natnut

Again you are comparing the previous generation IS vs your current 335i. Which makes your experience invalid since the topic of discussion is the PRESENT generation IS vs the current generation 3 series.

Did you own the current gen IS? No and the current suspension of the new IS, especially with adaptive suspension, is a revelation. All you can truthfully say is that in YOUR experience, the past gen IS didn't handle as well as the current 3.

Go read the major publications and you'll see that the new IS and 3 have reversed positions when it comes to handling.

peteharvey

IMO the old 2IS actually handled much better than the current 335i.
The old 2IS actually had much quicker turn-in, and higher terminal grip than the current 335i.
The only downside of the old 2IS was that the first generation electric power steering had an artificial feel.
The biggest problem with current generation 335i is not so much the size and weight, but the damping on the standard models are too soft/loose and insecure compared to the damping on the equivalent 2IS models.
The main fantastic feature of the current 335i is the straight-line power and acceleration...

Glashub

Wow! Just wow! That is so condescending. BMW's of all types are a dime a dozen in LA primarily because of the loose and liberal lease agreements. As Dan Neil once roughly wrote -- "Thanks to the BMW lease agreements anyone with a big enough welfare check can now drive a BMW."

John510

I think it's funny how the BMW nut swingers come on here to say how great their car is. Last I checked this was club lexus not club BMW.

Stillhart

Sorry, but what's condescending about that? The IS is significantly cheaper (MSRP) and has significantly lower cost of ownership over the long haul. It makes sense that if price were the prime factor, the IS would be the best choice.

As far as I can tell, you're getting offended that someone said BMW is more expensive than Lexus. I mean, I get that you love your Lexus, and I appreciate your passion for your car, but isn't the fact that it's cheaper actually a good thing?

Ramon

Agreed. It's not condescending to say a cheaper car is cheaper or a more expensive car is more expensive.

I'm going to change it up a bit just to illustrate how there is nothing at all condescending about that post...


If price is a serious issue, go with the IS 250 and never look back. Lexus had (in my eyes) a bit of a timeless sentimental place in my heart from when I owned an ES in college.

If price is not that serious of an issue, then the IS 350 will satisfy every craving you have for performance- and then some.

Again, if price is an issue, play it safe and enjoy the IS 250. It has total peace of mind.

Stillhart

If you can recommend a good car forum where I can get opinions from people who have driven Lexuses (Lexii?) and BMW's, that isn't affiliated with either, I'll happily go ask over there. Unfortunately, I have to post the same question to both sides and then try to sort the useful information from the chaff. It's not easy to do and people getting super defensive about the smallest comments makes it a trying process.

I asked for opinions. It's okay for someone to say they like the BMW without it making the IS any less of a car. Why does that make them a "nut swinger"?? Sometimes these forums (both this and the BMW ones) remind me of the Penny Arcade where Gabe declares "This is BS! I'm going onto the internet to find people who agree with me!"

Anyways, I do truly appreciate all the genuine help that's been offered to me. I apologize if I've offended anyone by deciding that I like driving the BMW 335 more than the Lexus IS350. I don't mean to imply that the IS is a bad car in any way. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I like the Lexus more in my brain, but my other body parts prefer the 335. Hopefully everyone can still be friends.

Glashub

"If price is a serious issue, go with the IS 350 and never look back. If price is not that serious of an issue, then the 335i will satisfy every craving you have for performance."

That is condescending. Run it by someone and ask them, okay? It basically say's that if you're not of the lofty financial standards required for BMW ownership and money is a problem for you -- then stay with the Lexus. Price is not a serious issue for me and I still chose a Lexus. I repeat it requires very little to lease a BMW.

Stillhart

I still don't see it.

Perhaps you're failing to consider the context of the post, which is in response to my dilemma of which car to purchase. He's not directing it at you, but at the person who has said he prefers the performance of the BMW but it's pretty pricey so it's a tough decision (i.e. me).

Ramon

What he said, clearly does not apply to you, so I don't understand why you're so upset about it. Leasing doesn't work for everyone and there WILL be people out there who can swing an IS350 payment but not a 335 payment.

I just don't understand the issue here. Would it have made you feel better if he added a disclaimer that reads "If you can afford either car and decide on the IS, this does not apply to you, please disregard" ???

peteharvey

In the past, the BM's did satisfy every performance craving, however these days, that is no longer true.

These days, both the 5 Series, and the 3 Series are very loosely suspended.
Last year, I test drove an Audi A6 3.0 V6 Supercharged AWD several times, and its suspension is pretty loose too.
These days, the equivalent Lexus 3IS and 4GS have a better handling/ride balance than the 5 and 3 Series in particular - the latter of which is too loosely damped, and floating all over the place.

Overall, I'd say each marque has its own individual set of strengths and weaknesses, and go with whichever set of strengths and weaknesses suits the individual tastes....

natnut

The problem isn't that jbayse99 is condescending.

It's that he's talking out of his hat.

The topic is the 2014 IS vs the 2014 3 series but here he goes waxing lyrical about his experiences with the 2010 IS.

How is that in any way relevant to the present discussion? Like John150 put it so eloquently, seems like someone has a serious case of BMW nut swinger syndrome.

dsadsauser

Don't open this can of worms again, please. The 3IS does not out handle the 335i. It may have better feel, but it can not negotiate any actual road course faster than a 335i. Just stop there. Wait until the 3IS does a Lightning Lap, or wins a course in a comparison. Until then, let it be.

Yes, I spoke about MY experience. Never did i say I drove the 3IS, I only commented on things I know to be true- such as price. OP stated he drove the 3IS and 335i.

Because I did actually own an IS, which was a great car and was problem free for me. However, I, too, was in lust with the 335i and bought it because the test-drives blew me away. I could have waited for the 3IS, but I did not. You, however, never owned either of the two cars. So why are you on this thread again?


Again, you own an 11 year old car. What insight do you have to bring to the table for a potential buyer other than regurgitating car magazines? I'm sure OP can read fine on his own.

peteharvey

I recently test drove both the 335i and the 3IS.
I purchased the 3IS.
I own the old 2IS too.

The 335i has a bigger badge, and more conventional looks.
The 335i has a slightly taller cabin.
The 335i has very good straight-line power, and a lovely ride.

However, the 335i has the typical slight turbo lag, and the typical turbo boom torque curve.
The 335i that I test drove is just the standard suspension, and though it rides better than any other 3 Series in the past, it is too floaty around corners, and the car lacks terminal grip, as a result of being so loosely suspended.

The 3IS350 is not as accelerative, but it has instant engine response, and a flatter more conventional naturally aspirated torque curve.
The 3IS feels like it has more terminal grip, and is much more stable and better damped around corners than the 335i.

I am too busy, so I haven't been following journalist articles these days.
I also do not have a lateral acceleration meter.
I'm not sure about the actual maximum and terminal acceleration around the corner, but I'm positive that the 3IS is well damped, while the 335i feels like it's floating all over the place around corners.

Although the 3IS corners well, the 3IS also rides superbly.
The 335i has a floaty ride.

The 3IS has somehow become BMW in the chassis, while the 335i has become Japanese in the chassis.

I think both the new 335i and the new 3IS are good, but in different ways.
Neither cars are perfect.
It's just horses for courses.
Go with whichever car that meets your priorities best.

If you ask me to compare the old 2005-2012 3 Series with the old 2006-2013 2IS - things were different back then.
The old 2IS first gen electric power steering had no feel.
The old 2IS was a heavier car than the old 3 Series, so the 2IS had less terminal grip.
The old 2IS had a firmish ride which many journalists describes as a busy ride etc, whereas the old 2005-12 3 Series rode beautifully.

If you ask me which is the best handling compact saloon ever, I'd have to say the original 1st generation 2000-2006 1IS.
That 1IS was small.
It was light.
Wasn't spacious, and didn't have a good ride, but its handling was "go cart-like"!
The steering was the most incredible ever.
The steering had a very direct ratio; didn't have to turn the steering wheel much at all.
The car changed directions most rapidly, and most instantly.
The hydraulic power steering had excellent feel.
Amazingly, there was no self-centering of the steering wheel, or very little self-centering.
Because the car was so small and light, it had the most fabulous terminal grip ever.
The 1st gen IS had the most throttle controllable power oversteer ever; you could really control the tail with the throttle more than any other car!
The 1998-2005 3 Series was very good too, but it could not match the go-kart like characteristics of the smaller and lighter first gen IS.
However, the 1998-2005 3 Series had a superb ride, where the 2000-2006 1IS was too firm.

Over the generations, the 3 Series has become bigger and heavier, with less grip, more interior space, a better ride, but is presently floatier than ever.
For the very first time, I would rate the current 3 Series base model as not being at the pinnacle of motor sports.
The only way we can improve the handling of the new 3 Series is to option the M Sports pack, but I personally avoid because the ride deteriorates markedly.

I never got to drove the original 3 Series coupe of the 1970's, nor the first 4 door 3 Series of the 1980's, however journalist reports often say that they were the smallest, lightest, and best handling of the 3 Series, however back then, they used semi-trailing arm rear suspension which resulted in a dangerous and twitchy rear end.
Only in the 1990's did the 3 Series receive multi-link rear suspension to improve rear end grip, to give much more throttle control to the rear end.
It was actually Mercedes who started it all with the multi-link rear suspension used in the 1986 190E.

For best handling, we want:
- Quick changes in direction.
- Good steering feel/feedback.
- Hi terminal grip.
- A sense of security at the limit, both in terms of floatiness/body control, and in terms of secure grip, with a gentle and progressive breakaway of traction.
What we don't want is the front end or rear end, suddenly snapping out, to increase the radius of curvature, to lower the lateral acceleration force, to achieve stability.
- At the limit, we also want a degree of throttle steer, with input of the throttle resulting in controllable snapping out of the tail.
The 3 Series has progressively lost all this over the generations, getting bigger and bigger, heavier and heavier.
Presently, the 3IS is better.

If you ask me which is better handling: the old 2005-2012 3 Series, or the new 2013 3IS?
I'd have to say the old 2005-2012 3 Series was better handling. Much better too.
The old 3 Series is smaller and lighter, and quicker on its feet, with faster changes in direction, and more terminal grip, and much more damping/body control at the limits of adhesion.
But then, many would say that comparing a 2005-12 3 Series with the all new 2013 3IS is unfair...

dsadsauser

^ ^ ^ I'd quote that, but I want to save cyberspace.

Dude, what's with your "reviews"... They all say the same thing. I see what you are saying. Although you drove the base model 335i. Suspension-wise, yeah, it is not nearly as agile. Upgrading to the sport suspension (called Adaptive M Chassis) or even going for the best (Dynamic Handling package w/ Variable Assist) completely changes the game. That is why the 335i won the most recent MT competition between the S4/ATS/3IS (non-F) I have no clue, though, how you came to this conclusion:

Having OWNED both the 2IS and 335i, the 2IS handled nowhere near as well. For one thing, the seating position in the 2IS felt like a golf cart, versus the 335i which feels more like my old S2000. I could take this hairpin turn near my house at 30 MPH without losing grip in the 2IS. In my 335i, I can do this at 37 MPH (HUD helps me keep tabs). The precision in the 335i just feels superior. It is immediately noticeable in my opinion. The 2IS felt almost as fast as the 335i, though. I took it to the drag strip and ran a 13.6@ 102 on a HOT day- pretty damn good. I don't know why all the 3ISs do it in the 14s. There's no way the tranny slows it that much. Bad drivers early on?