BMW 335i has the best straightline speed but has the worst steering/handling and least involving drive.
2) ATS has the best handling/steering but lags behind in almost everything else.
3) Lexus IS is good-to-great in every department and is the most complete car.
4) The IS350's adaptive suspension is the most surprising feature of the car : in normal/eco mode and daily city driving, it is a comfortable Camry-like appliance. Switch to Sport+ mode and show it a winding canyon road and it flips 180 degrees and transforms into a track beast.
4) Both reviewers were SHOCKED that they both liked the Lexus the most of the 3 cars.
I suspect many people who have posted here expressing disappointment with the IS350's performance did not come near to pushing the car's capabilities like these 2 reviewers did on that winding Canyon blast. Seems like the low-end torque of the 335i makes such an early good impression that it masks the deficiencies of the F30 chassis. Deficiencies that will come to the surface when the BMW chassis meets a technically challenging road course.
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sixbanger (11-14-18)
07-25-13, 06:35 AM
#5
Natnut,
Thanks for the videos. For our market, we can only compare 328i to IS250. I think the verdict will swing the other way. And while the IS300h has taken 50% of the IS sales so far, that's an even more sluggish performer, though the 60% more economical on my test. Even the 116i felt a lot more responsive. As for the 350 that we don't get, it's too slow in a straight line, something for cut and thrust traffic and lots of $$$ I would expect it to have. So 2 things may have happened, either Lexus is determined to make its cars slower than before, or they have something up their sleeve they don't want to reveal yet. For me, might as well wait for a cushy sedan in the shape of a GS300h and not seek the performance. I wonder if this would have driven not just me, but other loyal fans elsewhere?
Thanks for the videos. For our market, we can only compare 328i to IS250. I think the verdict will swing the other way. And while the IS300h has taken 50% of the IS sales so far, that's an even more sluggish performer, though the 60% more economical on my test. Even the 116i felt a lot more responsive. As for the 350 that we don't get, it's too slow in a straight line, something for cut and thrust traffic and lots of $$$ I would expect it to have. So 2 things may have happened, either Lexus is determined to make its cars slower than before, or they have something up their sleeve they don't want to reveal yet. For me, might as well wait for a cushy sedan in the shape of a GS300h and not seek the performance. I wonder if this would have driven not just me, but other loyal fans elsewhere?
07-25-13, 06:43 AM
#6
Advanced
Again, this is all about "feel". I'm too lazy to search - any evidence of IS350 beating 335i on the track (i.e making faster laps) WITH TIMES to prove?? Until then I have a very hard time believing in Lexus superior handling. Digits of slalom and grip, etc on paper mean nothing...
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07-25-13, 07:24 AM
#8
BMW = Power + Prestige
IS350 Fsport = Precision + everything working together to accomplish a goal
Those of you who know anything about high end plasma displays will get this. According to Cnet the Pioneer Kuro measures deeper black levels than the Panasonic ZT60 BUT the ZT60 looks blacker in all environments.
In the end it is all about perception and feel. That's what I drive for. Otherwise I'd need a digital display on the dash looping track lap speeds + skid pad tests, etc. to remind me that even though my car doesn't feel as good as the others -- it is in fact superior by the numbers.
IS350 Fsport = Precision + everything working together to accomplish a goal
Those of you who know anything about high end plasma displays will get this. According to Cnet the Pioneer Kuro measures deeper black levels than the Panasonic ZT60 BUT the ZT60 looks blacker in all environments.
In the end it is all about perception and feel. That's what I drive for. Otherwise I'd need a digital display on the dash looping track lap speeds + skid pad tests, etc. to remind me that even though my car doesn't feel as good as the others -- it is in fact superior by the numbers.
07-25-13, 07:57 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
I am genuinely sad at how low BMW has fallen.
BMW used to win comparisons NOT because it was the fastest accelerating car, NOT because it was the grippiest car, NOT because it was the most spacious car but BECAUSE of its legendary "feel" and driving engagement.
Number crunching and splitting hairs over a few fractions of lap times, skidpad G's, 0-60, 1/4 mile trap speeds was best left to the losers in Lexus/Infiniti/Audi/Mercedes.
BMW drivers KNEW they had the most connected, most fun to drive car in the market. The Proof, as they say, was in the pudding : just get behind the wheel of a BMW and let the driving experience speak for itself.
Now?
Review after review lambast the BMW for abandoning its enthusiast roots in order to chase market share, with the nett result of BMWs losing their famed road-driver-car connectedness. And BMW fans are forced to resort to arguments like 0-60, torque, lap times and skidpad to prop up their increasingly hollow claim of being "drivers' cars".
Worse when they start talking about "curb appeal" and "practicality" as daily-drivers in order to shore up the F30/F10 series of sedans.
Let us all take a moment of silence and mark a watershed point : when BMW died as an enthusiast icon and was reborn as a masterpiece in mass-marketing.
Bavarian Marketing Works indeed.
BMW used to win comparisons NOT because it was the fastest accelerating car, NOT because it was the grippiest car, NOT because it was the most spacious car but BECAUSE of its legendary "feel" and driving engagement.
Number crunching and splitting hairs over a few fractions of lap times, skidpad G's, 0-60, 1/4 mile trap speeds was best left to the losers in Lexus/Infiniti/Audi/Mercedes.
BMW drivers KNEW they had the most connected, most fun to drive car in the market. The Proof, as they say, was in the pudding : just get behind the wheel of a BMW and let the driving experience speak for itself.
Now?
Review after review lambast the BMW for abandoning its enthusiast roots in order to chase market share, with the nett result of BMWs losing their famed road-driver-car connectedness. And BMW fans are forced to resort to arguments like 0-60, torque, lap times and skidpad to prop up their increasingly hollow claim of being "drivers' cars".
Worse when they start talking about "curb appeal" and "practicality" as daily-drivers in order to shore up the F30/F10 series of sedans.
Let us all take a moment of silence and mark a watershed point : when BMW died as an enthusiast icon and was reborn as a masterpiece in mass-marketing.
Bavarian Marketing Works indeed.
Last edited by natnut; 07-25-13 at 08:02 AM.
07-25-13, 08:14 AM
#11
The BMW video @ 5'26" says:
"I should never be able to put the words BMW and floaty in the same sentence, but in the F30, it's true".
Nice to hear that it confirms my test drive opinion that the BMW F30 is too floaty, ponderous and insecure at the limit, and that it needs firmer dampers [nee shock absorbers].
I've always said that Lexus' 3.5 lacks bottom end punch.
I'd expect the 3.5 to have "relatively" more bottom end torque compared to the 2.5.
The 2.5 is also much smoother and quieter than the 3.5.
So I ended up purchasing an IS250 F Sport for the missus.
Personally, my missus and I both find the F Sport front end much more attractive than the base model.
And the F Sport in the 3IS rides so well; not firm like the F Sport in the 4GS at all.
The Youtube video also says that the 3IS does nothing exceptionally well, but is a good alrounder, and that's what I based my decision on too.
The 3IS does not have the biggest badge, nor the most conventional looks, nor the most spacious cabin, nor the most straight line performance, but the 3IS does everything well, and is a competent alrounder.
While the BMW F30 has the biggest badge, most conventional looks, the most spacious cabin, and the most straight line performance, the slight turbo lag and turbo boom is still questionable for atmospheric lovers; so too is the floatiness at the limit - and the worst aspect is that the reliability is woeful.
Feel is everything, because no one actually times their car 0-60, nor do they carry a G-force meter around, nor do they measure lap times.
True, the new 3IS feels slower than my old 2IS in both straight line and around corners, but cars naturally get bigger and heavier with successive models.
Another reason why 3IS feels slower is because of the more compliant and more supple suspension.
I find that cars with firmer suspension feel faster than what they really are...
"I should never be able to put the words BMW and floaty in the same sentence, but in the F30, it's true".
Nice to hear that it confirms my test drive opinion that the BMW F30 is too floaty, ponderous and insecure at the limit, and that it needs firmer dampers [nee shock absorbers].
I've always said that Lexus' 3.5 lacks bottom end punch.
I'd expect the 3.5 to have "relatively" more bottom end torque compared to the 2.5.
The 2.5 is also much smoother and quieter than the 3.5.
So I ended up purchasing an IS250 F Sport for the missus.
Personally, my missus and I both find the F Sport front end much more attractive than the base model.
And the F Sport in the 3IS rides so well; not firm like the F Sport in the 4GS at all.
The Youtube video also says that the 3IS does nothing exceptionally well, but is a good alrounder, and that's what I based my decision on too.
The 3IS does not have the biggest badge, nor the most conventional looks, nor the most spacious cabin, nor the most straight line performance, but the 3IS does everything well, and is a competent alrounder.
While the BMW F30 has the biggest badge, most conventional looks, the most spacious cabin, and the most straight line performance, the slight turbo lag and turbo boom is still questionable for atmospheric lovers; so too is the floatiness at the limit - and the worst aspect is that the reliability is woeful.
Feel is everything, because no one actually times their car 0-60, nor do they carry a G-force meter around, nor do they measure lap times.
True, the new 3IS feels slower than my old 2IS in both straight line and around corners, but cars naturally get bigger and heavier with successive models.
Another reason why 3IS feels slower is because of the more compliant and more supple suspension.
I find that cars with firmer suspension feel faster than what they really are...
07-25-13, 08:16 AM
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Again, this is all about "feel". I'm too lazy to search - any evidence of IS350 beating 335i on the track (i.e making faster laps) WITH TIMES to prove?? Until then I have a very hard time believing in Lexus superior handling. Digits of slalom and grip, etc on paper mean nothing...
Actually, the 335i usually wins the cornering objective stats over the 3IS. It simply wouldn't be much of a comparison in an actual road course. The 328i is probably better matched against the IS 350 on a road course. Lexus is usually pretty resilient in the face of criticism. I;m sure they'll come up with something for their engine. They certainly did something about their suspension. Will it be 6 more years for IS folks to get more HP? Who knows. Maybe the HP war in this class is slowing down.
07-25-13, 08:30 AM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Look at Cadillac, a few years ago everybody hated their new design sense, but now that they've got it down its a different thing.
07-25-13, 08:50 AM
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The BMW video @ 5'26" says:
"I should never be able to put the words BMW and floaty in the same sentence, but in the F30, it's true".
Nice to hear that it confirms my test drive opinion that the BMW F30 is too floaty, ponderous and insecure at the limit, and that it needs firmer dampers [nee shock absorbers].
I've always said that Lexus' 3.5 lacks bottom end punch.
I'd expect the 3.5 to have "relatively" more bottom end torque compared to the 2.5.
The 2.5 is also much smoother and quieter than the 3.5.
So I ended up purchasing an IS250 F Sport for the missus.
Personally, my missus and I both find the F Sport front end much more attractive than the base model.
And the F Sport in the 3IS rides so well; not firm like the F Sport in the 4GS at all.
The Youtube video also says that the 3IS does nothing exceptionally well, but is a good alrounder, and that's what I based my decision on too.
The 3IS does not have the biggest badge, nor the most conventional looks, nor the most spacious cabin, nor the most straight line performance, but the 3IS does everything well, and is a competent alrounder.
While the BMW F30 has the biggest badge, most conventional looks, the most spacious cabin, and the most straight line performance, the slight turbo lag and turbo boom is still questionable for atmospheric lovers; so too is the floatiness at the limit - and the worst aspect is that the reliability is woeful.
Feel is everything, because no one actually times their car 0-60, nor do they carry a G-force meter around, nor do they measure lap times.
True, the new 3IS feels slower than my old 2IS in both straight line and around corners, but cars naturally get bigger and heavier with successive models.
Another reason why 3IS feels slower is because of the more compliant and more supple suspension.
I find that cars with firmer suspension feel faster than what they really are...
"I should never be able to put the words BMW and floaty in the same sentence, but in the F30, it's true".
Nice to hear that it confirms my test drive opinion that the BMW F30 is too floaty, ponderous and insecure at the limit, and that it needs firmer dampers [nee shock absorbers].
I've always said that Lexus' 3.5 lacks bottom end punch.
I'd expect the 3.5 to have "relatively" more bottom end torque compared to the 2.5.
The 2.5 is also much smoother and quieter than the 3.5.
So I ended up purchasing an IS250 F Sport for the missus.
Personally, my missus and I both find the F Sport front end much more attractive than the base model.
And the F Sport in the 3IS rides so well; not firm like the F Sport in the 4GS at all.
The Youtube video also says that the 3IS does nothing exceptionally well, but is a good alrounder, and that's what I based my decision on too.
The 3IS does not have the biggest badge, nor the most conventional looks, nor the most spacious cabin, nor the most straight line performance, but the 3IS does everything well, and is a competent alrounder.
While the BMW F30 has the biggest badge, most conventional looks, the most spacious cabin, and the most straight line performance, the slight turbo lag and turbo boom is still questionable for atmospheric lovers; so too is the floatiness at the limit - and the worst aspect is that the reliability is woeful.
Feel is everything, because no one actually times their car 0-60, nor do they carry a G-force meter around, nor do they measure lap times.
True, the new 3IS feels slower than my old 2IS in both straight line and around corners, but cars naturally get bigger and heavier with successive models.
Another reason why 3IS feels slower is because of the more compliant and more supple suspension.
I find that cars with firmer suspension feel faster than what they really are...
07-25-13, 08:52 AM
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Thats the breaks when you're trying to create something thats aggressive and distinctive. I remember back when we first saw pics of the 3IS someone posted an interview with the chief designer or something like that, it was in Japanese translated to English. He said it then, they are setting out to create a unique distinctive persona for Lexus and that some people would hate it, and thats okay. You never make something that some people passionately love without making something that some people hate.
Look at Cadillac, a few years ago everybody hated their new design sense, but now that they've got it down its a different thing.
Look at Cadillac, a few years ago everybody hated their new design sense, but now that they've got it down its a different thing.